Unpopular opinion: The human elements on the TFs designs were great.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Nemesis Otaku, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. Nemesis Otaku

    Nemesis Otaku I love both Nemesis Prime and Anime!

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    I know not many people like facial hair on TFs, but I do. Many people complain how the TFs are only characterized as robots, but I feel like a TF having a trench coat, or a belly, or a beard, just makes the character have a sense of character. I prefer the humanoid look over the original trilogy look. Don't get me wrong, I love the original trilogy's look, especially DOTM, but I just prefer the humanized look that AOE and TLK had going on.
     
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  2. Galva Prime

    Galva Prime Well-Known Member

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    I think a blend of the two works best. Sentinel and Lockdown I think are good examples. I don’t have a problem with human-like faces, Crosshairs looks robotic but not bestial or insectoid, but I think some of the designs go so far as to almost not look robotic at all (Hound and Daytrader, even without the beards have cartoonish features rather than something that is obviously identifiable as mechanical). I like the more humanoid proportions of the new designs, and though I’ve made allowances for some (the KSI robots transform in such a way that doesn’t require vehicle parts to be present in robot mode), I have to agree with many people that it’s the placement of the vehicle parts that make the designs interesting and, more importantly, recognisable as transformers. The new designs seem to just add a couple of wheels or headlights on and that’s pretty much it (and sometimes even those parts come from a previous alt mode...).

    But Transformers as a whole has featured many different styles, and it’s good that there is room for all of them :) 
     
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  3. Necrisha

    Necrisha Creative, vindictive-possibly a deception.

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    Actually I find Crosshairs face reminiscent of a leprechaun caricature sans facial hair, but I didn't pick up on that till watching American Gods and noting Mad Sweeney's attitude was similar in a very vague way.
     
  4. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    I feel that AoE and The Last Failure went too far with the whole "make the alien robots look human!" aspect. I mean, they already look human simply by way of being majorly bipedal, being in reality designed from human stature in the first place, but trying to make them seem more human sort of trivializes the entire point of them being aliens if they're just going to end up being giant metal humans in the end more than aliens who actually look like they shapeshift into vehicles and whatnot.

    For example, you mention a belly or beer gut. The way DOTM Leadfoot did it, much in the way Animated Ratchet does, by using the entire front end portion of the vehicle as a gut, is perfect. AoE/TF5 Hound is just lazy because it's non-specific as to what part of the vehicle actually is his belly. It's just random mechanical garbage shoved in there and the audience is supposed to believe that somehow becomes part of the missile truck.

    The problem with AoE and The Last Failure designs is that they seem to believe that kibble or even any major discernable part of the alt. mode beyond a wheel or the front nose detail is too much. It's like they've completely forgotten that the alt. modes are the same as the robot bodies, just with parts in different places. Mass shifting is one kind of sin, but magically making parts appear and disappear between forms is an even worse one.
     
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  5. Nemesis Otaku

    Nemesis Otaku I love both Nemesis Prime and Anime!

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    Ah. Well, I get that. I'll admit that the older I get the more I start to critique the film. And yeah, I feel like the kibble needs to be more noticeable and involved in the slicker designs.
     
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  6. Galvatross

    Galvatross Swamp Lord Shrek-traoridinairre! Veteran

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    Agreed fully!

    I love the first trilogy designs, but I think many fans forget how much the first trilogy designs were mocked (and indeed how much the first trilogy was ripped apart on many fronts), and how many people wanted more human-like designs and less in the way of insectoid Decepticons and grey scrap metal. Now the designs are generally brighter and/or more expressive.

    And truth be told, many of the first trilogy's designs were not visually expressive. Transformers are alien robots that think and feel. We should hear that not only in their voices, but also in their visual expressions.

    I'm not saying every character needs to be human-like if the robot is meant to be stoic or brutish. Guys like Soundwave and Shockwave don't need visual expressions; the former is supposed to be somewhat stoic, and the other should be emotionless, or at the very least show emotions sparingly.

    However, I do think most of the main cast should have visually expressive designs. The core robot cast of AoE includes Optimus, the Pathetic Dirty Foursome, Lockdown, and Galvatron, and all of these have visually expressive designs (minus perhaps Bumblebee) and voice performances that make them feel like thinking, feeling beings. TLK Megatron is also great. If anything, I wish Hot Rod had a face more like Crosshairs.

    I'm fine with most of the supporting or background robots not being visually expressive. The Dinobots and Guardian Knights are fine as knight-like warriors. Stinger and company are soulless drones. The Steeljaws and Stupid Drones are alien creatures on Lockdown's ship, and even then the Stupid Drones are visually expressive in their own ways with those strange, cartoon-like eyes and mouths that appear to be made of wire.
     
