Triple Changers in WFC2

Discussion in 'Transformers Video Game Discussion' started by scorpio-prime, Jul 26, 2011.

  1. scorpio-prime

    scorpio-prime Dreamer with fists

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    Following on from my Gestalt thread, the heres some ideas of how to implement another well known class of TF.

    Triple Changers are easily more straightforward than Gestalts, simply being alterations of the mechanics you're already used to, with a few nerfs here and there to better balance them.

    'How do you transform into each mode?'

    Using the PS3 controls as an example, your ground vehicle transformation is covered by L3 as usual, the air vehicle is assigned to UP on the D-Pad, and obviously you can switch between the three modes in any order you choose.

    'Won't it get confusing knowing how to activate each mode?'

    Not after a little practice:

    Car < L3 < Jet < UP > Springer < L3 > Car > UP > Jet

    'Isn't Springer a Helicopter?'

    Whilst I'd like to see a Helicopter mode, for the sake of this thread we'll assume that his aerial mode functions as a Jet, but is designed to look alot like an alien Helicopter (ditto Sandstorm).

    'Isn't it a little unfair them having all those vehicle weapons?'

    Triple Changers have only half the ammunition in such weapons as a regular class would have, so Astrotrains truck mode (designed to closely resemble a steam train, of course) only carries 20 rockets in Escalation etc.

    'Won't they be broken in Multiplayer?'

    Triple Changers fall into a unique Multiplayer class called 'Hybrid' which is basically a combination of whichever two chassis the TC possesses - however, as a cloaked Scientist would no doubt be broken, as would one which can War Cry, Hybrids can only choose from the less abusable weapons/abilities of those two classes, so Springer and Sandstorm (Hybrid Scout) could choose say:

    Weapons:
    Energon Battle Pistol
    Scatter Blaster
    Neutron Assault Rifle
    Photon Burst Rifle

    Abilities:
    Decoy
    Dash
    Shockwave
    Spawn Sentry

    Killstreaks:
    3 - Health Matrix
    5 - Adrenaline
    7 - Orbital Beacon 2.0

    Octane/Astrotrain (Hybrid Leader):

    Weapons:
    Energon Battle Pistol
    Ion Blaster
    Neutron Assault Rifle
    Photon Burst Rifle

    Abilities:
    Barrier
    Disruptor
    Shockwave
    Spawn Sentry

    Killstreaks:
    3 - Intercooler
    5 - Overshield Matrix
    7 - Thermo Mine Respawner

    Blitzwing/Broadside (Hybrid Soldier):

    Weapons:
    Thermo Rocket Launcher
    Scrapmaker
    Neutron Assault Rifle
    Photon Burst Rifle

    Abilities:
    Energon Sling
    Hover
    Shockwave
    Spawn Sentry

    Killstreaks:
    3 - Ammo Matrix
    5 - Energon Pulse
    7 - Nucleon Shock Cannon

    Hybrids get 4 energy bars, regardless of chassis

    Despite taking a little extra work to put in the game design wise, I reckon Triple Changers would prove a big hit.
     
  2. DJCHARTERS

    DJCHARTERS Well-Known Member

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    i always thought the easiest way would be to use the same key and have it dependand on how many times its pressed. say on th e xbox i have the y as the change forms button so say press y once and change to car. press a 2nd t ime to change to jet and press once more to change to robot form again. i hope that makes sense, it keeps the buttons easy and gives you the ability to change fast between your forms.
     
  3. Demonss

    Demonss Well-Known Member

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    Being that there is a transformation animation, one tap = first mode, quick tap (ie a second tap before TF animation is complete) puts it in the second mode. and then from either mode a single tap back would get you back to robot mode, and a double tap would put you back into the other alt mode.
     
  4. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    That'd be simpler, but I don't like the idea of having to toggle through different modes.

    I'd like to have one button for car, and one button for jet. That way you can seamlessly change from car to jet, or jet to car, or car to robot, or jet to robot, or whatever.

    Another way would be to use combinations. Maybe have one transform button, that switches between robot and car, but holding it down in combination with 'up'(or some other button) turns into the jet.

    Incidentally, I've never liked using L3 to transform.
     
  5. Dirge121

    Dirge121 Eat the chikums

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    I think it could be done, but if it is it will probably be treated like Stealth Force/Vehicle mode.

    Press LS/L3 to transform to a vehicle mode designed for combat (like a tank) then hold LT/L2 to switch to your faster vehicle form (say, a car).

    If you're expecting to be switching from car to jet to robot you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
     
  6. The F.N.G.

    The F.N.G. Well-Known Member

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    Let me try and suggest a simpler method, as yours seems a little complex, IMO. Everything that follows will be using the Xbox 360 WFC controls, as I'm familiar with the 360, and I doubt the controls would change much between WFC and WFC2. As his alt-modes fit into the WFC class-system quite easily, I'm going to use Blitzwing for my example. I'll detail all three modes (Robot, Tank, and Jet) and then suggest a method for Triple-Changing.

    Robot Mode: Blitzwings robot mode would function the same as every other character class. Walk with the left stick, look with the right. Right trigger for shooting, aiming with the left. Jump, reload, use abilities, etc. All identical to non Triple-Changers. Click left stick to transform into alt-mode. We'll start with the Tank.

