TV ? 720 vs 1080

Discussion in 'Video Games and Technology' started by NotFastEnuff, Nov 10, 2007.

  1. NotFastEnuff

    NotFastEnuff I'm a smartass...

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    Hi everyone. I know this isn't directly a game question, but it relates to my game playing. I'm wanting to get a new TV sometime after Christmas. I keep looking, and I get more confused the more I look. Is 1080 really that much better? Do you have LCD, plasma, or DLP? I know that most of the dlps that I look at seem REALLY dark. Any and all input will be appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. Lord Of Tetris

    Lord Of Tetris Well-Known Member

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    I have a 720p TV right now, and I see a big difference when I walk into Best Buy and I see the 1080p TV's. Mind you, 720p isn't a deal breaker for the money you'd be spending on it. For TV's that are the same size and company, the difference between 720 and 1080 is about $1500, for a difference of about 300 pixels. Up to you if that expense seems worthwhile. Most of the blu-rays I own don't even go up to 1080p. If you have the money, get 1080p. 1080p is the wave of the future, and 720p isn't getting any newer. Companies are putting out fewer 720p TV's now. That said, my 720p LCD is a few years old, and I still think it's extremely beautiful. I have no regrets.

    Don't get DLP. It's big, it's hot, and it's not all that clear. Avoid.

    About plasma and LCD...well, there's no clear cut answer. Here's how I see it, and you can decide for yourself.

    Plasma: slightly clearer display than LCD, but a hell of a lot more costly. Colors are richer and motion is smoother, but plasma TV's aren't made to last. The TV itself works by burning several gases inside the pixels. What do you think happens when a TV works by burning gases? Yup. It'll get blurrier as time goes on. Less and less companies are making plasma. This is not the wave of the future, but it's the king of the "now."

    LCD: slightly less clear than a plasma, colors won't be as vibrant, but a hell of a lot less costly. We're talking a difference of $1000 or so. You'll be stuck with a tiny bit of motion blur, no two ways about it. LCD works by illuminating a bunch of liquids inside your TV. Naturally, illuminating a liquid is far less destructive than burning a gas, so it'll last quite a long time. The downside is that liquids change slower than gases, so for fast-paced scenes, a little motion blur or pixellation is unavoidable.

    However. LCD's are getting better every day. More companies are abandoning plasma and hopping onto LCD. LCD lasts longer, it's always improving, and really, the gap is so small these days that you won't notice the motion blur. It'll be there if you really look for it, but really, unless you're watching the TV's side by side, you won't notice a difference between LCD or plasma. Likewise, unless you have a 720 and a 1080 TV side by side, you won't see the difference.

    If you can't afford to get a plasma 1080p, you won't lose by getting a 720p LCD television.

    I plan to buy a 1080p LCD TV myself, at around Christmas time. I've been saving up for about a year, so money isn't a concern. I simply don't want to buy a TV that'll get worse over time, so plasma is out.
     
  3. Primus

    Primus Beware, the modelers. Veteran

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    The difference is not 300 pixels. it's closer to 2 million pixels. You can get a really nice 56" 1080p hdtv for about $1700.

    Before I go into any more detail, NFE, how much are you willing to spend.
     
  4. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan www.megamoonman.com TFW2005 Supporter

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    If weight and size is not an issue, you can't beat a CRT for picture quality, cost, and longevity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2007
  5. NSJ23

    NSJ23 Binalternator Lover

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    Very true but i don't plan to ever own another 70 plus pound TV. I have a 32 inch 720p that can display 1080i Samsung LCD and i love it and will keep it until it burns out in 10 years. but if I do buy another it will be a at least a 50 inch LCD 108op TV. Sadly other than my HD cable box I don't have much that takes full advantage of my TV.
     
  6. Scrappy

    Scrappy smiling a blacktooth grin

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    WAIT, what? Plasma's have always been cheaper when compared to an LCD equivilent. Atleast in the places I shop. I have a 42" Panasonic Plasma that cost me around $1100. The same with a picture that is on par with mine will cost you double if not more for an LCD display.

    LCD's are comming down in price but Plasma's are by far cheaper.
     
