Troops

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Astrotrain52, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. Astrotrain52

    Astrotrain52 Former Green Kool-aider

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    Thought about this idea recently. Do you prefer the idea of having troops/drone type Transformers alongside the spark-containing Transformers with their own personalities, or not? And would you mind seeing them in future continuties/becoming a staple in TF-fiction? Or do you think it could become a tired idea, since the Vehicons have had a prominent role within Transformers Prime?

    Included but not limited to Autotroopers, movie-verse in-game drones, Vehicons (Alligned and Beast-Era continuties), Sharkticons, Sweeps, Omega Sentinels, etc.

    Discuss!
     
  2. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    I hate mindless drones (like in energon and beast machines), but I like the actually living, intelligent generic troops like the Prime Vehicons, provided they're treated as such. I like when the Vehicons talk, and I like it when the star characters talk to them (Like Breakdown did).

    Autoroopers and Autotroopers are cool too. Again, because they're actually alive.

    If they're mindless drones, they're just cannon fodder and nothing more, ever. That's boring. I like that I can assign personalities to my Autotroopers and Prime Vehicons.
     
  3. Noideaforaname

    Noideaforaname Pico, let's go up to Zuma

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    I don't mind generics like those in WfC/FoC or the Prime Vehicons, where they are clearly individuals despite being treated as pure fodder, but I prefer my Bots and Cons to be distinct from each other. One of the appeals of Transformers is that it has armies of characters.
     
  4. AMG

    AMG Old School

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    I don't like cannon fodder in my Transformers media.
     
  5. PolythenePrime

    PolythenePrime Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually quite fine with the generic bots present within the games. They are fodder, but are still shown to have individuality at a certain level. Fodder works in games, but when it comes to comics, TV and movies, I would prefer armies of star characters.
     
  6. Digilaut

    Digilaut I'm Mary Poppins, y'all!

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    I don't mind if there are *some* drones here and there. Maybe some Transformers have control over their own little squads...but overall, I'd definitely like most of the troops to be individual characters with their own sparks.

    I think the importance of the war is highly diminished when it turns out the Transformers are mostly just using drones to fight their battles. :p 

    Yeah, and honestly: there's just no other way to handle it in videogames.
    You're interacting with lots of characters (read: murdering them! Yay!), and there is simply no time and money to make them all (or most) individual. That's alot of wasted workforce, and a game engine would not even be able to render all those highly individual models on screen all at once. It's actually a craft to make the cannon fodder in games specific enough for them to evoke character, but generic enough so you won't get the feeling you ran into the same character multiple times. I think High Moon definitely suceeded with that in FOC (although I secretly wish I'd seen even more robots I recognize from the cartoons running around :)  )

    I love to pretend all the guys that get killed all around you are characters that are just as important and individual as Hound, Bumblebee, Huffer, etc. etc. They just never lived long enough to make it to Earth and become part of what we now feel is the core cast of Transformers characters. (I guess this makes the characters we do know and love more like a list of really, really lucky survivors :lol ).



    The same is true for 3D animation for cartoons: although rendering is much less of a problem, you still don't have enough time and money to design a whole array of individual robots. Hence: drones!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  7. gregles

    gregles quintesson

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    I don't mind the way they are used in prime, in fact the use of them in the trailer for the next episode is complete genius.

    it would be great to have armies of individuals but that can be a problem from storytelling point of view giving all those characters screen time and personalities which you care about yet at the same time they are likely to be cannon fodder. I think beast wars had the right idea which most successful cartoons have copied, get a small but really varied and different cast so you care about each character equally.
     
  8. gregles

    gregles quintesson

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    I don't mind the way they are used in prime, in fact the use of them in the trailer for the next episode is complete genius.

    it would be great to have armies of individuals but that can be a problem from storytelling point of view giving all those characters screen time and personalities which you care about yet at the same time they are likely to be cannon fodder. I think beast wars had the right idea which most successful cartoons have copied, get a small but really varied and different cast so you care about each character equally.
     
  9. Digilaut

    Digilaut I'm Mary Poppins, y'all!

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    I have to agree, Megatron throwing the wrong Vehicon off the ship next episode is simply hilarious!

    I'm not the biggest fan of Transformers Prime (and that's the understatement of the year), but I think there's some irony in a show which I personally find highly generic, has generic troops that are really awesome design-wise. :D 


    Oh, speaking of the Vehicons in Prime: one thing that is slightly bothering me: they are shown to be individual characters, which makes Arcee a super hypocrite. She's constantly yammering that the Cons killed her partner(s), yet it's the Autobots (death count: ONE) that are constantly slaughtering hordes and hordes of Vehicons :lol 
     
  10. gregles

    gregles quintesson

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    the ins and outs of the vehicons hasn't been elaborated on yet but maybe they are kind of hive minded were they have a kind of collective conciousness and spark were any one can speak for all. What do you think?
     
