Transformers vs human weapons

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by TFFan01, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    I'm really interested with topics like TF durability, strength etc. nowadays. Weird obsession of mine. I'm just't wondering, what's up with people saying TFs can't be harmed by human weaponary? I have read the entire Marvel series including the UK stuff. There was one instance where Swindle got one shotted by a tank, another where a group of Decepticons involving heavy hitters like Blitzwing and Octane were overhelmed by humans with tanks, helicopters in a military test area where they were clearly getting damaged. One other instance where Starscream had to hide from human jets. Another where a disoriented Cyclonus had to shoot a human jet missile so that the missile didn't hit him or in the G1 cartoon, there was one instance where Decepticons such as Starscream and Soundwave uad to run away from human jet missiles exploding around them. In the first episode, bullets were ineffective on them but they had to destroy the humans' cannons before the humans had a chance to shoot them with said cannons. In a recent IDW comic, Bugly was clearly getting damaged by WW2 plane bullets.

    Yes, Decepticons almost always beat humans but that's because they deal with the humans before the latter has a chance to fight back with heavy weapons.

    Yes, there are also instances where human weapons were ineffective such as the army shooting at Megatron for 15 minutes but he is one of the strongest TFs in existence, not exactly your average TF. There are other instances as well but I notice there are more times where they do receive damage than times where they don't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  2. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

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    You are talking about canon.
    People who don't like Tf's getting hurt by human weapons think it takes away their threatlevel.
     
  3. Rewind Eject

    Rewind Eject Well-Known Member

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    Which is still ridiculous. If we were utterly incapable of destroying them, why would they bother with disguises?
     
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  4. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    That's painting things too black-and-white. The Transformers are living things, robotic as they are, and so they can be killed. But they're also a race accustomed to war for several millenia and so would need armor that could withstand attacks from the opposite side. It doesn't make any sense that pidly human rifles should do anything more except scratch the paint - heavier grade ordanance like bombs and tanks might put a dent or even penetrate the armor, hurting the robots, but such things shouldn't outright kill them. If it was that easy in the first place, then how exactly has this war lasted so long?
     
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  5. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not talking about people wanting TFs to be invulnerable to human tech, I'm saying some people occasionally claim that G1 TF armor is imprevious to human weapons, that is generally not the case.
     
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  6. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the transformer the continuity and its build specks. Speaking for strictly G1 Most of them could be overwhelmed with conventional human large caliber weapons (tanks missiles etc) however I could also see certain ones just laughing their asses over the spectacle: Megatron, Optimus, Magnus, SixShot etc.

    Also the combiners (at least the Decepticon ones) are completely imprevious to even a large amount of TF weaponry thus making them almost immune to human ones.
     
  7. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    So long as you ignore the G1 episode B.O.T. ever happening.

    Which is easy because everybody wants to forget that shitshow ever happened.
     
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  8. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Funny thing is I remember the episode but not what are you talking about.

    EDIT: Remembered, you are talking about defensor blowing up Bruticus right?
     
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  9. Dropkick

    Dropkick Worse aim than Misfire.

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    I think that's what he's talking about.
    Anyways, Most Autobots and Decepticons are impervious to Human weapons (HMGs, Pistols, etc.) But their armor is breached by Explosives (RPGs, Laser weapons, etc.)
    And let's not forget the Humans shooting Blackout in the Crotch with a grenade launcher.
     
  10. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't actually a regular grenade though, that was supposedly a 'sabot round'.

    People always talk about how weak movie TFs are but if we go by the first movie, even Scorponok can tank tank busting missiles and he's not even a heavy hitter.
     
  11. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    This is the movieverse though you are talking about. In the movies the Tfs are inherently weaker to any form of weaponry because their transformations are not solid and lot of their internals are exposed. Even Sabot shells can penetrate them easily.
     
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  12. Dropkick

    Dropkick Worse aim than Misfire.

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    Yeah. G1 the TFs are a lot more durable.
     
  13. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Hammer of the Gunplas

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    Yep. For a toy commercial, showing the combiners not being able to take a single shot certainly isn't a wise business maneuver! :lol 

    Personally, I thought the whole 'they're normally invincible EXCEPT if you use freeze guns or sabot rounds' weakness was creative, since it could give the humans an edge but at the same time it wasn't as ridiculous as AoE where even basic bullets were enough to seriously harm cybertronians.
     
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  14. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly, in the first movie at least, sabots were portrayed as the only thing capable of damaging TFs. To give you a perspective, before they found out TFs' weakness to sabots, Scorponok, a low level TF, was tanking maverick missiles and very large caliber bullets from the planes. I doubt it's about their designs. You could say that things such as cables are vulnerable but then again those can also take a lot of punishment. In TLK, Optimus survived a seeningly uncontrolled re-entry to Cybertron's surface, I'd say cables had contact with heat and yet they seemed to survive intact. Other than that, stuff such as their internal mechanisms are also very durable since they can survive a lot of punishment all the time, it's the same metal on the inside anyway.
     