  7. NotFastEnuff

    NotFastEnuff I'm a smartass...

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    I'm not really sure what I'm wanting to spend. As cheap as possible, while still getting something good, but that kinda general. I'd like to stay under a grand, but I doubt I can get what I want for that range. Probably $1500 at most. No $6000 Pioneer sixty whatever inch for me. :D 

    I know plasmas have their issues with time, but it seems that when I'm walking through the tvs, they have the better picture. (which LoT pointed out) I'm just concerned with buying a $1500 tv, and it dying in 5 years. My other concern is the retailers themselves. I know for fact (don't ask how) that some retailers intentionally make certain brands and models look, lets just say, less than they can be. I also know that there's only 3 (I think it's 3) manufacturers of the LCD screens, and everyone else just does their own casing and the rest of the electronics. I also found out that LG and Philips are merged.

    What do you all think of all these upstart LCD tv companies?
     
  8. Primus

    Primus Beware, the modelers. Veteran

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  9. TonyzCustomz

    TonyzCustomz Am I doin it rite? TFW2005 Supporter

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    You do know that both LCD and Plasmas have fading over time issues. The time is almost the same so their really is no difference, it comes down to if you want to watch sports and movies(plasma) or play games(LCD). The plasma will always have a better picture and I recommend nothing but Panasonic, don't ever get a pioneer they are way overpriced. If you still want a LCD my best recommendation is any of the Sharp 1080p tv's this is what I have and could not be happier and please don't get a projector. P.S. I worked as supervisor at Best Buy and went to plenty of trainings and know what I am talking about.:wink: 
     
  10. Gigatron_2005

    Gigatron_2005 President of Calendars

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    I must say that Im a big fan of LCD tvs. I perfer them mainly because of their matte screens that dont have horrible light reflection, and they're light and easy to set up, and most importantly: no burn in. I dont buy a lot of the "better colors" on plasma because most people look at horribly calibrated LCD sets. But if you were to perfectly calibrate both LCD and Plasma to a specific standard, the plasma might look a little better. That said, Ive noticed that quite a few Plasmas do horrible black levels which tends to annoy me, but also this could be faulty calibration. Plasmas also do handle motion a little bit better, but this may not be true anymore with those pretty 120hrz LCD sets. I feel that today, most modern LCDs and Plasmas look about on par with each other. Its just a matter of cost, and what would be better for your own home.

    My only big knock at LCD technology is that it still has a handicap in the viewing angle category. So if you have a very wide viewing angle for your TV, you might want to give plasma a look.

    And LCDs and Plasmas having the same fading over time issue? LULZ!! No. Plasmas burn gas, LCD just has a backlight that snakes around the back of the TV. The backlight should last longer, but yeah it will fade over time. Also, when LED backlights become common, LCDs should have an amazingly long life.

    Also, Ive noticed that many stores like to make their older model TVs look not-so-good compared to the newer models. This may be something you will want to watch out for. Remember that many TVs come horribly calibrated and many stores seem to do a not-so-good job either. The stores also like to calibrate plasma and the more expensive LCDs the best, because its simply better advertisement for prospective TV buyers to buy the most expensive TV. Remember that anything you buy will probably look like crap unless you calibrate it. Lots of people who have seen my tv think its some kind of amazing plasma set, but its just a nicely calibrated LCD.

    Also, 720 vs 1080. If money allows, go to 1080. Good 720 content can look really great, but good 1080 content will look even better.
     
  11. ChldsPlay

    ChldsPlay Well-Known Member

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    DLP has the best bang for your buck.

    Try a Samsung DLP. You should be able to get a 50" or so for $1500ish. I got my 61" for about $2,000.

    Plasmas have always looked blurry to me. LCDs are ok, but really you have to sit back a bit or they look like shit.

    If you're going with something less than 42" or so, don't even worry about 720 or 1080p, it won't matter.
     
  12. ChldsPlay

    ChldsPlay Well-Known Member

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    What Blu-Rays are you getting that don't do 1080p?
     
