Unpopular Opinion - All 5 Films Are Good

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by DarkEnergon22, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. DarkEnergon22

    DarkEnergon22 Well-Known Member

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    The 5 movies are the end result of thousands of hours from a large group of hard working, talented and dedicated people in the film industry.

    Bay's choice to see the films events from the eyes of the everyman and family people makes the movies more relatable to the audience than the average big blockbuster.

    Arrival To Earth is unquestionably the most moving and best film score piece from the last few decades.
     
  2. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    I agree with points 1 and 3 (though 3 is debatable, there have been many iconic scores in the last ten years), with point two not so much.
     
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  3. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout War Dog

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    That doesn't necessarily mean that they are good - if anything, that's invoking the sunk cost fallacy concept. Just because a lot of time and effort went into the films doesn't mean that the final product was equal to the sum of its parts.

    Otherwise, you could say a film like Foodfight! was good purely because it had a budget of $65 million and its entire cast was pretty much well known celebrities. Except that film is the opposite of good after it spent a near decade in development hell, went from a feature film release to an under-the-radar DVD release, and the CG looks like the most primative form of CG that ever existed despite having been developed since 2003.

    The "human eye view" worked for the first film because it showed three different ways human society was responding to the presence of a new, unknown alien threat. But from every film after that, it doesn't quite work because the humans aren't surprised that alien robots are on the planet anymore. There's nothing actually that "special" about the Transformers to the point the very gimmick they are known for, transforming, is extremely downplayed. The films treat the Transformers as pretty much a nondescript extraterrestrial presence that inexplicably is the most important thing in human history that lots of people apparently forgot about...but we know next to nothing about the Transformers themselves. Like, what would a society of shapeshifting mechanical beings be like? What do they do when they aren't fighting or interacting with another species aka humans?

    The first film, even the first three were good enough to cover the human view on the alien war. Why can't we get the viewpoint from the actual main combatants in it and how it destroyed what was once essentially an advanced culture?

    [quoteArrival To Earth is unquestionably the most moving and best film score piece from the last few decades.[/QUOTE]

    While I don't disagree I fail to see how this has anything to do with the four sequels. Especially since of all five films, most people think the first was the best anyway.
     
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  4. eagc7

    eagc7 TF Movieverse fan

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    I love all 5 films
     
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  5. DOTM Bumblebee

    DOTM Bumblebee I must be some kind of nut...

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    While I don't disagree I fail to see how this has anything to do with the four sequels. Especially since of all five films, most people think the first was the best anyway.[/QUOTE]
    Darn it, OP! You made me +1 one of Burnout's posts!

    Kidding aside, I only enjoyed the odd numbered ones. The first was (I thought) a genuinely good movie that did a good job introducing the Transformers from the perspective of the human characters (though I do wish the sequels had branched into actually showing the Transformers' point of view beyond Optimus Prime). I do feel like there was potential in the sequels. Revenge of the Fallen had a larger threat and some glimpses of character for Megatron and Starscream, and a lot of cool new Decepticons (Devastator should have eaten the twins, though). However, it gets dragged down by everything that everyone has been complaining about: racial stereotypes shoved in your face, genetalia jokes, wasting characters like Arcee and Devastator, etc. Dark of the Moon had the Decepticons outright win for a while, and had a good setup for an internal conflict for Optimus. The action was good and Sentinel Prime was a good villain, but it Age of Extinction had a lot of potential that Galvatross will tell you all about, but the stuff with the human protagonists is too unpleasant and sometimes too downright uncomfortable for me to get past. The Last Knight was ridiculous, but I found it to be a fun kind of ridiculous, with notable effort by Bay to atone for previous mistakes (Vivian being a major player in the plot and all the marketing behind Izabella's character calling out his own sexism, the scene with the police officer and Cade calling out the racism in previous movies, or at least that's my interpretation, feel free to have your own). I actually felt for Optimus in this movie, and I do wish more time had been devoted to his conflict. The new Autobots were actually fun and had some okay characterization, as did the Decepticons (though I was slightly annoyed most of them were killed off before the halfway point). However, it did suffer from under-utilization of characters like Izabella and the Decepticons, and some great set ups and conflicts feeling just glanced over (Optimus becoming Nemesis Prime and Bumblebee and Hot Rod in World War II come to mind).

