The only reason the Autobots were able to get as far as they did was because of the ELEMENT OF FUCKING SURPRISE!

Chicago was the fortified position. That's why they immediately get shot at when they try to enter, and no aircraft can get any intel.

It's pointless because like in the above response the Decpeticons are shown to be prepared for a major attack.

So what, that didn't win the battle.

No, they didn't. You seem to be forgetting that Blackout was being hammered by the F-22s. You know, AIR SUPPORT!

You can't paratroop in if the Decepticons shoot down your planes. They were lucky they had the wing suits.

Yeah, so what?

 

Wow... First this is just a thread where someone said "This is my unpopular opinion".

Now I'm looking through posts that I couldn't care less about and it's bringing back flashbacks to the past.

 

But if Chicago doesn't happen because the humans said "no" to forcing the Autobots off planet, then why do they need the element of surprise anyway? The fact they are even still around is enough to worry Sentinel.

And if Chicago does happen because Sentinel actually isn't that worried about the Autobots posing a threat, then the element of surprise wouldn't have helped the Autobots anyway.

Now I'm the one asking if you've even seen the film, because this is the order of events:

- Sentinel steals the pillars from DC
- Sentinel makes the broadcast demanding Autobots be kicked off the planet
- Autobots fly into the sky, Starscream destroys the shuttle and presumably kills them all
- Sentinel is shown arriving in Chicago.

Now, if the Autobots never fly into the sky to get blown up, then Sentinel is never in a fortified Chicago.

And how exactly is that going to stop Optimus Prime from, I dunno, flying in with his trailer flight pack with big-ass guns to blow up all the fighters?

It just proved you wrong in that you can only take down heavy armor with heavy armor.

I wouldn't call getting hit by two missiles "hammered". But you are right in that the F-22's do contribute to his death.

However, it also does prove my point about humans being a distraction - Blackout wasn't exactly able to DO a whole lot to that group of humans after he noticed the laser pointer on him. Additionally, I think the kill shot is Lennox shooting the 'nade up Blackout's crotch where it detonates in his chest.

Did you completely just skip everything I wrote and focused only on the WWII crap? I'm not saying they need to parachute into the city - THERE IS LITERALLY A NETWORK OF TUNNELS UNDER THE CITY THEY CAN USE INSTEAD. You refuse to acknowledge that Chicago's subway system even exists, instead going after extraneous stuff in my posts to focus on instead. I've been saying they can simply send in teams through the tunnels, which the Decepticons have no possibility of being able to control (and probably aren't even aware of), and sabotage the pillar right under their noses. You've instead whined about how the Decepticons have heavy weapons and air dominance...without even acknowledging they have no control over the underground infrastructure.

You tried to use my argument against me to defuse a point I brought up to dismantle your argument.

 

But you see, that it follows DotM is why it makes sense to me. Much more than if it were to follow, say, 2007, or be in an entirely new continuity.

The "soulless human stereotypes" Drift, Hound, and Crosshairs had more to them as characters and personalities than Sideswipe and Dino and Ratchet and Ironhide and the Wreckers. Just like in 1986, where Rodimus, Ultra Magnus, Kup, etc. had more to them as characters than the vast majority of the 1984 cast. In both instances you get robots with more to them as individuals than the more popular but more poorly executed robots they replaced in my honest opinion. I don;t hate the earlier robots by the way. I like many of them, but in both instances I think the later robots have more to them as individuals.

Most, although not all, complaints about AoE are that it's too different. If you changed the film further from the original formula, it probably would have been hated more, because most fans want something more in line with what they grew up with. AoE is not of overall worse quality than the first three in terms of narrative, character, and theme. It's just not what's comfortable and familiar to most fans, Bayverse or otherwise.

Even though I prefer AoE to the first trilogy, the difference in quality isn't astronomical. It does many little things and a few bigger things better in my opinion, but is there a huge gap in quality? Absolutely not. The difference in quality between the films is nowhere near as big as people claim.

Which is why it's the best of the films in my book, because it did the best job realistically with the circumstances it was dealt. You are correct in that there was baggage from the original trilogy, which I love by the way, and AoE uses that baggage to its advantage. New direction in story. New designs. Decepticons almost all dead? Bring in new enemies like Lockdown and Cemetery Wind, which make sense in a post-DotM universe. Megatron's head manipulating the humans. It wasn't the worst possible film; the opposite is the case. AoE was a better case scenario given the baggage of the first three films.