  13. TonyzCustomz

    TonyzCustomz Am I doin it rite? TFW2005 Supporter

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    LCD's have a 178 vewing angle, that is damn good and yes they both do have fading issues LCD's start to fade after 10,000 hours also known as the break in period after that then they will look like that for a while until they go into their fade out period when it is time to get a new one which happens to be the same life span as a plasmas gas. Plasmas have about a teaspoon of the chemical boron and a few others in the screen that burns only microns at a time and takes about 60,000 years to burn completely out. As for calibration yes every tv should have it done, out of the box they are set that they look best in artificial light in a store, thats the reason most people get mad about how it always looks better in the store. Also plasma's black levels are always better than LCD's because the screen can actually shut off theos pixels making them completely black where as an LCD always has the entire back light on so even when the pixel is off the light will still shine through a little. You are right about one thing though, you must look at the TV's and really find one that fits your lifestyle and never o into a store and get talked into buying one, leave, go home and research the hell out of the ones you like and maybe even join a board that people talk about tech on and get several opinions.
     
  14. Lord Of Tetris

    Lord Of Tetris Well-Known Member

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    I got my PS3 just a few months ago. All the movies I really want, I already have on DVD. The only blu-rays I've been buying are the ones for the movies I've really wanted to see again. I either never owned those movies, or I just have them on VHS. Such as Unforgiven. Yeah, I know Unforgiven isn't exactly maximizing Blu-Ray capability, but I really wanted to see it again. I could either watch my VHS, buy the DVD, or the Blu-Ray.

    Other movies I have, such as The Fifth Element and The Italian Job, look hideous. I've seen some comparison shots on some message boards, and it looks like The Fifth Element certainly runs in 1080p, but it doesn't have any more pixel information than 720p. The Italian Job looks like it was ripped right from the DVD.

    So yeah, I know that it's probably my own fault that I'm not researching Blu-Rays properly, but I still mean it literally when I say that most of my Blu-Rays wouldn't look any better in 1080p.
     
  15. TILALLR1

    TILALLR1 'Til All Are One

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    As said before, the best bang for your buck is projection DLP, which is far better than projection LCD. The TV's are far superior to Rear-Projection CRT, have no burn-in and are cheap. Unfortunetly all 720p. BUT CHEAP. We are talking 65" for under $2000. SIXTY FIVE INCHES PEOPLE.

    But here is a comparison:

    Plasma TV vs LCD TV vs DLP TV Which big screen TV is better???
    QUICK ANSWER: Under 40 inches, LCD , Over 42 go for plasma TV

    LONG ANSWER

    There is a lot of confusion and misleading information available on plasma TV's, LCD TV's and DLP TV's Everyone and anybody you talk to claims to have the answer and they are always bias depending on what the store wants to move or what their factory makes. The truth is that each has advantages and disadvantage depending on your use.

    Please note: In this we discuss name brand and no name . Please don't be fooled by the fact it may come from a well known computer maker, It will still be considered "no name". We consider name brand plasma screens as NEC, Pioneer, Hitachi , LG/Zenith, Panasonic, Samsung and secondary name brands ( based on name brand chassis) such as JVC, Sony, Philips, Mitsubishi and Toshiba.

    "No names" include but are not limited to Maxcent, Norcent, Sampo, Gateway, Monovision, SVA and a pile more that you have never heard of and are usually Chinese based.

    NOTE: LCD TV refers to a LCD flat panel, DLP TV also includes DILA and LCD video projector based rear projection TVs.

    This chart shows a very simplified summary, Please refer to more detailed explanations below

    Computer use only
    Under 30 Inch - LCD TV
    30 to 35 - LCD TV
    40 to 50 - LCD up to 40 inch plasma above 40, use screen saver or screen wipe, expect burning and expect shorter life
    55 to 63 - DLP TV or Video projector, Plasma screens show well but expect image retention - *See note 2

    Video Only ( TV and DVD)
    Under 30 Inch - LCD TV
    30 to 35 - Plasma TV 37 inches plus, LCD Below
    40 to 50 - Plasma screen
    55 to 63 - Plasma screen - *See note 1