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  7. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

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    Oh, yeah! I support you! I enjoy AOE TFs look a lot! Although, yeah, I also very love their OT look too! I even often notice on myself, that I imagine TFs in diffent look, depending on my own mood:)  AOE look is more passionate and OT look is more calmly for me (don't know, why). I repeated many times, that TFs just absorbed our culture and changed their look unintentionally, like we do, when move to another country (start to wear different clothes, eat different food, speak differently). Also, I recently understood, that it would be unfair to TFs to configure their body only from exact car parts. They can split, move convert them, as they want - so they can make their look as styled and awesome, as they want - it just reflects their taste and attitude to life. Hound is old commando, Crossy is glossy:lol , Drift is romantic haiku lover, Bumblebee is naughty badass, Optimus is glorious, dazzling... Their bodies reflect it like our clothes, hairs, etc. Possibly, when they came to the Earth, they didn't think about their look at all, like Decepticons do it, but after living on Earth near humans, they took our attitude to the style. That's not bad, we understand each other better!
     
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  8. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

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    That's very bad sign. It means you absorb stereotypes and lose your own opinion. That's not age and logic, dude - many stereotypes are super ridiculous and not logic and people still folow them. That's the instict of herd - you want to be like others to be well perceived by herd. As an evidence for my words, look at this forum - it has several tens of wise and sane not young people, who are far from stereotypes and very like TF Movies! Reading their posts is just an ejoyment. Also, stereotypic people are very needed to politicians;) 
     
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  9. YellowCorvette

    YellowCorvette Raise Your Flag!!

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    My problem with the post-DOTM characr designs aren't really that they're look way too humanoid; It's the fact that they didn't even look like they can transforms into anything, which is the point of a TRANSFORMER. I never have any problem with the how the characters looks in the pre-AOE movies, with all of those four eyed look at all.

    This is even more apparent on characters like AOE/TLK Optimus and Hound. Aside from having the robot mode to be the same colour scheme with vehicle mode and some pipes and tires around the body, they looks more like metal human statues with vehicle parts slapped on them.
     
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  10. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    I fail to see how those knights of Iacon clad in fantasy plate armors with bits of chainmail (chain link armor on an alien space tech level robot...lolwutWHAT?) could even transform into anything beastlike because sure as heck they did not have ANY space dragon kibble on themselves nor even clawed hands or feet.
     
  11. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

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    You must look into third-party forum:lol 
     
  12. Galvatross

    Galvatross Swamp Lord Shrek-traoridinairre! Veteran

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    Unpopular opinion here: The purpose of a Transformer is not whether you can tell what they transform into. The purpose is that they transform regardless of alt mode kibble.

    As a Transformers fan of a couple decades, the amount of importance I place in the presence or absence of alt mode kibble is ZERO. I place it in the same category as FIRRIB or whether Cyclonus is Bombshell or Thundercracker. I'm not saying other fans can't have a preference, but it's of zero importance to me. I am fine with one or the other or a mix of both.

    Not all G1 characters had alt mode kibble. Not all first trilogy robots had alt mode kibble. G1 Megatron, G1 Galvatron, 2007 Megatron, G1 Soundwave, the Dreads, Laserbeak, Brains, that Chicago Decepticon vaporizing humans who transforms into a pick-up, Reedman, the Driller, and the Fallen. A lot of the G1 Transformers' alt mode kibble was extremely hard to discern beyond color. Many of the first trilogy Decepticons were made of gray, randomly-shaped pieces of metal. Do the alt mode kibble fans complain about them?

    Some robots in the first trilogy didn't even transform, like the Fallen and Ravage and Shockwave and RotF Soundwave and Devcon and Driller. Have I ever seen much complaining about that? Nope. Perfectly fine.

    However, when specific robots in AoE or TLK don't transform or lack alt mode kibble? Suddenly unacceptable for some reason nobody is able to adequately articulate. Especially given the later robot designs have usually been more colorful and less scrap metallic.

    In some, not most, but some, cases it's reversed. Dreadbot has more alt mode kibble than his DotM counterpart.

    I'm not saying people can't have a preference for one type of design over the other. I'm just saying people should be consistent if they do have a preference, and that not everyone does care about how much alt mode kibble there is.
     
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  13. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Anthony Hopkins with a submachine gun. 'Nuff said!

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    His fusion cannon is actually the scope of the handgun, so yes, that's kibble. Additionally, in some depictions, the actual barrel of the handgun can be seen behind his shoulder.

    His cannon formed the gun emplacement's barrel and his torso was obviously the main chamber of the cannon (given all you did was just put the gun on top of his head...)

    I'll concede that point if only because his cybertronian mode is hard to describe beyond "it flies"

    Seriously? You're literally telling me that one of the most famous transformers of all time because his chest was the tape deck door and he could shoot tapes out of himself by pressing the door open switch on his shoulder, didn't have an obvious alt. mode?

    Hard to tell on-screen because they were painted all black, but the official art gives them kibble.

    [​IMG]

    That was less stylistic choice and more "how do we give him the kibble of a pink midget Bumblebee, a TV screen/wired peripherals, and anything else he may turn into" - it should be noted that he does not turn into the things his toys do, which are some kind of hoverbike (HA) and a fictional VTOL aircraft (deluxe)

    I'll give you those.

    Because A) he didn't have and alt. mode, and B) he was more of a combiner being made up of a shitload of smaller insecticon like bots.

    It didn't have an alt.mode either.

