Transformers: WHO - IS - DEADLIEST?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Cobalt Agent, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    So I was checking out the "Who would win" thread and watching clips from Deadliest Warrior on Youtube and I got to thinking- Transformers vs... Transformers? WHO IS DEADLIEST? I for one love vs fights, love Transformers, and hell I love debate. And I certainly love learning things I didn't know before, and I'm always posting comic scans of character feats.

    So I thought it'd be cool to once a week (so it's not flooding the forums and doesn't get old fast) set up a serious matchup between warriors. And like Deadliest Warrior, it can be individual characters, or a small squad/group of related characters. It would also take into account their stats, characteristics, weaknesses and abilities. I figure that to keep it fair posters should post their thoughts and give their ideas for fights to be discussed, and then once a consensus is reached the fight will be set up and a winner could be determined later as MOST DEADLY. Rinse and Repeat.

    Defeat
    When a character is either knocked out, killed, removed from the battlefield for a lengthy period of time, or maimed beyond fighting ability, it counts as a win for the other character.

    Art Style and the context of fights
    It is important that the context of events is taken in to consideration. As well as author’s drawing style. For example, collateral damage in one arc is not always with the one before it. But if the context of the story says they got stronger, then they did. As for art style, characters in one series can seem slower than one of another while not actually being slower.

    Calculations
    Simple things are understandable but please don’t post calculations that are too complex. The author would rarely attempt to take things like that into consideration.

    Powerscaling
    Is the act of scaling a character’s powers or abilities from a weaker incarnation of the said character or a weaker character all together.

    Of course, unique abilities, even if belonging to a weaker character, do not apply.

    This is generally used to give a good idea of a character’s power when he is generally featless, and is an idea you should get accustomed to in Vs debates.

    As this is a comparative analysis, you must determine how stronger character A is from character B, then you have to compare the gap between B and A to another gap in a different situation to compare the two properly.

    An example of solid powerscaling:

    G1 Optimus Prime << Power Master Optimus
    Galvatron >=< Power Master Optimus
    so G1 Megatron << Power Master Optimus


    Outside Help
    No form whatsoever of outside help from separate characters is allowed in a fight where the separate characters were not meant to be present by the OP. For example, you cannot say Springer wins a fight for Arcee because he would not let her die. Unless the OP specifies, outside help is not allowed. If a fight is intended to feature a team or combiner it must be mentioned.


    Plot Induced Stupidity
    Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS as some call it, is when a character either over performs or under performs solely due to plot restrictions. An actual plot restriction would be when Unicron can't just eat the universe because it would end the story.

    Character Induced Stupidity
    Character Induced Stupidity is when a character does something that directly causes them to be less effective in a fight. An example of this would be Optimus pausing before finishing off Megatron or Megatron ignoring Starscream's treachery only to be shot in the back. Please note that a character having CIS removed does not mean that they will completely change tactics. This should be discounted in actual fights.

    In-Character
    Being in-character means that a character will perform the same way they do in the source material. Being out of character means that they will employ tactics they rarely or never use. For example, if Megatron is in-character, he wouldn't likely use his anti-matter powers. However if he was out of character, he would attempt this even if he might kill himself in the process. A character is usually expected to perform the same way they do in the source material although it can be specified if a character should act out of character.

    Bloodlust
    Bloodlust refers to a character having intent to kill. Optimus Prime would never attempt to kill his opponent mercilessly. However, in it is assumed that he’ll be going all out instead of vastly holding back. This does not mean he’ll employ out of character tactics like shoving his gun down a character’s throat. It is normally assumed a character is bloodlusted. Of course, this does not refer to being out of character. If a fight has both sides, or just one side, bloodlusted it must be stated so.

    Fallacies
    It is important to remember logical fallacies when debating. Fallacies

    Standard Equipment
    A character is assumed to have their standard equipment in a versus thread unless it is specified otherwise. For example, it’ll be assumed that Megatron has his Fusion Cannon but not the Heart of Cybertron.

    Assumed Battlefield
    1) It’ll be assumed that the combatants are fighting in a generic, abandoned city that exists in a neutral universe identical to our own except it allows characters to use the full extent of their abilities just in case they are weakened in what would be considered the normal universe.
    2) They’ll start on a street in the city’s center with a distance of ten meters between them.
    3) It’ll be assumed that the time of day is one that’ll prove neutral for both characters.


    No Bias Claims

    Don’t say that Batman can Thor because he’s a better character or anything like that.

    Canon/Non Canon Sources
    What is canon? As far as fiction is concerned, canon is a term that describes the genuineness of events that have taken place in fiction. The events that actually takes place in a fictional setting is referred to as canon. Now what events doesn’t you may ask yourself? Well there’s no absolute authority and it’s generally up to the reader to decide for himself how he wishes to interpret the material available. However, in a community which focuses on debating fiction there has to be certain truces.

    The general method of this principle is, if a work is written, directed or recognized by the owner of the setting, then it’s canon. Otherwise it isn’t until proven otherwise.

    In other words, the Lord of the Rings movies would be considered non-canon because while Peter Jackson bought the license to make the movies he does not legally own the franchise. So, technically you would not be allowed to use the movie version of the characters in a Lord of the Rings related thread. And while you wouldn’t be faulted for using the movie versions you should keep in mind that you’re not dealing with what’s considered actual canon. If you wanted to use the movie-version you'd have to specify it.