Here's the thing we have to understand. We both have preferences, and those preferences are not the same, nor are those preferences necessarily one of us being "right" and the other "wrong." They exist because of our experiences and our own internal characteristics as individuals. What Transformers films one enjoys or not depend on the preferences of that particular fan. Every opinion expressed by any fan is based on that fan's preferences for what a Transformers movie should be, and what those preferences are vary wildly. And it's perfectly okay to have different preferences. I just don't think it's worth getting legitimately mad when a Transformers movie or movie continuity doesn't go our way. I'll admit there were things in TLK I wasn't happy about, but it's not worth getting upset about. Nor do I think people who think TLK was good are wrong for thinking it, even if I admittedly have my issues with it and think it wasn't as good as previous films. And even TLK, while heavily flawed, still has some things in it that I think are legitimately good. Even if we don't like something, we still have to be able to see some silver lining.

I love the Dinobots, and to me, their portrayal in Age of Extinction was perfectly acceptable.

My reasons are...

1) Compared to some other fan favorites in the previous two films, they get treated pretty well. Devastator? Killed by humans, and is the subject of an immature joke. Shockwave? Dead on arrival, and gets one line of English dialogue.

The Dinobots don't talk, but they don't die, they aren't the subjects of immature humor (Drift's line of "I was expecting a giant car," is actually pretty funny without being immature.), and they kill plenty of Galvatron's drones as they should. They come to the rescue right as Hound and Bee and Cade are about to be overrun. They were meant to be the cavalry, and at that they succeed.

2) They are still giant, powerful robots with dinosaur robot modes, and they have the personalities of dinosaurs. If a Transformers film needs to get one thing about the Dinobots right, it's that the Dinobots should be like Cybertronian dinosaurs.

3) There was never any indication they were going to be the focus in terms of story. They were only depicted in trailers as being parts of action scenes. Every big budget blockbuster sells itself by showing parts of action scenes that are only a small interval of the movie. Interviews and trailers indicated that the story was going to be about Cade finding Optimus, humans and Lockdown hunting Prime, and humans exploring the metal Transformers were made of. There was zero indication the Dinobots were a major part of the story, but at least they play the role of the cavalry, and I'd much rather the Dinobots be the cavalry than the US military.

I'm not saying you do either, but I think there is a large group of fans who do, because most complaints are that "x-character is no longer present, or has changed too much." See what I mean?

Which happens in the first three films as well. Blackout? Killed entirely by humans with human technology.

Devastator? Killed by human weapons. No help from the Autobots. The other Long Haul, Scrapper, etc.? Human weapons.

Protoforms in Chicago? Killed entirely by human weapons in some instances.

Meanwhile, there is not a Transformer in all of AoE who dies entirely by human hands and with human weapons. Ratchet? Injured by humans, but also heavily damaged and finally killed by Lockdown. Stinger? Killed by Bumblebee. Lockdown? Killed by Optimus with help from humans and Bumblebee. KSI drones? Killed by Autobots, Dinobots, and Cade's alien weapon. Steeljaws? Killed by Bumblebee, or knocked off the wires of the anchors by Cade's gun, which doesn't even kill them by the way. It just knocks them to their long fall.

By the way, I really appreciate that you can say your opinions respectfully. I just think we need to keep in mind that someone enjoying or not enjoying a film is an opinion. If you don't like a film for reasons, that is fair enough. And if I like a film for reasons, that's fine, too.

I don't expect you to agree. I just hope you can understand where some of my opinions are coming from.

 

Yes they do, because like I keep saying, if the Autobots don't leave the planet, then Sentinel knows they will be coming and is prepared for them.

The Decepticons have a plan and are setting up. You don't really think they waited for Sentinel?

We don't know that would happen, he's not invulnerable. Shockwave shot him down.

You realize that was an accident, that was blind luck that they got sucked into the gunship. There's no way of knowing if that would be repeatable.

I don't know enough about the Chicago subway, how far out it goes, it may not be an option considering we see Sam getting attacked almost immediately upon entering the city. And you don't know that the Decepticons can't control the subway, they are not all massively sized.

