Unexplored Theory - Teletraan 1 created human life on Earth.

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by ClunkerSlim, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. ClunkerSlim

    ClunkerSlim Well-Known Member

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    You can't claim "intent" when all the writers had different ideas about what the Vok were doing and who they were. Even the producers disagreed. You can't cherry pick one person's opinion and then call it the show's "intent."
     
  2. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    You are confusing opinion with intent. Opinion is a judgement, as in "The Vok are stupid". Intent is a fact, as in "The Vok also attempted to play the role of God for humans, intending to guide their development and reveal their true nature once the Vok felt the humans were ready."

    Despite our disagreements with canon, I think we can at least agree the Vok would really REALLY foul up the idea of Teletran-1 influencing humanity. Remember that just having the Maximals and Predacons there was enough for them to attempt to destroy their experiment...I seriously doubt they'd tolerate Teletran-1. So, as I said before, your fan theory could work, albeit improbably due to other logistical problems, if you ignore Beast Wars and Beast Machines as part of G1 canon...and Japanese G1 (Masterforce, in particular).
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  3. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think anybody suggested this fan idea was Canon, Only that it fits within what we know is Canon

    And it’s also my understanding that the different show creators had different ideas on what to do with the vok, So how are you can put one over any of the others seems to be an oddball for me

    Based on the criteria you put above what do you do when the intent of the writer ,creator or Artists Conflicts with what we were given originally for what gets done down the line?
     
  4. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    I guess the better question is what is the conflicting intent? I'm only familiar with what is listed on TFWiki, which gives a much more definite, fact-based statement and does not speak of conflicting viewpoints. If you have evidence of this, please provide.
     
  5. ClunkerSlim

    ClunkerSlim Well-Known Member

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    What are you talking about? We already showed you like five different paragraphs that clearly stated the writers were divided on that. You can't just say that's the intended backstory for the Vok, because there was no intended backstory for the Vok. The writers couldn't agree on one.
     
  6. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to a host of different things in which we are intense conflicts with what was done in some cases for example
    I was referring to a host of different things in which with intense conflicts with what was done in some cases for example

    If we were talking to 86 movie there are examples of the intent from the creators that some character survive that we are later shown to have appeared dead

    So the questions I’m asking you is would you stand when the writer in the tent was one thing and they went a different way so one of the questions I’m asking you is when you stand when the writer intent was one thing and they went a different way in the finished product or some future writer went a different way

    As to the Vok , It was DiTillos intent that they be the final form, or at least connected to the Swarm from the G2 comics

    Forwards intent was that they were the evolutionary endpoint of all sentient life in the universe, becoming a “borg ikecollective” traveling around the universe ,shaping the development of other races in order to guide them eventually into becoming Vok themselves.
     
  7. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    You have provided nothing. Telling me they were divided...divided on what? Do you even know what they were divided about? Do you have references?
     
  8. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    In terms of the 86 movie, I've already established canon hierarchy. If some character dies on screen, even though the intent was for him to survive, then on sceen trumps intent.

    As for the Vok, your stated disent on the backstory of the Vok does not contradict that the Vok was responsible for humanity, of which there seems to be an agreement. The backstory of the Vok pre Beast Wars is another discussion for another thread.
     
  9. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    you’re really not answering the question

    How do you attach worth to “intent” when you can so easily be dismissed by what they do on the screen Either at the time or later in the future?
    I wasn’t trying to contradict that, I was asking you can accept the back story and intent of one writer over the other
     
  10. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    Because on-screen trumps intent.

    Again, the backstory is irrelevant to the thread. But since you insist, since neither is completely established, we have to extrapolate from what IS canon. In this case, IDW's Vok is Enlightened Swarm. Therefore, we can surmise that Beast Wars Vok are most likely the same...at least firming up the psuedocanon as such.

    Here's another case. In Season 1 & 2 of G1 Sunbow, does Optimus Prime have the Matrix of Leadership? Writer intent would indicate that he does, Flint Dille even asking fans at a convention "We didn't mention the Matrix in the first two seasons? I thought we did!". But Optimus's chest has exploded...he's been torn apart and rebuilt...Megatron has never cared about the Matrix in those seasons...so on-screen canon would indicate he does NOT have the Matrix for those seasons. But Beast Wars canon indicates he at least has it while in the Ark and on Earth. There are three instances where Optimus retains his form without it (including Japanese Headmasters)...so it's possible he had it hidden in a secure location during those seasons (fan theory)? Do we go with Flint's intention that he had it all along? Or do we operate with on-screen extrapolation, that he couldn't possibly have had it during the first two seasons and must have secured it in a safe place for awhile?
     
