unarmed man shot to death by police *with video*

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by benzo, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. benzo

    benzo Well-Known Member

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    *warning! video is disturbing*

    "Citizen videos" spread online showing BART police officer shooting unarmed man to death

    In the early hours of New Year's Day, 27-year-old BART police officer Johannes Mehserle shot and killed 22-year old Oscar Grant. A number of people who were riding the BART train that night witnessed the shooting, and shot video or photos on handheld cameras or phones. The victim's family today filed a lawsuit for $25 million. Five days after the shooting, the accused officer still has not given a statement. He is said to be have received death threats and authorities are apparently moving him from place to place to protect him from harm. Some people are speculating the shooting may have been an accident -- the officer may have grabbed his gun by mistake because he thought he was instead grabbing a Taser device. I have operated both devices, though certainly not in those extreme stress conditions, and I find that argument hard to understand. The weapons are so different. Snip from SF Chron article, to that point:

    [Use-of-force training and research firm founder Bruce Siddle] said changes in how the brain processes information in a stressful situation might have led the officer to mistake the butt of his service weapon for the Taser. But other experts found the idea that the shooting resulted from such a mix-up hard to believe.
    "That's as reflexive as you getting in on the driver's side of the car (instead of) the passenger side if you want to drive it," [Florida criminologist George] Kirkham said. "There's no remote similarity to a conventional firearm. ... The Taser is just like apples and oranges."

    The fact that so many videos and images are surfacing in this case is significant, because each set of images provides a different view of the killing, with different visual information. Snip from that same SF Chron article:
    Roy Bedard, who has trained police officers around the world, advanced a different theory after his first viewing of the video: that the shooting was a pure accident, a trigger pulled because of a loss of balance or a loud noise.
    But in an indication of how the videos might move the investigation, Bedard reached a different conclusion after viewing the shooting from a different angle.

    "Looking at it, I hate to say this, it looks like an execution to me," he said. "It really looks bad for the officer. ... We have to get inside his head and figure out what he was thinking when he fired the shot."

    I first heard about the story from Jake Appelbaum's blog: BART Police (in Oakland) murdered a man on NYE. Here is one video (nsa.org). Here is another released by a Bay Area CBS affiliate -- first, we see the entire, raw footage a 19 year old eyewitness shot on her camcorder, then we hear her explain what she saw and experienced -- she says a female BART police officer tried to forcibly confiscate her camcorder.
     
  2. The_Bardock

    The_Bardock ****** of the Minicons

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    That guy should be in jail
     
  3. GW_Freak

    GW_Freak Banned

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    Man Transit cops are hardcore.
     
  4. NemesisBruticus

    NemesisBruticus Banned

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    Im just speechless.
     
  5. Darkwing48

    Darkwing48 Heroic Decepticon

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    I have a strong hate against bad people who hide under something that suppose to be good. Corrupt Cops, Corrupt Politicians, etc.

    Shoot an unarmed, detained man is an execution. Unless it was accidentally. I can understand if he was scared, but he had backup. He should let the other officers handle the other people. Cops put their life on the life everyday, but if they can't take the streets, opt out for a desk job, forensics, detective work, etc.

    I've remembered a story while I was in college that the Compton Sheriffs, which then recently replaced the Compton Police, shot about 97 shots at an unarmed man in an SUV, (I'm not sure he failed to yield, or an end to a pursuit). Less than a third actually hit the SUV. The rest ended up through the walls of houses in the community.
    Gangs in Compton haven't done that bad in shootings. These fools (Sheriffs) reloaded.
    The man was detained unharmed, but luckily nobody was hit as the bullets flew inside their houses.

    I don't hate all cops. I hate just the ones like Mark Furman, the Rodney King Cops, Rampart Division, and ones who don't admit fault. I used to be a Compton Police Explorer (97-99) in High School. We did some tactical training from Traffic Stops to charging into a place with weapons drawn.

    Just imagine, if even trained professionals can do this, imagine what would happen if people carried weapons during the Virginia Tech Shooting. I bet the people wouldn't even know who the original shooter is while they are pointing or shooting their guns at each other.

    This officer should not have had his finger on the trigger on a detained man. Let along verified his weapon before squeezing the trigger.
     
