Transforming or Morphing?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Incepticon, Sep 26, 2006.

  1. Incepticon

    Incepticon Double Agent

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    This post may indirectly give away some movie spoilers, so read at your own risk.

    I've been in a lot of discussions lately with people who think that, based on the current TF designs we've seen so far, that they may end up morphing more than actually transforming per se. This theory is mainly due to the designs we've seen of Prime and Megatron. Prime in robot mode, only based on what we've seen so far, has virtually nothing resembling the sheer bulk or mechanics of his alt truck mode. Hardly any right angles or corners, just pieces scattered randomly all over him. And the same thing with Megatron. Even with his alt mode being some sort of alien looking Cybertronian jet, his robot form suggests nothing to the effect that he actually transforms into something mechanically vehicular in nature (alien or not).

    Then there's the situation with how Bumblebee changes from a classic Camero to a new Camero in the movie. Based on the leaked (supposedly outdated) script, it has nothing to do with being blown apart and/or rebuilt. The main character kids in the movie make fun of his car mode being an old pile of shit, so BB scans a new Camero and modifies himself on the spot. The way it's explained in the script is that all the dents & scratched paint just kind of disappear, flush out & brighten - and then voila! - he's a new car.

    Based on those factors, it kind of makes sense why the transforming vs morphing debate has been brought up by people. Transforming as we typically know it means parts shift position, move around, etc. to make a new form. Whereas morphing is basically just a process of blending & bending from one form to another (ie: the T-1000 or whatever it was called in Terminator 2) that looks liquid in nature.

    So, if Bay & ILM take the morphing approach instead of the usual transforming process that I'm sure most of us expect, how will TF fans will react to it? I know it would piss me off something aweful, but I'm worried that all the people who are so easily convinced by the TF movie team of spin doctors pushing & emphasizing the "but they're *alien*" arguement will just let it go without debate... IF it happens that is.

    I dunno... comment or thoughts?
     
  2. Ziero

    Ziero TFW2005 Supporter

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    I can see them Transform. You don't *need* the giant 'right angles' of the older bots when you get to the size these things are. If a 6" toy can have such small joints to change with, why wouldn't the 30' versions have similarly sized joints at some points in their builds.

    This seems to be the main complaint with people who don't like the designs, they 'can't tell how it changes'. That's because these people are looking at them with the same eyes that look at the 6" versions. These things are HUGE in the movie, with hundreds of thousands of individual moving parts. And it's not just the external car that's transforming, the internal workings of these vehicle, the exhaust systems, engine blocks, frame work, all of that, changes with them and intergrates itself into the fully changed robot.

    The biggest problem is people are looking at these complex designs in a simplistic way, and that's why they can't see how it works.
     
  3. paskal

    paskal SHWOOOO!!

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    They will transform.
     
  4. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    The filmmakers have stated there will be no cheating or mass-shifting in their transformations.

    I'm not going to doubt them just because my toy-based brain can't figure it out by looking at concept drawings. I couldn't figure out Masterpiece Prime based on photos either, and he's 28 times smaller than the live-action Prime. Why would their transformations cost half a million each if it's just a wad of melting parts? It's freaking ILM. They're gonna do their homework, and they're going to put all 3D fan-made transformations to shame. But there are going to be people who hate the film's transformations, and insist the 5-moving-parts fanmade stuff is 100 times better. There are people who don't want to see anything that doesn't resemble the toys or cartoons that are fused into their brain from the age of five. There are people who can't get past the notion that these are the first transformers ever made who aren't based on $5-$40 toys for ages five and up. If we could look at the ILM concept scetches and figure them out, then ILM would really be slacking off.

    If the transformations don't look real in the film, or look like cheating, I will be sorely disappointed.
     
  5. HyperGeek_1984

    HyperGeek_1984 Herr Doktor

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    From what I can tell of the designs, this is exactly how they transform, but on a much larger (or smaller, depending on how you look at it) scale.

    As Zie said, 15-35 foot robots don't have the same problems with small parts and super-complex transformations that a 6 inch plastic figure has. Given their size, they can get away with having lots of (proportionally) small parts. Keep the proportions and scale everything down to something 12-4 inches tall and it becomes impossibly delicate.
     
  6. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    Every transformer for the past twenty years has been hindered by three things: scale is a factor (mentioned largely here), but also cost to build and target audience. Barring Fortress Maximus and the other big bots, nearly every Transformer that's gone to market for the past 20 years has been 12 inches or shorter, had to cost $40 or less, and be operated by five year olds. Given that none of these limitations apply, Is it any surprise that ILM's robots for a 2007 live-action movie are infinitely more complex?
     
  7. Incepticon

    Incepticon Double Agent

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    Great points, specificially about how there is more room for the parts to move & shift around being that their "real life" scale is so much bigger. I do hope though, that if it's a series of panels flipping & flopping & tucking & moving to form a vehicle, that it's not *too* excessive or ridiculous. IE: like 2000 panels all moving at the same time so that the actual transformations themselves kind of get lost in the shuffle. If you know what I mean.
     
  8. Ziero

    Ziero TFW2005 Supporter

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    Well that's more or less what I see happening. BB's car hood for example is broken up into at *least* five different parts, three of which are cleary visable on the robot. Unlike the original TF's whose car parts in robot mode could be counted on one hand, the 'skins' of the cars in this movie will be broken up into much smaller pieces. This not only makes the design more complex, but also allows much more flexibilty on the part of the actual robot.

    I imagine that most people still won't understand the full transformation after seeing it one or two times. But after studying it a bit and seeing it in detail from different angles, it will all make sense. It's like a Jigsaw puzzle, the small, flat cheap ones can be figured out in minutes by someone smart. But the bigger they get, more parts they use and more dimensions they have, the harder they are to figure out.
     
  9. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    When I see 1,000 piece puzzles I become furious, screaming that there's no way it can possibly go together without melting the pieces in a fire. Then, I throw the puzzle to floor and tell everyone it totally missed the concept and aesthetic of all puzzles worldwide. :) 
     
  10. OmegaVPrimus

    OmegaVPrimus Well-Known Member

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    You know what, this brings me back to what we were talking about in robotics class the other day, I had brung up transformin robots to my teacher, and he said that because of weight issues with parts and such that the possibilites are very unlikley, but at the same time a small 10 inch robot can do it quite efficiently. Know I guess you have to have extremley reliable parts to transform a car, but what I was getting to is that morphing an object is changeing its appearance by using a substance or a form of matter to construct, so I think these transformers actualy do transform, they just do a lot of transforming. I think ILM will do as they said and alow each and every part to play an extremely important role in turning a normal vehicle or cybertronian vehicle into a huminoid. I wonder how good the technologie bay speaks of will aid in this movie????
     
  11. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I'm no scientist, but with things like hub motors and drive-by-wire controls, future designs won't have to be as completely integrated as today's vehicles (wheels to axles to drive trains and so on). Transformations would be much easier as a result (not like GM or Toyota have any plans, unfortunately).
     
  12. Blunticon

    Blunticon The Oddjob

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    O they will Transform! O yes..they will..
     
  13. OmegaVPrimus

    OmegaVPrimus Well-Known Member

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    Good thing we have polymers ^^
     
  14. Team Jetfire

    Team Jetfire Pop-POP!

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    It could be an Action Master movie...
     

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