  11. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    And it’s intent can be dismissed so easily By what’s on screen, That could have been a mistake.....

    Then it’s worthless when it to come to Canon to begin with

    Sorry your summation doesn’t hold much weight

    The events in one universe donot prove anything Canon in another
    Just a few things

    1) I think Flint was joking about mention it in s1and 2

    2)That Megatron didn’t care doesn’t mean much perhaps he knew he couldn’t use it

    3)The damage that he experienced in those cases don’t necessarily indicate anything, It’s possible the matrix chamber is only accessible at will and remains hidden unless he specifically access is a certain code to open it up when he’s near death.

    So based on that, on screen Canon Doesn’t really indicate either in having it or not having it

    Correction beast wars on screen Canon indicates he had it, however the dialogue would suggest that what we saw was a spark chamber

    Hence the comic book I believe I mentioned earlier in this thread (or maybe another one) That tells us that the matrix in the spark chamber are two different devices in his chest that look the same
    My retainers his form do you mean his body?

    If so, there’s no reason to believe the matrix ever upgraded him the way you did hot Rod,

    Although I tend to believe it did and there’s other reasons why his body never shifted back down without the matrix for one would be the fact that he retained that form for over 9 million years

    The other would be, The major rebuilding he received from the arc
    What I said above I think Flint was joking

    And I believe it’s pretty well established that five faces of darkness tells us crime was given the matrix by Alpha Trion 9 million years ago

    As to why we didn’t see it during season one and two, I don’t think we need to except any serious because I don’t think there’s any reason why we had to have seen it

    Of all the times you mentioned the only real time you would think we really should’ve seen something was when his chest was exploded, But as I suggested there could’ve been some kind a security measure in place in which we are unless he activates it it doesn’t emerge

    And the beast wars comic I pointed out before Adds credit to that idea
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  12. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    That's why I have a hierarchy and stick to it.

    That's your opinion.

    No, but it presents a backbone when it supports intent.

    He wasn't. I was there.

    [quote{
    But Beast Wars canon indicates he at least has it while in the Ark and on Earth.[/quote]
    Correction beast wars on screen Canon indicates he had it, however the dialogue would suggest that what we saw was a spark chamber

    Hence the comic book I believe I mentioned earlier in this thread (or maybe another one) That tells us that the matrix in the spark chamber are two different devices in his chest that look the same[/quote]
    Not sure what comic book you are talking about.

    True. Alpha Trion seemed to rebuild his body minus the Matrix.

    That would be fan theory as on-screen canon contradicts the idea. Unless there's writers intent somewhere to support this viewpoint?

    Or it wasn't there at all, being hidden and charged as in the first three episodes of Japanese Headmasters.
     
  13. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    At any rate, if the OP can't refute authorial intent and would prefer to use fan theory over what is at least overly agreed upon psuedocanon, then so be it. I've tried discussing on the OP's terms as well but apparently all we want to do is hijack the thread over what is canon, authorial intent and largely agreed upon psuedocanon. I'm done. There's nothing more to be gained by debating off-topic VOK backstory when that has no impact on the subject at hand. If the OP would like to discuss how Teletran-1 can somehow influence the human race when:

    1. The Vok are there doing experiments and clearly don't like Transformers mucking it up and attempted to "deal" with them on several occasions
    2. Teletran-1 does not have terraforming capabilities, being limited to a small satellite structure for mobility
    3. Author intent in officially published material clearly intends on the Vok being the ones guiding humanity, regardless of whom the Vok exactly are

    Even if you strike #3, #1 and #2 make it highly improbable...but only if you consider Beast Wars G1 Sunbow canon. There are indicators it isn't. Which was my whole point to begin with before Altered Prime took this completely off-topic.
     
  14. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    and a hierarchy is pretty much no different then a person‘s personal taste and opinions , what one person considers above another someone else might consider to be less worthy

    Makes more sense to stick to what people can’t argue against ,And can’t be considered opinion, That’s what is solid canon

    Hence the commonly held rule of thumb for decades, So not just my opinion

    Only for the IDW book in question

    It does absolutely nothing for G1 or beast wars

    then I think you misunderstood him because I’ve read interviews he’s given and he clearly seems to understand the matrix wasn’t always there

    I read an interview on how he wanted to introduce it specifically into one Season 2 episode, cosmic rust I believe

    3H Prime evil Dawn part one
    Yep that’s one possibility

    actually nothing on screen contradicts the idea seeing as we never actually saw him on screen getting rebuilt