  6. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    if he was unarmed what's the point of shooting......unless it;'s accidental....he's a bad cop and not the good kind....
     
  7. Sideways

    Sideways Banned

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    Agreed.
     
  8. Chaos Muffin

    Chaos Muffin Misadventure Veteran

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    That's fu**ed up
     
  9. mineraljane

    mineraljane Gravity Hugger

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    Thankfully mobile phones with camcorders are nearly ubiquitous these days, otherwise things like this would go unpunished.

    I realize that this is a single incident in this article and not indicative of the entire lot of police officers across the country, but there have been far too many instances where police have used excessive force when an individual was otherwise detained. I don't see why this is so difficult to follow: if a person is handcuffed, then don't use a taser (which can be deadly) and most definitely not a sidearm. It should be really simple.
     
  10. rattrap007

    rattrap007 Insert witty comment here TFW2005 Supporter

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    I can't tell anything from that video.
     
  11. tikgnat

    tikgnat Baweepgranaweepninnybong. TFW2005 Supporter

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    I can't actually make out anything.

    Toward the end it might be one of the cops pulls out his gun and his shoulder seems to buck, is that what I'm looking at?
     
  12. mineraljane

    mineraljane Gravity Hugger

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    Really? You cannot see the cop shoot an otherwise detained individual, look up at another office with a frightened look on his face, and then place both of his hands briefly on his face?

    From the video, and this is just by the officer's reaction, it seems as though the shooting wasn't intentional. However if it wasn't intentional, this is one absolutely huge mistake if he was either pulling out his sidearm to be threatening and it discharged or he had intended to pull his taser. Even if accidental, he still needs to be serving serious prison time.
     
  13. GW_Freak

    GW_Freak Banned

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    If it was truly an accident then he needs to be fired (who grabs their firearm instead of their taser?!), but I don't believe jail time is necessary. I think if he really thought he had a taser out it just shows how unsuitable for this line work he must be to lose it that much under pressure. Prowl_Delta_31 needs to back me up here....
     
  14. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    Wait, what? Without mobile phone cameras, the police would shoot people in front of witnesses without being charged? Ok...:confused: 

    Can't tell anything from the video either.
     
  15. mineraljane

    mineraljane Gravity Hugger

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    Uh, no.

    Without video evidence, this turns into a citizen complaint which is then denied by police. Two versions of an incident weighted toward one party.

    These things have always happened and are not new phenomena. Video evidence is the only relatively new aspect to these sorts of incidents and are absolutely crucial as a deterrent and, in a way, training tool to get these officers to act appropriately.

    If you're still confused, well then I cannot really help you.
     
  16. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    How exactly would that conversation go?
    "Hi, I'd like to complain about one of your officers shooting an unarmed man."
    "No he didn't."
    "Yes he did. I saw it. All the people here with me saw it."
    "Never happened. No one got shot."
    "There's a corpse with a head wound leaking blood onto your boot."
    "No there isn't."
    etc.

    Seriously? Come on, dude.
     
  17. a person

    a person Is not amused.

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    One of my best friends is called also called Oscar Grant. He's obviously the wrong guy though. :lol 
     
  18. Prowl_Delta_31

    Prowl_Delta_31 Eating your donuts

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    I think I will ponder this over a little before commenting........but before everyone starts yelling execution lets wait for all the facts to come out.....remember the pink lady thing?
     
  19. Ra88

    Ra88 Dutchman!

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    Witnesses don't tend to be THAT reliable if you wait with asking them what they remember; details get fuzzy overtime, and the adrenaline of the situation most likely doesn't help either. It helps if there's a big group, but the risk of that is people convincing they saw something they didn't when they talk to each other about it. Hence why cameras are important, even better when there are multiple videos with different angles to get a complete picture.
     
  20. mineraljane

    mineraljane Gravity Hugger

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    This is really what you're coming up with as a defense to your untenable position? Honestly? That's just silly.

    Anyhow back to the thread again...

    Whether accidental or not, the office needs to be punished. This is not a condemnation of all officers nor a comment on a larger problem. This is one officer who appears to have made, at minimum, a poor choice.

    God bless the 4 year old daughter of the victim.

    With that, I'm done.
     

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