    Tank Mode: Pretty much identical to the tank mode of the Soldier class. Move, shoot, 180* spin etc. Maybe 7 rounds for the cannon, instead of the Soldiers 10. Cannon delivers 75% damage compared to a Soldier. While the right stick is used for Melee attacks in Robot mode, it doesn't do anything in alt-mode. We'll use it to change between forms.

    Jet Mode: Like the Tank, Jet mode is identical to the Scientist class. Flight capable, barrel rolls, etc. Jet machine guns fire at 75% speed compared to a Scientist. Left stick returns you to robot mode, right turns you back into a Tank.

    Back in Robot mode, you'll have an indicator at the bottom center of your screen. Two small icons that represent your alt-modes, in Blitzwings case, a tank and a jet. There will be a box around the alt-mode you were last using. When you transform back into alt-mode, that will be the form you'll become. At spawn, one will be preselected at random.

    As for trying to find a balance for abilities and weapons between all Triple-Changers, I say go the DOTM route for them. A separate class, referred to as either "Triple-Changer" or "Hybrid", with preset weapons and abilities depending on the character chosen. The upgrades would still be modifiable by the player, however. Health would be somewhere between the classes that the two alt-modes represent.

    So Blitzwing, with his Tank and Jet alt-modes, would be a Soldier/Scientist hybrid. Health would be that of a Leader (not too strong and not too weak). Abilities would be the Soldiers "Hover" and the Scientists "Shockwave". For weapons, he would have the Photon Burst Rifle (Scientist) and the X12 Scrapmaker (Soldier).

    Thus ends my random theory. Hopefully this makes sense to some people.
     
  7. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    well, my feeling is that if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. And if it could be done, then why not do it?

    But yeah, I know from experience that it's always best to moderate expectations. Even with just two modes TF games don't always get the controls right. Going in with preconceived notions about how something should be handled is the surest way of guaranteeing disappointment.
     
  8. Kaymac

    Kaymac I'M REALLY FEELIN' IT!

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    I say to keep things balanced, the Hybrid Class has an ability already picked out for LB/L1 that allows you to transform into an aerial form. It's permanently picked, as a triple changer with two abilities would be broken. The other ability is the one you pick out. The ability for either vehicle mode isn't a barrel roll or a quick turn, etc. it's simply to transform into the other vehicle, with LS/L3 dedicated to transforming to robot mode.
     
  9. scorpio-prime

    scorpio-prime Dreamer with fists

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    How so? My flowchart describes a very simple process - if you're in Robot or Car mode, UP will always transform you into a Jet, if you're already in Jet mode, then UP will transform you back into a Robot, just as L3 would if you were a Car. No need for double pressing this and that at a precise moment as people have suggested - around 30 seconds practice with the set up I've suggested, and you'd be leaping up a stairway, racing across a collapsing bridge and then blasting over the edge and flying away, all without having to think for even a moment.

    How would they? They have vehicle ammo limits as I've suggested, limiting the effectiveness of each mode individually and necessitating the kind of varied, fast switching playstyle as would be expected of a character with multiple modes, and also less (immediately) effective weapons and abilities. If anything, having seen the vastly limited tactics so many players online employ, once the inherent novelty has worn off Triple Changers would rapidly find themselves designated as a class for the more dedicated of online players.

    I remember when I used to play the old Armada game on the PS2, you could pick up a Minicon which gave you a pair of wings when activated and thus enabled flight, so basically with him equipped you had three modes - I remember having a great time racing toward cliff edges at top speed in Car mode, rapidly changing to Robot as I reached the edge and jumping, before activating Wing mode and gliding along. Basically, what I'm suggesting was done successfully 7 years ago and it worked beautifully, and is a feature which would be fantastic if added to this game.
     
  10. The F.N.G.

    The F.N.G. Well-Known Member

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    I guess it's just my preference towards keeping my thumbs on the sticks and not removing them unless I absolutely have to. I find that having the transformation on the sticks to be a quick and easy place to access it, and releasing the stick to transform wouldn't feel as smooth, IMO.
     
  11. guard convoy

    guard convoy The Big Daddy

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    for triple changers you can have transformation regulated to the d-pad period

    one thing that comes to mind is the robotech game that came out for the PS2 in the early 2000's where the up arrow went to robot, left went to jet, and right to gerwalk

    it would just be a suggestion, i honestly enjoyed that, even if you do suffer the problem of forgetting which is the right button to hit for which mode
     
  12. StarYoshi14

    StarYoshi14 Well-Known Member

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    I like the F.N.G.'s idea. Melee stick doesn't do anything in vehicle, so I could so how it would work. Another idea was to give the vehicle mode a second ability that would turn them into the other alt mode. The vehicles could use the left back trigger to transform from tank to jet (still going off Blitzwing example). Triple changers might be kinda fun, but they would need to be tweaked a ton to make sure they are not over or underpowered. I could see Triple changers only having one robot weapon or ability to compensate.

    Still, it would be worth it to fly behind enemy lines and good a get angle to annihilate a group with the tank cannon, all the while listening to a Transformers Animated-esque Blitzwing revel in his own insanity.
     
  13. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Yes.

    I'd love Helicopters and Motorcycles in WFC as well.
     
  14. scorpio-prime

    scorpio-prime Dreamer with fists

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    That is a good point, in order to make the gameplay experience as smooth as possible it is best if you minimise/remove the need to change your grip when executing a command. Perhaps holding SQUARE (all it does is reload, so it wouldn't cause any undesired action to take place) while clicking L3 instead of taking your thumb off the stick and pressing UP would flow better.
     

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