    I do think there is stuff to like in the movies. I like the movie version of Bumblebee, some of the designs really work for the characters (Bumblebee, Jazz, Trilogy Optimus Prime, Shockwave, and TLK Megatron come to mind), the action is superb when you can see it, and even some of the human characters are decent. However, the complaints about stereotypes, objectification, obscured action, lack of character development in the title characters, and ridiculous scripts do stand. Assuming they are rebooting the films, I'd love to see the reboot take the elements that worked, and put them in a movie with better plot, a family friendly tone (though by all means, it should be allowed to get serious when it needs to), no stereotypes whatsoever, that makes good use of the characters.
     
  6. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally TFW2005 Supporter

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    Films 1-4 ARE AMAZING! I have millions of arguments, but I already wrote most of them many times. The 5th Movie isn't bad, but doesn't hold the same mark.
     
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  7. Galva Prime

    Galva Prime Well-Known Member

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    I don't think any of the films are sooo bad. I found TLK a disappointment, but that's more to do with my expectations of what AOE set up than it being a poor movie per se. I think a lot of the things that people have complained about aren't unique to Transformers; there's plenty of stereotyping, objectification and base humour is ever present not just in the movie industry but in entertainment media in general. Of course all the films could've been better, but there's a lot worse out there.
     
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  8. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    Did the animators work hard at creating scrap metal monsters? Absolutely.
    Were the writers on cocaine and didn't give a crap about the story, or plot? Absolutely.

    Did Michael Bay try to create a film from an Everyman pov? Are you kidding me?!
    Michael Bay is a cynic who thinks transformers are stupid; he thinks we the fans are stupid, and you know what; maybe we are. These trash films limpted and stumbled along for a decade, and each time he was talking down to us, condescending to us, and had a very low opinion of us. And it all shows in his work.
    You're welcome to your opinion, but maybe you crossed over from a Mandela universe where the Bayformers are great films.
    In this universe, they're very hit or miss.
     
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  9. Galvatross

    Galvatross Online Fandoms Suck! Veteran

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    I'd agree fully with points 1 and 2. The work that goes into these films is incredible, and most general audience members do want an everyman to relate to, whether that's Sam or Cade.

    If one thinks any one of the films is good for what they're trying to be, a case could be made for it. Frankly, I think most of the films are quite underrated in terms of character and story. None of them are anywhere near as bad as the most angry critics claim.

    However, if I were to say an unpopular opinion it would be that, overall, the even-numbered films are better than the odd ones. Both even-numbered films are vastly underrated.
     
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  10. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    If these were all the case, then how come the films are so panned by the cinematic community?

    The first and second are true, though the use of an everyman is extremely common in the average big blockbuster (for the reason you've provided, it helps make the story relatable to the audience and 'ground' the setting). I'd disagree with you on the third point (if anything I don't even think its the best scene in the first film, though it is one of them), and I guess since I'm questioning it, it ceases to be unquestionable?

    That the first and second point are (partly) true don't prove that the Transformers films are good. If anything, they help show that film is an art, as much as a job, and that vision and artistic content and craft have to be there along with a ton of hard work in a lot of different areas. There are plenty of bombs that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and that plenty of people with more successful projects slaved away on for months. Good people and hard work, sadly, are not a guarantee of a good film.

    Also, even if the third point were true, it still wouldn't prove that the other four films are any good. So... yeah, what we've got here is an unpopular opinion. Good job!
     