    Technically, he actually does...it's just that his Alt. mode is GARBAGE.

    [​IMG]

    You could still tell what they turned into, though. Brawl has tank treads and the tank guns:
    [​IMG]

    Blackout had the entire rotor assembly on his back (which he could detach as a melee weapon) and a split-cockpit chest
    [​IMG]

    Bonecrusher was a bit more abstract (especially given the minesweeper arm was modified to be far more menacing than the actual stock arm), but you can still tell he turns into a military vehicle of some sort with the tan color and window frames on the shoulders.
    [​IMG]

    Starscream we often call a dorito, but he's also still obviously a jet, what with the triangular "wing" shapes on his back and the signature cockpit chest.
    [​IMG]

    Barricade needs no example because he had a deformed Saleen Mustang chest and his shoulders promimently displayed "POLICE" on them, with the associated emergency response markings on the car panels.

    Frenzy is just whatever given his head turned into a cellphone somehow.

    - Fallen didn't really NEED to transform (though they probably could have bullshitted it like they did in the toys)
    - Ravage actually did transform. Remember when Soundwave launches him into Earth's atmosphere from space? THAT was his alt. mode - or "re-entry" mode as the deluxe toy put it.
    - I'll give you Shockwave even though his voyager toy's tank mode actually is pretty neat
    - that ALSO was Soundwave's alt. mode, or did you somehow not realize his robot mode in the toys looked nothing like he did in the films while his alt. mode (a cybertronian satellite or something) did?
    - who the hell was Devcon again?
    - THE DRILLER WAS NOT A TRANSFORMER.

    Because the entire point of transformers is the fact they shapeshift, so for the sake of visual appeal they need to look the part. Because that establishes a connection to the alt. mode as an extension of their character, instead of just a prop they magically become. It sets in-universe boundaries that the later two films pissed all over because somehow Drift can turn into a helicopter without needing any shred of helicopter kibble, among other blatantly bad examples.
     
  14. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally

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    Oh, true! @Autobot Burnout it is just for you:lol  Today you are critisizing one thing and tomorrow you praise it. It all depends on what's profitable for you today.
     
  15. Galvatross

    Galvatross Swamp Lord Shrek-traoridinairre! Veteran

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    There's a difference between a gun part becoming a gun and a gun part being visible on the robot's body.

    Yes, I am, because a robot ejecting cassettes is not the same thing as transforming into a radio or cassette player. Most modern cars themselves have some sort of audio media player. Soundwave could transform into a vehicle or mechanical animal and still eject his minions.

    And official artwork =/= the finished movie.

    And we can tell that from the movie how exactly?

    Did I say all? I said "many." There's a difference. Of course Brawl and Starscream and some others had alt mode kibble. I'm not denying that.

    So why is it okay for some characters but not others? What criteria are we using here?

    I'm not saying the Fallen needed to transform either. Frankly, I agree with you due to him being this bizarre, almost supernatural being, but I think if not every character needs to transform in one film, then not every Transformer needs to transform in another film either.

    Technically correct, but that's no more similar to traditional transformations than, well, some other transformations people complain about.

    The Cloverfield-looking Decepticon.

    I understand that, but there are some fans (Not talking about you) who will complain about the recent films featuring, say, Cogman because he never transforms, but if the first trilogy can have a Driller, then the recent films can have Cogman and Steeljaws and what not.

    The later films didn't piss on jack squat. Transformations have always cheated. Not that I have a problem with that - these complex transformations aren't exactly real-world feasible - so some cheating is inevitable.

    Do any of the alt modes in all five movies have seams or joints where the real vehicles' exteriors would break-up? No. That would make for an awful disguise. However, unless Transformers had the absolute simplest of transformations (like that Turkish video), then their alt modes would have very visible cracks and seams where their exteriors break-up during transformation.

    If anything, Transformium actually helps solve this, regardless of what one thinks of the KSI transformations. If Transformers were made of known metallic elements, compounds, and alloys they wouldn't be able to cover up seams where their exteriors break up. However, by being made of a fictional, programmable metal, Transformers can rearrange their metal molecules in such a way to reflect light, adapt their engineering to new alt modes, adapt their textures (metal, rust, glass, rubber, plastic, leather, etc.) to match their alt modes, and appear seamless in vehicle mode. It also explains how they are able to incorporate insignias and writing and custom paint jobs in their Earth alternate modes.

    Keep in mind I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having a preference, but if people are going to rip apart the recent designs that lack kibble, then they should at least be consistent and not make excuses for the first trilogy doing the same thing in many instances. Why can Frenzy and Laserbeak get free passes due to having a multiple alternate modes but Drift's design get ripped apart, especially when Drift at least has some kibble from one of his alternate modes? I can't say that for Frenzy and Laserbeak. I wouldn't expect any multi-changing Transformers character to incorporate kibble on-screen from more than one alternate mode. The very existence of multi-changers in live action is going to result in some alt modes not getting much, if any, kibble in robot mode.

    I'm not complaining about either the earlier or newer designs. I love most all of them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
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  16. Seth Sunthay

    Seth Sunthay ElusoryMonk

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    Exactly
     

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