You didn't dismantle anything. You are just rambling about not being able to shoot the pyramid from a ship. I don't care.

Like electronic said, this is getting way off topic though. So I am done.

 

Which entails what exactly? Sentinel was easily stronger than Optimus to the point of ripping off his arm - even Megatron never managed that feat - and it takes all the threat out of Sentinel's demands if his reaction to the humans saying "no" is..."well, I'll just be ready, then!"

I mean, it actually does make Sentinel look like a fool to think getting rid of the Autobots was that easy, even with Sam being bugged. He had to have suspected Prime and the others would figure out a work around and that the shuttle would be destroyed. He was literally Optimus Prime's mentor, so to not have a clue as to his mentee being able to cheat death somehow weakens his character relationship with Prime as a result.

Given how the invasion of Chicago doesn't happen until Sentinel is in Chicago, only for the rest of the Decepticons to finally get their asses there? And Sentinel is kicking Megatron around like a dog and nobody is doing anything?

Megatron was just a weak figurehead - Sentinel was the one calling the shots!

No, because Optimus Prime flying around and racking up kills on Decepticons on the ground like he's playing duck hunt with gattling guns wasn't going to be a problem no matter what, huh?

That's irrelevant. The point is that for all of its armor, for all of its armaments, the ship still got brought down by two unarmed morons pulling some wires. All that armor and weaponry is useless if it can't stop something as simple as rats rendering it a non-functional hunk of junk.

And that's my point with using the humans as a strike team - go in, fuck up the control pillar, game over for the Decepticons.

Because you don't even bother google searching for a trackage map.


all those colored lines? Subway connections into the suburbs of Chicago, far beyond city limits and beyond where the Decepticons are. And this is a 1977 map, here's a look at a more recent map of trackage in the heart of the city - and keep in mind this is just the "L" system, not the full system that runs into the suburbs.



It's a mass public transport system that runs the length of the entire city and then some. You don't need to know the exact size, you just need to know that it covers the entire city and then some.

You don't know that they are all massively sized. Decepticons like Ravage and Laserbeak appear to be unique one-offs as opposed to the cookie-cutter protoforms the Decepticons use as 99% of their forces.

Additionally, subway tunnels are CRAMPED:



Laserbeak would have real trouble fitting into the tubes and I doubt Ravage would fare much better.

The Decepticons would expect a massive attack from the surface. They wouldn't even think about the underground tunnels.

You're the one arguing that shooting a laser of doom into the sky was somehow different than shooting a different laser of doom into the sky...and then said that the railgun from the sea was not different from some conventional artillery piece on the ground to achieve the same objective.

Think it is for the best this ends here.

 

And on this among other things I'd agree fully, because AoE never promised to be this Dinobot-focused movie, but The Last Knight was specifically said to have more Dinobot screen-time than the fourth film, and they appeared much less on screen, with Scorn and Strafe not appearing at all, and none appearing in the final battle. Then again, with The Last Knight to me, as someone who loved the fourth movie, felt like the new writers wanted to ignore the last movie as much as possible. Dinobots minimized, Drift and Crosshairs and Hound all appearing much less, Knights not consistent with what Lockdown said about them, no definite answer as to whether Quintessa actually was one of the Creators, Earth and Cybertron back to being the only planets that matter again after a much bigger universe was teased, and no mention of Galvatron. AoE set up what could and should have been the best of the movies. Galvatron, Creators, and Dinobots? For me personally, it doesn't get any more exciting in Transformers than all three of those things being introduced to play larger roles in future films. Yet Galvatron played a much larger role in AoE's plot than Megatron in TLK's plot, we have much more to the Creators' motivations in AoE than we do of Quintessa's in TLK, the latter which had none, and the Dinobots get more time to shine in action in AoE than they do in TLK. Plus I loved that small core group of Autobots in AoE and the focus Prime got in AoE, and all of those were lessened, too. Yeah, the depiction of the Autobots and Optimus in AoE was probably the least traditional of all five movies, but I loved them in that movie in part for that reason.

Funny enough, I actually really like Sentinel Prime and Megatron's decline as the first trilogy goes on. I found it an interesting take on the character as well as his survival as a head and comeback as Galvatron. But that's just me. Different strokes for different folks.