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  11. NemesisPrime12

    NemesisPrime12 Well-Known Member

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    TF1: great start of a franchise, and somewhat revolutionary back in 2007
    TF2: a pretty fun movie that you could watch over and over again.
    TF3: a more serious TF movie with intriguing plot twist and epic finale. Should've been the end of the bayformers trilogy
    TF4: the most michael bay TF movie. My favorite so far because every aspects are actually interesting
    TF5: disappointing and huge waste of opportunities



    Oh man... TF is a franchise that started great and ended in a disappointment :( 
     
  12. Russian fan

    Russian fan Proud Autobot Ally TFW2005 Supporter

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    It is unpopular only here and among of so-called "critics". But among the majority of viewers around the world it is very popular and widespread opinion. If you, or @Autobot Burnout, or someone else here don't agree with this opinion, it doesn't make it unpopular. If viewers would consider this films as not good, films wouldn't gross ~4,5 billions of $. Especially in the age of so expensive tickets.
     
  13. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout War Dog

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    The numbers don't lie, though - TLK only made $605.4 million worldwide, that's not only less than the first film but nearly below fifty percent of the immediate film before it, AoE which made $1.104 billion. That is just under $500 million that TLK did not get, but since you seem so sure about the popularity of the movies, where exactly did that $500 million go? If the Transformers films are so popular as you claim, then why did scores of people from around the world not support it? Why did they not return after AoE if it was so popular?

    I looked up the Russian box office performance of TLK and it actually was among the highest non-China markets, about $15 million and on par with Germany and Mexico. That's a third as much as AoE performed where in Russia alone it pulled $45 million, and half of the other two countries as well - Germany was $38 million, and Mexico $33 million.

    All across the board, every single box office number shrunk considerably from AoE to TLK, meaning scores of people did not go to see the sequel. Meaning that the films are losing popularity. I mean, as I pointed out above, TLK only did fractionally as much at the box office as compared to AoE's performance, and I doubt movie ticket prices skyrocketed in the three years between films, meaning people did not bother watching the next transformers film. It's the same story in every single box office from what I can tell. And that is the kind of performance bottoming-out that kills franchises, as it has done with Transformers for the time being - the only reason Bumblebee is still being released is because it was closer to being done than not at the time, so Paramount might as well try to milk money from it. And they sure aren't doing a good job of it given the only real promotion we've even gotten about it is from a guy who probably contributed to it (and his recent film; PR 2 is tanking at the box office) and from John Cena who freakin' stars in it so he's not going to say the film is crap before it releases.
     
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  14. electronic456

    electronic456 擎天柱

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    Have you heard the words Mark Hamill had said about the Last Jedi before he took it back? There are people out there who are brave to speak out about their films you know....

    I agree that box office and critical reception are 2 different things though.
     
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  15. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout War Dog

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    And Cullen did sort of the same thing by mentioning there were lines he recorded for TLK he did not feel comfortable doing.

    However, the difference being that Disney has been on edge with Star Wars ever since the Battlefront 2 disaster with EA, so I don't really know if Hamil recanting his words was his own decision or Disney flexing some megacorporation muscle in his direction to get him to shut up about it given the polarized reaction to Last Jedi as a whole. That is a subject for a different thread, though.

    And of those two, the only one that matters is the former.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
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  16. Wheeljack_Prime

    Wheeljack_Prime Don't eat me

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    It's the latter. It always is.
     
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  17. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    And yet, somehow its an opinion unpopular in relation to what people in this thread are saying. Curious, that, especially given you yourself said the last film was not 'good', only 'not bad'.
     
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  18. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    That was for AoE.
     
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  19. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland

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    The word you want is "invalid", not "unpopular". Point one is a given for any big budget film. Two is common in many films and isn't an indicator of quality. Three only applies to the first film, even if I agree big time.

    Great if you like all five. No need for a thread explaining why with bad examples, though. :p 
     
  20. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout War Dog

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    Enh, I think AoE is pretty shit as well so Cullen speaking out against that film still works for my point.
     
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