    Now what’s primary-, secondary- and tertiary canon? When we refer to canon we’re solely focusing on the primary canon. Secondary- and tertiary canon are works that have been recognized by the original owner but in one way or another contradict the original work. A good example would be Dragonball, the original manga is considered primary canon. The anime is considered secondary canon and the movies are considered tertiary canon. Now when using other canons that primary canon (by specifying it in the opening post) keep in mind that primary canon is a subset of secondary canon, and secondary canon in turn is a subset of tertiary canon. In other words, If you’re using a Dragonball movie character in a thread then not only the movie material is accepted in that debate, but also the anime- and manga material. Examine at the Venn diagram below.

    [​IMG]

    Unless it is stated otherwise, only the primary canon of a continuity/series will be used.

    Although, there are certain exceptions to this description. An example of this would be Doctor Who canon, as a lot of the audio books, comics, and etc. are in fact, canon. Transformers tends to be more inclusive than exclusive.

    Specifics regarding continuity and/or series should exist before a fight, and composites are also allowed.

    See Transformers Canon and Continuity.


    You're encouraged to post comic scans and videos of character feats to back up your side. Simple one sentence answers without analysis are meaningless. Explain why you chose an opponent, give support, or add on to a previous point made by another.

    Once a victor is chosen in one fight, this topic will be updated and past discussions will be archived. And again you can pick opponents across continuities. Please no rapestomps or spite matches.
     
  2. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    I'd like to suggest Marvel Galvatron I vs Powermaster Optimus Prime.
    [​IMG]

    I think it'd be interesting to see a bloodlusted fight between the two that didn't end with a time-space vortex ending it prematurely.
     
  3. TwilightNero

    TwilightNero Maximal

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    PM prime For sure
    PM Prime has the ultimate power

    Movie Optimus Vs everyother transformers
     
  4. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    Just to be clear this the staging thread, not the debate thread. Unless it's a total rapestomp or it's already been proven, there shouldn't be definitive claims made yet; this is reserved for promoting match ups to be considered. And what exactly do you mean by every other transformers? All other Transformers, or every other Prime, because either would be a rape/spite battle.
     
  5. TwilightNero

    TwilightNero Maximal

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    yea, I know Movie Optimus would win lol (proudly supports psycho prime for all the wrong reasons)

    I meant the Powermaster prime/Ginrai has 2 power up modes, basically gets stronger the more he wills himself to fight on. He's basically a Gurren Lagann character. Though, there is any real way to "stage" these battles, so it will just break down into debate.
     
  6. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    Alternity Black Convoy would stomp anyone outside of Hytherion, alone or in a group. He takes apart Alternity Megatron with one shot, Unicron is beneath his contempt, and even among the Convoys he's the most vicious of the group.

    How about the Dinobots Vs Predaking, without writer stupidity and plot bias?
     
  7. Rattrap Primal

    Rattrap Primal Geek Overlord

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    G1: Megatron
    G2: Jiaxhus
    BW: Dinobot
    BM: N/A
    Bayverse: Optimus and Bumblebee
     
  8. MisterFanwank

    MisterFanwank Toy Industry Analyst

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    Unicron vs. Wheelie.

    WHO. IS DEADLIEST?

    Unicron can devour planets, but is he a match for a tiny Transformer who's survived eons against insurmountable odds? Can Unicron's antibodies kill Wheelie before Wheelie destroys Unicron from the inside out?
     
  9. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    Action Masters: together they destroyed an entire toyline.
     
  10. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    Actually it's a rape fight because Bay Prime is from one of the weakest series and pitting him against every Prime would be a spite fight because he'd have no chance.

    This isn't a who's the most powerful TF ever thread. It's a who's deadlier than who thread.

    That's actually a decent proposal. Marvel, Cartoon, any specific continuity?

    ...against what opponents?

    That's a rapestomp/spite match.

    That's not a fight.
     
  11. The621

    The621 Fuck you, that's why!

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    Bias claim.

    Are Jap cartoon exclusives allowed?

    And since the cartoon received more recognition worldwide does that make it primary canon? The comics/manga weren't quite mainstream outside the spectrum until what, 2010? So would the comics/manga/whatever fall under tertiary canon?

    I'm pitting two combiners I never got to see deck it out on screen. I'd like to pit...

    G1:
    Raiden vs. King Poseidon

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  12. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    Do either have in-show feats or just profiles and stats?
     
  13. IronicHide

    IronicHide MEME GO HERE

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    Yes. I fully support this thread.

    I'd propose we chuck in ideas here, Cobalt Agent takes his favourite eight or 16 suggestions to start a full tournament and then randomises the match-ups for the first round. We all debate and vote, Cobalt works out a way to decide the winner, who goes on to the next round.

    Essentially, ZooFights for Transformers:
    Zoofights plc - Home

    My suggested entrants would be:
    Shockwave, Grimlock, BW Megatron, TFA Blitzwing
     
  14. KA

    KA Well-Known Member

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    Bumblebee vs wheelie, g1.
     
  15. IronicHide

    IronicHide MEME GO HERE

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    I would never stop watching that fight. Ever.
     
  16. TwilightNero

    TwilightNero Maximal

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    That is your personal bias. Character-wise, movie Optimus isn't the best, but how many decepticons has he killed single-handedly in an almost psychotic energon lust?
     
  17. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    Some I'd like to see:

    • G1 Predacons vs G1 Seacons
    • G1 Frenzy, Ravage and Rumble vs G1 Eject, Rewind and Steeljaw
    • Movieverse Ironhide vs Movieverse Brawl
    • G1 Megatron (or G1 Overlord) vs G1 Straxus
     
  18. grunge

    grunge The TANK

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    Liokaiser vs Magnaboss
     
  19. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Wields Mjolnir!

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    By the original full bios, as you can read at Who's Who in the Transformers Universe
     
  20. mrgalvaprime

    mrgalvaprime #BanTJ

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    actionmasters are awesome!!!!!
     

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