  11. soundwave142

    soundwave142 Decepticon over-seer

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    Vehicons in prime are probably seen as lower form of cybertronians and are probably protoform clone and therefore aren't seen as True cybertronians..that's my theory cause I believe one episode arcee called a vehicon a drone
     
  12. dunerunner123

    dunerunner123 Optipottamus prime

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    to be honest i am not a fan of clones, mindless drones, or even identical drones with personalities like the vehicons. I prefer to have an army with actual individual troops with personality, they dont all have to be characters, but different designs would help show that they are indivuals rather than have them all look like vehicons. The problem is, it would cost far to much to create dozens of character models just for the background, but at least the vehicons have individual personalities.

    oh and another thing, whenever i play Foc campaign. i like to imagine all the generics are actual characters, so when optimus walks into the room with all the autobots killed by starscream, i like to think they are characters that optimus might have known from another time. same with when megatron executed those two autobots in front of optimus, I like to pretend they are characters like bumblebee or hound. not literally those characters in particular, just as if they were main autobots in general
     
  13. PolythenePrime

    PolythenePrime Well-Known Member

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    The generic bots shown seem to have personality, and even are familiar with the main characters so I have no problem with them.
     
  14. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    I like how in WFC/FOC the nameless generics are just that: nameless generics. They aren't mindless drones, they are the basic foot troop who doesn't rate the notoriety of Optimus or Megatron. I'm totally down with grunts, just not stuff like the purple domehead Mysterio looking dudes from Key to Vector Sigma.
     
  15. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Drones suck, in every single way you could possibly consider. The only reason they exist is because it:
    A) eases animation costs for cartoons and games, and
    B) depersonalizes the "bad guys" so that the good guys can cut them to pieces without offending the family demographic.

    Other than that, they offer nothing. Armies of unique Transformers with their own personal fears, agendas and goals are waaaay more interesting, even if they're just low-pay "genericons" (as we've seen explored in IDW). Plus, they're just INCREDIBLY BORING.

    Also, after 4 million years of war and resource depletion, does it really make any sense to employ disposable drone soldiers? I kind of like the way the Cybertronian race has been greatly diminished and reduced almost to 2 feuding clans. There are no truly faceless warriors anymore. Everybody is a somebody, who has managed to survive this long because Cybertronians don't go down that easily.

    zmog
     
  16. PolythenePrime

    PolythenePrime Well-Known Member

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    I like this perspective. Displays a very primal view of the cybertronian civil wars, how it has reduced the species as a whole to depressing amounts.
     
  17. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    Whether they're sparkless or or not, I got sick of generics a couple of episodes into TFP. No matter what, the Decepticons always loose. Having a bunch of useless soldiers that die in mass every episode just adds insult to injury. Maybe some generic Autobots would soften the blow but that never happens.
     
  18. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    I hate the concept of non-living drone soldiers. I don't mind the same bodytype, as we get that all the time as is just applied to a larger homogenous effect, such as patrols of Autotroopers or some squads of Vehicons.

    With the line about resource depletion I see the idea coming back "into style" so to say, since instead of having all these unique parts, they simply transplant the badly damaged into a universal frame that they can construct and repair with greater ease, rendering less successful and formerly unique transformers who are downed but recovered are transfered into a "mass produced" new body so that they can get back on the field faster and have a greater pool of shared parts to repair with.

    Obviously that would only apply to the lower ranks on both sides, but it would explain how as the war went on, we begin seeing more of the same body type repetitively.
     
  19. LegendAntihero

    LegendAntihero Banned

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    Agreed. Lots of 80s tv shows used robots that way. It was so bad that, I kid you not, the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon used ninja robots. That was just so tacky.
     
  20. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    I don't like samey-troops like Prime Vehicons. It's sort of...confusing. The Transformers are this incredibly diverse race of unique individuals who all look and function completely different... and then you have an endless army of guys who look the same but act like individuals? How does that make sense? I've heard people say they're rebuilt into similar bodies but that seems counter-productive. Now all these uniquely suited individuals with varied skills and methods all have one limiting function and design. At least with BM Vehicons they were mindless mass-produced drones so it made sense.

    Though personally I don't like massive armies at all. I prefer small teams where each member has something unique about them. I don't like the bad guys outnumbering good guy just because they have an army of the same guy to save on animation. Especially if said army is completey ineffective at every level and is destroyed by the heroes time and again. Then it's just completely pointless and lazy storytelling. An army doesn't always make the bad guys look threatening to me. It usually just makes the writers seem like they're out of creative ways to make the villains look geuinely competant.

    I'd really prefer if we could just get one series these days that has no generic masses of lookalikes.
     

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