And at least you were willing to give it a fair shake. In an ideal world we'd have "Five Trolls of Darkness" as a live action movie, but we don't live in an ideal world.

 

you're a brave man..they are all fun to watch that has to count for something

i see no threads about the success of 'a quiet place' (produced by bay) rest assured, had it flopped there would have been 3 or 4 threads saying "i told you so"

 

That movie's box office is pretty good so far. Paramount must be so happy.

It even outperformed the likes of Get Out and Split.

 

There was one. It didn't go well. It's not here anymore.

A Quiet Place was quite good, but there's a big difference between directing and producing.

I don't recall seeing "I told you so" threads in this forum when TMNT2 underperformed, or Horseman, or Project Almanac, or any other Bay-produced film. Nor have I seen "I told you so" threads for Bay-produced films that thrived, beyond that one previously mentioned one for A Quiet Place.

 

you are right & i agree but bay gets all the flack for the turtle films.

 

Oh totally he gets dragged, maybe to an unwarranted degree as producer, rather than director (though he did put his name on them anyway, he did the same on A Quiet Place), but no specific threads around here about them that I recall.

 

Definitely an opinion that differs to mine.

I'm glad Transformers are on a much bigger stage now but it gets 'painful' when I watch a Sci-Fi movie that is still only half-decent but is still better than most TF live-action movies e.g. Pacific Rim 2 which isn't a great movie at all.

I'm not going to rehash all the issues the movies have because they've been said to death but I really hope this upcoming Bumblebee movie is a good movie.

 

I know it's popular to "hate" on the Transformers movies by the general public, but it seems to me that the negative reaction to ROTF bled back into the first film, which really doesn't deserve that kind of reaction at all.

The first Transformers film is a genuinely exciting action movie. Keep in mind that coming out in 2007, it was way ahead of its time in terms of special effects, predating the 3D craze and the MCU. Now you have action, sci-fi, and/or comic book movies in which there is some sort of computer generation in 99% of shots (including more recent TF movies), but the team behind Transformers 1 had to meticulously plan out how they'd allocate their resources.

ROTF leaned too hard into goofiness and stupidity but I still found it enjoyable.

We've discussed the merits of AOE trying something new quite a lot on this forum, but I think a movie that really deserves a closer look is DOTM. DOTM showed that Ehren Kruger knew his stuff. In many ways, this was the film that came closer to "classic" Transformers than any of the others. It was absolutely the best use of "history with a Transformers spin" in the series, had plenty of robot screentime, and had a laundry list of classic characters in the mix. The plot was compelling for both for the scope of the Decepticons' plan (while still being able to be understood) and the personal stakes for Optimus Prime in having Sentinel as the villain. There are some really great robot-only moments here that are a treat for fans, such as the Decepticons' meeting in Africa and Optimus and Sentinel's conversation. Every Transformers got at least one memorable moment, which was nice.

 

My problem with DOTM was it suffered from the same issues as most other TF movies.

It starts out with feeling well sculpted and measured in its pace but just quickly devolves into nonsense.

Megatron was completely wasted; Shockwave and Starscream both had laughable deaths with the former more about the parachute nonsense.

The biggest issue I have with most TF movies is these are entities that have mastered high speed space travel yet somehow the US military finds a way to defeat them.

 

Never without the help of the Autobots. I'm going to guess you didn't have that problem with the Avengers though?

 

In the Avengers, the ordinary citizen really didn't take down any key villains.

In TF1 the military used sabot rounds prior to meeting the autobots and took down Blackout using these.

Also I wish any TF movie was as good as The Avengers as Transformers is my preference

 

There's only one real villian, Loki, and he survived because of plot armor. Black Widow with her standard 9mm pistols and Hawkeye with his dinky arrows take out plenty of chitauri, a space fairing army. Also Iron Man blows up the main bad guy ship with fighter launched nuclear missile.

No they didn't. Prior to meeting the Autobots Blackout takes out an entire base. Blackout doesn't get taken out until Mission City at the very end of the movie, not to mention they used F-22's in combination with the sabot rounds.

The Avengers, while an entertaining movie is massively overrated.

 

Whatever floats your boat. My opinion is , that a turd is a turd, no matter how much it's polished.