  15. Triceradon

    Triceradon Well-Known Member

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    I’ve always figured that the more armored/durable the vehicle mode, the more durable the robot. A Transformer that turns into a bog-standard sedan would sustain serious damage, if not be outright killed, by a 120mm shell taken to the chest. On the other hand, a tank transformer would be able to weather it more easily.

    How I've always headcanoned Transformer vulnerability to human weaponry as such.

    Small arms: At lower calibers, they might not even notice it. Higher calibers might be annoying, but not damaging. Armor piercing ammunition would cause light damage.

    Higher caliber machine guns (mounted guns, etc): painful, but not necessarily damaging, akin to a human getting hit with pebbles or a BB gun. Could cause damage in sensitive areas (face, joints, gaps in armor, etc). Armor piercing ammunition would cause moderate to severe damage, depending on the caliber.

    Miniguns/AA: Sustained fire will severely damage and eventually kill most Transformers.

    Explosives (grenades, etc): Heavy damage if striking vulnerable spots, otherwise serves mostly to leave a messy dent in their armor.

    Missiles/tank/artillery shots: Severe damage, lethal if not treated, to most Transformers; akin to a human getting hit with a shotgun slug or a rifle round respectively.
     
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  16. NaCl

    NaCl Noobie who likes boobies

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    I like to imagine it takes at least some high-caliber ballistic fire aimed at a concentrated area to do some damage, like a HEAT shell or maybe an Anti-Tank rifle. Small arms fire of course isn't going to do anything, it's like shooting a tank with a pistol.
     
  17. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Highly unlikely, but if that small calibre bullet goes in just the right place, it can still do some damage to sensitive components (eyes, lubricating hoses and control cables at joints, delicate equipment, external explosives or flammables, etc.). Weapons specifically designed to punch through thick metallic plating are certainly a lot more reliable, however.

    I've never subscribed to the "they're from space and so far beyond us we can't even touch them" school of thought either. As a human analogy (a poor one, granted), if a modern military unit travelled back in time to the stone age, they could lay waste to the people there through superior firepower and mobility, they could outthink their opponents with tactics thousands of years beyond theirs, and their modern armor would afford some pretty decent protection. That being said, if they were swarmed or caught off guard or even just unlucky, a sharpened stick could still get to a throat, a stone axe could still crush a face, an overwhelming force of numbers could still overpower and choke out someone's life. Superior technology does not grant invincibility (hell, I think every OTHER sci-fi story about aliens bringing a war to earth has been very willing to drive that point home).

    And even if the cybertronians WERE built of materials or technology we can't even dream of, humanity's weapons are, frankly, not to be underestimated. We can level entire buildings, punch through inches of steel or composite armor, melt through plating, etc. etc. We'd be completely outclassed by the cybertronians, and there would be a number of them who would be EXTREMELY difficult for a symmetrical human opposition to overcome (people with energy shielding, or specialized armor, who can move too fast to effectively target or who can strike without being struck back, etc)., but that isn't to say human weapons wouldn't be effective in the right setting. We have plenty of weapons specifically designed to harm large, heavy, metallic mechanical objects, and even much more advanced than our own technology, I find it hard to believe that cybertronians would see no ill-effects from that kind of weaponry. If we go by tech specs, some cybertronians use weapons that are basically the same as these, anyway.

    And then, of course, there's the human capacity for reverse engineering, and learning from our opponents. Even if we started out unable to harm the cybertronians, we might not stay that way.
     
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  18. A Wild MISSINGNO

    A Wild MISSINGNO Member

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    I think it just depends on the cartoon/comic/movie, and the character. The amount transformers are hurt by human weapons sometimes even seems to change from episode to episode.
     
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  19. Omegashark18

    Omegashark18 Combaticon turned Autobot

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    I rather like this list, and it works too.

    I just can't argue with this reasoning. And granted this something I feel people tend to forget, Transformers are very tough, but not invincible.

    Prime example, the IDW comics, which is now filled with people who can take down Transformers, and everyone's complaining. But think about it, the Transformers have been interacting with Earth for some time now, so it's extremely likely that Humanity has figured out how take them down, be it reverse engineering or some other alien source.
     
  20. Scowly Prowl

    Scowly Prowl Still calculating variables...

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    Well, simply put, propel an amount of mass fast enough, and it'll punch through just about anything. Humans currently have plenty of non-explosive fast moving projectiles that can ruin objects with commendable effectiveness. Put some HEAT rounds on those projectiles and the results are even more commendable.
     

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