    Mostly Video and some Computer
    Under 30 Inch - LCD TV
    30 to 35 - Plasma TV 37 inches plus, LCD Below
    40 to 50 - Plasma screen
    55 to 63 - Plasma screen - *See note 1

    Mostly Computer and Some Video
    Under 30 Inch - LCD TV
    30 to 35 - LCD
    40 to 50 - LCD up to 40 inch plasma above 40, use screen saver or screen wipe
    55 to 63 - Plasma screen, Use saver or screen wipe - *See note 1

    Note 1: Although in the long run Plasma screens are economically the best choice, Lower initial outlay on DLP TV in 60 inch plus area may be attractive, please consider operating costs, see more below

    Note 2: If you are using the plasma for digital signage such as Airport Terminals arrivals signs, the image retention will not be a factor until you plan on using the screen for a different application.

    LCD TV disadvantages :

    One problem with LCD TV screens is that they have a inherent delay problem. This is something that cannot be overcome. " It is the nature of the beast" When a fast moving object moves across a LCD screen the delay of LCD technology causes "artifacting" Basically there are trails or blockiness of the image since the screen cannot keep up. There are newer LCD panels that have lower m/s ( millisecond) times but there still is a delay. The good news is that with a good name brand LCD TV the artifacting is minimal and really wont be noticeable until you get a screen over 30 or 35 inches. At that point the delays will be noticeable and in some cases extremely annoying. Expect severe artifacting on "no name" units to the point of making the TV basically unwatchable .


    Black levels: A LCD display has a backlight which shines through the LCD panels. The panels allow or block light depending on what is required to produce an image or a color. Most , if not all, LCD TV's tend to have difficulty going fully "black". Blacks tend to have a very very dark grey. This is especially true on no name units.


    Field Of Vision: Even the best LCD TV has field of vision problems. When you look straight on the picture looks great, as you move to either side the picture quality diminishes and eventually disappears. Some LCD TV makers claim up to 170o field of view. This is a complete lie. To quote one major manufacturer " well it doesn't mean you have a great picture for 170 degrees, but you do have a picture" . Realistically a good LCD TV such as a Sharp Aquos will have a a 90 degree (45 each side) usable picture.


    Single Usage: There are many LCD screens on the market but very few have good video processing. If a LCD screen is made as a computer monitor, it is usually very poor as a video display. If you are planning to use the unit as a TV, do not buy a computer monitor with a tuner upgrade. Stick to a unit designed for video such as a Sharp Aquos. For dual purpose, buy a LCD TV with a computer input, not a computer screen with a tuner


    Extremely expensive over 35 inch,


    Unbelievable amounts of no name junk units on market. Stick to name brands with proper warranties


    16/9 widescreen units expensive


    Cheaper no name LCD TV's have very poor picture quality and generally poor video performance


    Pixel failure: This can be a problem with no name LCD screens. All the major brands have pixel policies which may allow one or two dead pixels. These are not noticeable unless you are right in front of the screen. A 20 inch LCD screen has over 300,000 pixels. so one or two dead could not be seen. No name LCD screens have extremely poor policies which can allow higher then 10%. This would make the unit unwatchable.

    Digital looking picture: Many LCD screens tend to have a "digital look " to the image and therefore don't seem to reproduce colors naturally.

    LCD TV Advantages:

    Good for still images such as computer display, Fairly reasonable pricing below 30 inches.


    Quality units have good brightness levels


    No real estate: A LCD TV screen hangs on a wall and takes as little space as a picture.


    Low operating cost per hour ( over 35 inch extremely expensive acquisition cost)


    Long Life. Expect 30 to 50,000 hours bulb life according to Sharp ( Please note that the picture can fade over time on a LCD TV. I would expect prime performance to last closer to 20 to 30,000 hours maximum ( 13 years at 6 hours per day). Expect substantially less on a no name.

