So I was checking out the "Who would win" thread and watching clips from Deadliest Warrior on Youtube and I got to thinking- Transformers vs... Transformers? WHO IS DEADLIEST? I for one love vs fights, love Transformers, and hell I love debate. And I certainly love learning things I didn't know before, and I'm always posting comic scans of character feats. So I thought it'd be cool to once a week (so it's not flooding the forums and doesn't get old fast) set up a serious matchup between warriors. And like Deadliest Warrior, it can be individual characters, or a small squad/group of related characters. It would also take into account their stats, characteristics, weaknesses and abilities. I figure that to keep it fair posters should post their thoughts and give their ideas for fights to be discussed, and then once a consensus is reached the fight will be set up and a winner could be determined later as MOST DEADLY. Rinse and Repeat. Defeat When a character is either knocked out, killed, removed from the battlefield for a lengthy period of time, or maimed beyond fighting ability, it counts as a win for the other character. Art Style and the context of fights It is important that the context of events is taken in to consideration. As well as author’s drawing style. For example, collateral damage in one arc is not always with the one before it. But if the context of the story says they got stronger, then they did. As for art style, characters in one series can seem slower than one of another while not actually being slower. Calculations Simple things are understandable but please don’t post calculations that are too complex. The author would rarely attempt to take things like that into consideration. Powerscaling Is the act of scaling a character’s powers or abilities from a weaker incarnation of the said character or a weaker character all together. Of course, unique abilities, even if belonging to a weaker character, do not apply. This is generally used to give a good idea of a character’s power when he is generally featless, and is an idea you should get accustomed to in Vs debates. As this is a comparative analysis, you must determine how stronger character A is from character B, then you have to compare the gap between B and A to another gap in a different situation to compare the two properly. An example of solid powerscaling: G1 Optimus Prime << Power Master Optimus Galvatron >=< Power Master Optimus so G1 Megatron << Power Master Optimus Outside Help No form whatsoever of outside help from separate characters is allowed in a fight where the separate characters were not meant to be present by the OP. For example, you cannot say Springer wins a fight for Arcee because he would not let her die. Unless the OP specifies, outside help is not allowed. If a fight is intended to feature a team or combiner it must be mentioned. Plot Induced Stupidity Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS as some call it, is when a character either over performs or under performs solely due to plot restrictions. An actual plot restriction would be when Unicron can't just eat the universe because it would end the story. Character Induced Stupidity Character Induced Stupidity is when a character does something that directly causes them to be less effective in a fight. An example of this would be Optimus pausing before finishing off Megatron or Megatron ignoring Starscream's treachery only to be shot in the back. Please note that a character having CIS removed does not mean that they will completely change tactics. This should be discounted in actual fights. In-Character Being in-character means that a character will perform the same way they do in the source material. Being out of character means that they will employ tactics they rarely or never use. For example, if Megatron is in-character, he wouldn't likely use his anti-matter powers. However if he was out of character, he would attempt this even if he might kill himself in the process. A character is usually expected to perform the same way they do in the source material although it can be specified if a character should act out of character. Bloodlust Bloodlust refers to a character having intent to kill. Optimus Prime would never attempt to kill his opponent mercilessly. However, in it is assumed that he’ll be going all out instead of vastly holding back. This does not mean he’ll employ out of character tactics like shoving his gun down a character’s throat. It is normally assumed a character is bloodlusted. Of course, this does not refer to being out of character. If a fight has both sides, or just one side, bloodlusted it must be stated so. Fallacies It is important to remember logical fallacies when debating. Fallacies Standard Equipment A character is assumed to have their standard equipment in a versus thread unless it is specified otherwise. For example, it’ll be assumed that Megatron has his Fusion Cannon but not the Heart of Cybertron. Assumed Battlefield 1) It’ll be assumed that the combatants are fighting in a generic, abandoned city that exists in a neutral universe identical to our own except it allows characters to use the full extent of their abilities just in case they are weakened in what would be considered the normal universe. 2) They’ll start on a street in the city’s center with a distance of ten meters between them. 3) It’ll be assumed that the time of day is one that’ll prove neutral for both characters. No Bias Claims Don’t say that Batman can Thor because he’s a better character or anything like that. Canon/Non Canon Sources What is canon? As far as fiction is concerned, canon is a term that describes the genuineness of events that have taken place in fiction. The events that actually takes place in a fictional setting is referred to as canon. Now what events doesn’t you may ask yourself? Well there’s no absolute authority and it’s generally up to the reader to decide for himself how he wishes to interpret the material available. However, in a community which focuses on debating fiction there has to be certain truces. The general method of this principle is, if a work is written, directed or recognized by the owner of the setting, then it’s canon. Otherwise it isn’t until proven otherwise. In other words, the Lord of the Rings movies would be considered non-canon because while Peter Jackson bought the license to make the movies he does not legally own the franchise. So, technically you would not be allowed to use the movie version of the characters in a Lord of the Rings related thread. And while you wouldn’t be faulted for using the movie versions you should keep in mind that you’re not dealing with what’s considered actual canon. If you wanted to use the movie-version you'd have to specify it. Now what’s primary-, secondary- and tertiary canon? When we refer to canon we’re solely focusing on the primary canon. Secondary- and tertiary canon are works that have been recognized by the original owner but in one way or another contradict the original work. A good example would be Dragonball, the original manga is considered primary canon. The anime is considered secondary canon and the movies are considered tertiary canon. Now when using other canons that primary canon (by specifying it in the opening post) keep in mind that primary canon is a subset of secondary canon, and secondary canon in turn is a subset of tertiary canon. In other words, If you’re using a Dragonball movie character in a thread then not only the movie material is accepted in that debate, but also the anime- and manga material. Examine at the Venn diagram below. Unless it is stated otherwise, only the primary canon of a continuity/series will be used. Although, there are certain exceptions to this description. An example of this would be Doctor Who canon, as a lot of the audio books, comics, and etc. are in fact, canon. Transformers tends to be more inclusive than exclusive. Specifics regarding continuity and/or series should exist before a fight, and composites are also allowed. See Transformers Canon and Continuity. You're encouraged to post comic scans and videos of character feats to back up your side. Simple one sentence answers without analysis are meaningless. Explain why you chose an opponent, give support, or add on to a previous point made by another. Once a victor is chosen in one fight, this topic will be updated and past discussions will be archived. And again you can pick opponents across continuities. Please no rapestomps or spite matches.