    Now you could argue the dialogue contradicts since the word “rebuild” was used

    but this is transformers, and words like built being born and created Took on multiple meetings and sometimes will miss used and applied in ways that normally don’t apply in regular conversation

    And that would be a fan idea since in the US sunbow continuity, It was never shown that the matrix needed any sort of physical recharge

    And again what happens in the Japanese continuity has no bearing with this conversation

    If you no longer want to continue this conversation that’s cool, I had some fun so thank you very much the only thing I will say is that this was just a topic was speculation and as such, psyedocanon(as you put it) really don’t hold any weight

    I agree here fully
    Not sure if terraforming capabilities are needed, Although I do see the other limitations possibly causing some difficulty

    But I could see how the mobile satellites could come into play here delivering chemicals into the atmosphere that could have affected the evolution of life
    Published but not canon so has no bearing on this conversation which was that a speculation
    Hey I only took your statement and went with it so you can’t really blame me only
     
  15. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    The likelihood Teletran contained enough chemicals to terraform Earth's atmosphere is highly dubious.
     
  16. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean by terraform the atmosphere?

    I am in no way a scientist so forgive me for not knowing but I would have assumed since we earth already supported primate life that no change to the atmosphere would be needed

    What it would need to do would be to add DNA altering elements into the atmosphere

    And I know it sounds like ancient aliens theories or even some Star Trek episodes

    As to whether it would have the chemicals needed even a question to a bit but since the ship was on an exploratory mission maybe you had some chemicals that were originally designed for locating an alter energy sources but with a little manipulation was usable to Alter DNA
     
  17. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    Since we're going by ON SCREEN CANON,

    1. Teletran-1 is a stationary computer. It cannot deliver DNA altering chemicals.
    2. It can deploy the Sky Spy
    [​IMG]
    This is clearly not large enough to deliver any type of airborne chemical that wouldn't disperse into the atmosphere before it reached any human.

    Also, as per ON SCREEN CANON, it has no apparatus to store nor deliver said chemicals in any capable capacity, especially if it's mostly made up of scanning instrumentation, telescopic hardware and propulsion systems.

    I don't personally know how much gas would be required to be effective, but I'm going to assume it's quite a bit. For the sake of discussion, let's use mustard gas as an analogue. 4 to 14 pounds worth of the gas is considered low risk...which means Sky Spy would need to be able to

    1. Carry 15 pounds or more of gas
    2. Be able to deploy it in an effective manner
    3. Maintain enough thrust (thus burning energon, which is in low quantities) to deliver and return

    Now, something I'm trying to research but am not coming up with is that I was under the impression that Teletran-1 mistook vehicles as the predominant lifeform on Earth, scanning them instead. If this is true, then that blows the entirety of the OP's fan theory out of the water...but I need to dig around some more. EDIT Looks like that was Auntie in the Marvel comics series.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  18. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    Also, OP was implying Teletran-1 can terraform the ground into having more Energon at the time of Beast Wars. It's clearly incapable of doing that...but the Vok can.
     
  19. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    maybe you missed the part where I suggest that if you do sell through the small satellites it can deploy

    Sky spy as you pointed out
    Not large enough my but,lol

    This is science fiction and throughout the different types of science fiction I have seen smaller devices deliver all sorts of chemicals and gases that can do all sorts of things

    Including affect life on a planetary scale
    Again as I stated earlier the ship was on an exploratory mission searching not only open space are probably other planets for energy sources

    Undoubtably the sky spys would have been used in the searches and possibly a scouts, and in keeping with that would’ve been modifiable for Alien terrains And atmospheres
    . I can’t consider weight issues of the gas you’re bringing up for two reasons

    First we don’t know what kind of gas were talking about and perhaps a minuscule amount would cover several miles

    Second, If the spy can utilize anti-Gravitational tech then the weight is irrelevant

    The point in an affective manner......Let the twins and how many of the spy’s Can we the deployed at any one time..... I do believe we only ever saw one at any one time but that’s not really evidence of anything

    You got a very good point with the energy to pullthe job off though
    Your confusing the info from the marvel comics origin

    You might think that is good enough to say the same is true for the cartoon, that would be extremely debatable When you factor in all the other differences between the two universes

    You’re right about the energon and the vok
     
  20. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

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    It doesn't. That's a thruster at the bottom of the Sky Spy.

    It's evidence of quite a bit, actually. Or else, multiples would have been deployed to scan alt modes rather than send one in MTMtE.

    You got a very good point with the energy to pullthe job off though


    I made an edit note.
     

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