    Plasma TV Screen Disadvantages:

    Image retention: NOTE : THE NEWER PLASMA SCREENS ARE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO BURN:
    Plasma screens can suffer image retention ( burn in) if a still image is left on the display for a extended period of time. For example, you would not want to use a plasma screen for a computer display constantly. If you were to use a Plasma TV for Video Display and occasional use it for computer, burn in would not be a factor. Also if you were to leave the plasma TV screen on a station such as CNBC, which has constant ticker tape across the bottom, for 24 hours a day, there would be noticeable burn in when you switched to a different channel. If by error you were to burn your screen, proper name brand plasma screens do have a "white flash" utility which eliminates the burn, however it will shorten the life of the plasma. If your primary use of the plasma screen is for TV viewing and dvd, image retention will not be a factor.


    Size: Plasma screens are not available below 37 inches. There were some 32 inch units available but have been discontinued. Also 60 inch and above can be very pricey but prices are coming down. For example a Zenith 60 is below 5000 now.


    No tuners: Most plasma screens do not have tuners and if they do they are expensive upgrades. Some cheaper plasma TV's have optional tuners however they usually are not the best. This is not a disadvantage in most cases. Almost everyone who can afford a plasma will be using satellite, digital cable or external HD boxes. So the built in tuner would be redundant and a waste of money.


    Many no name junk units on market. Stick to name brands.


    Pixel failure: This can be a problem with no name plasma screens. All the major brands have pixel policies which may allow one or two dead pixels. These are not noticeable unless you are right in front of the screen. A 50 inch screen has over 983,000 pixels. so one or two dead could not be seen. No name plasma screens have extremely poor policies which can allow higher then 10%. This would make the unit unwatchable. If the plasma screen has a orbiter function, this will greatly reduce the chance of pixel failure. We have sold tens of thousands of Plasma TV screens and can count the number of units which we have had pixel problems with on one hand. It should be noted we do not sell no name units.


    Early models had poor contrast. the first generation plasma TV screens had poor contrast and brightness. Do not buy a used plasma screen from a online auction such as ebay. The units that have been out for the last two years outperform the older units by miles.

    Plasma TV Screen Advantages:

    Long life: the average name brand plasma TV will last 50 to 70,000 hours to half life ( brightness is 50% of original, it will still be 2 to 3 times brighter then a regular TV) This is around 20 years at 6 hours per day. Expect substantially less on a no name


    Field of vision: A plasma screen TV has a field of vision of almost 180 degrees without loss of picture quality. From any angle you will have a great picture


    Brightness: Plasma screens are very bright. 4 to 5 times brighter then an average TV.


    Great contrast: The last two generations ( two years or so) of name brand Plasma screens have great contrast ratios. Look for a rating of 1000 to 1 or more Please note: certain manufacturers claim levels of 3 or 4000 to 1, That is a false rating and is achieved by using non standard measurement methods. UPDATE : MOST MANUFACTURERS ARE NOW 3000 PLUS.


    Low operating cost: A name brand plasma is cheap to operate due to long life with virtually no maintenance ( No you cannot recharge a plasma, and they don't leak gas). The cost of a nice EDTV 42 inch is well below 1.5 k and a 50 inch is around 2k. 60 inch plus are still highly priced per inch. This is substantially less then a LCD TV. 42 inch plasma TV screens cost almost half of a 40 inch LCD.


    Instantaneous picture response: There is virtually no delay in any name brand plasma and therefore no artifacting that is experienced on LCD screens.


    Natural looking picture: A plasma screen reproduces a picture in a similar manner to a standard TV. Name brand plasma TV colors tend to be natural looking and more accurate. Mo names can tend to be weak or soft on colors.


    No real estate: A plasma screen hangs on a wall and takes as little space as a picture
    .

    Wide screen, All but one or two plasma TV screens are 16:9 wide screen format


    Upgradeability: Many plasma screens have upgradeable video cards that "future proof " your plasma

    DLP rear projection TV disadvantages:

    High operational costs: The dlp TV is simply a DLP video projector in a box. The projectors use a replaceable bulb which can cost between 200 to 400 US dollars. The life on the bulb varies but generally expect around 6 to 8000 hours. However some will last substantially less. Realistically you can expect to be buying a bulb every 2 years and possible sooner if you watch a lot of TV. Add the acquisition cost of the unit and a DLP TV can actually cost twice as much as a plasma over 5 or 6 years of normal use. In the expected life of a unit it can cost 3 to 4 times as much as a plasma. Consider a DLP TV like a computer bubble jet printer. Cheaper to acquire, way more expensive on ink UPDATE: SEVERAL DLP MANUFACTURERS ARE LOSING BULBS AT 2 TO 3000 HOURS

    Example based on 10 hours a day use. DLP costs become even more expensive if your viewing is more then 10 hours a day

    Cost of 42 inch NEC plasma 2500. Additional costs over 10 years 0 Plasma costs per year for 10 years $250 Cost per year for 15 years $ 166

    42 inch DLP TV 2000. Cost of bulbs based on 6000 hour life. 300 per bulb ( this presumes bulb makes full life) $1825 Yearly of cost of DLP TV based on 10 years 382.50 Average cost over 15 years $315

    (not factoring increasing costs of bulbs due to inflation)

    Large foot print: Even though a DLP TV is substantially thinner then a old style rear projection TV, they are still a minimum of 12 to 13 inches deep
    .

    Not wall mountable: units cannot be hung on wall


    Field of vision. Although greatly improving, DLP TVs still do not have as good of a field of vision as a plasma TV


    Picture quality. Although improving, the picture quality varies on DLP TVs. Some have very poor to medium quality, none have spectacular. Many people still complain about artifacting and blockiness in some units


    Diminishing bulb brightness: When a bulb gets older in a dlp TV the brightness level reduces. When the bulb is replaced, the TV becomes bright again.


    Early bulb failure: The bulb in a DLP can fail instantly well before its scheduled replacement. Availability of replacement bulbs very with manufacturer. If you do purchase a DLP TV I would suggest getting a spare bulb right away. Its murphy's law that the bulb will fail 3 minutes before the Superbowl kick off. UPDATE: Several DLP manufacturers are starting to see their units requiring new bulbs below the 2000 hour mark.!!!!!

    DLP rear projection TV advantages:

    Initially low acquisition cost. Generally offset by high operating costs. Still cheaper then a plasma or LCD in the very large size, 42 to 50 are not much cheaper then a plasma screen and definitely not cheaper over the long term.
     
  16. TonyzCustomz

    TonyzCustomz Am I doin it rite? TFW2005 Supporter

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    LOL TMI, Great info though you pretty much went into every nook and cranny, have you heard about the new laser TV's that are coming out in the near future? (seriously Mitsubishi is making it.)
     
  17. ChldsPlay

    ChldsPlay Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean all 720p?? Are you talking about DLP or CRT cause my DLP is 1080p.
     
  18. ChldsPlay

    ChldsPlay Well-Known Member

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    Is that the old copy of 5th Element? You can exchange that for a new one with a better transfer.
     
  19. Prisoner1138

    Prisoner1138 TFW2005 Supporter

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    Some stores do indeed tweak settings to make older models look worse, but at the same time most of the people working in those stores wouldn't know how to calibrate a TV. Most of the time when I see a TV on display in a store the brightness and constrast are jacked through the roof.

    Funny thing is, a lot of people do the same on their tv when they get it, come to my house, and ask why mine looks better.

    Avoid plasma. A guaranteed short lifespan not including burn-in issues is a bitch. I dunno about other people, but I don't buy tv's to replace in 2 years.

    It's not just the old worries about burn-in from videogames either, watching 4:3 programming on a widescreen plasma will cause the sides to end up brighter than the center of the picture. CRT's will do that as well, but it takes longer.(unless you're one of the above mentioned idiots that cant calibrate a TV and watches 4:3 shows stretched out making everything on the show look fat).

    Whichever way you end up going with a decent screen, go get the Avia DVD. You can calibrate your TV by eye with it in 10 minutes.
     
  20. JinraiPrime

    JinraiPrime 1000+ Post Club Member

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    Im either lucky or unfortunate because i see very little difference between tvs...i own a 52' lcd downstairs and 42' plasma upstairs.. i dont know shit about p and i and dpi or whatever.. but i do know that both tvs look amazing whether im playing xbox or watching a dvd... the 52' has a glare shield lol so i like it more. Looking on the frame the 52 is 1080i and the 42 is 720p
     

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