Transformers vs Bullets

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by TFFan01, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Lighter of Darkest Hours

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    No, they weren't all concocted long ago. There were no machines to re-purpose long ago, Megatron came to Earth seeking the allspark. He never actually said what his plan was, that was the Autobots concluding what he could do with it. The plot of RoTF was attempted after the events of 07. The plot of DoTM obviously had to be scrapped when Sentinel disappeared, and was attempted again after Soundwave discovered the Ark on the Moon. Your talking about plans changing because of events forced them to. As well, there is no reason why the Decepticons can't harvest the Sun after they have already conquered it.
     
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  2. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    That's one possibility and not a stretch a leader should have a back up plan or two incase things don't work. However the biggest issue here is a refusal to actually think and piece elements together I'm not directing this at you. Dark reveals Sentinel and that Megatron uses prime to revive him with the matrix hm, what was he after in revenge the matrix. Could it be that maybe he wanted the matrix for more than just the sun harvester that he always planned used it to revive Sentinel. Perhaps the plan was use the harvester and the space bridge to restore Cybertron by perhaps using the bridge to transport the energy harvested. Megatron has no reason to state this why would he the other options are gone why bring them up?

    This is a problem yes they're action movies but that doesn't mean people can just zone out and ignore everything. Revenge reveals why Megatron wanted the Allspark originally Sam is it's vessel and it's sending him symbols that lead to the matrix's location in fact it's really compelling him to find it, coincidence. If the Allspark is really driving Sam to find the matrix meaning it knows where it is then the matrix is very likely the reason the Allspark came to Earth in the first place and if it can find the matrix which is the info Megatron is trying to extract in the first place then it's pretty obvious finding the matrix is why Megatron wanted it. He even says he has failed to retrieve it for the fallen what's the Fallen's goal? The Allspark and the harvester plan are the same plan this is painfully obvious and actually makes sense of Megatron's intentions in the first movie since there was no technology when he arrived. Sentinel was either scrapped after he disappeared or Megatron weaved reviving him into his reasons for getting the matrix.

    They can all connect pretty easily too or things just didn't go according to plan and he kept improvising and adapting to the current situation which is actually pretty realistic a lot of strategy and tactics hinge on ones ability to improvise and adapt to the unexpected.
     
  3. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Lighter of Darkest Hours

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    Yes, that is exactly what is going on.
     
  4. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Things really don't feel that well connected when you are having to connect them after the fact to work for the current movie.

    It's kind of like if Uwe Boll was making a movie about Adolph Hitler's brain in a robot body and said well Hitler lost the war on purpose so that he could kill his double and Hitler had his brain persevered until secret Nazi scientist could build a robot in 2017 to put the brain in.

    Of course this change things after the fact isn't really a problem solely confined to the Transformers films as the CW has to keep making up things to why Oliver wasn't the first superhero or why there are powers outside of those made by the particle accelerator. Even the Marvel Universe has moments where things don't really fit as well and as easily as they would want to think with a thought out fictional universe.
     
  5. JazzIsBeast

    JazzIsBeast Well-Known Member

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    The fact that you can only see it in low resolution tells me that it's not really there.

    But as for the topic, nothing lower than sabot rounds/armor piercing, high temperature rounds should have ANY effect on them. I don't want the transformers to be completely invulnerable to bullets, but at the same time their should be no reason why M4 bullets should be doing any damage.

    It should be like the first film, where they're resorting to air strikes to take them down.
     
  6. JazzIsBeast

    JazzIsBeast Well-Known Member

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    ^When I said sabot rounds, I was talking about tank weaponry, NOT sabot firearm rounds.

    Also, even sabot rounds should only affect protoforms, not TFs with armor.
     
  7. JazzIsBeast

    JazzIsBeast Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand the complaints about OP being OP. He's a direct descendant of a prime, a group of beings who could fly unguided, teleport, had telekinesis, and who knows what else (IIRC, I think they could also shoot energy beams). Sure, as a descendant, and not an original prime himself, Optimus won't have all those abilities, but nonetheless he should be quite more powerful than your average cybertronian, which he rightfully so is in the movie.

    In fact, except for Megatron (and other HIGHLY skilled or ultrapowerful cybertronians such as Lockdown or grimlock [who still was no match for OP]) only primes, such as Sentinel and the Fallen, should be a match for him.
     
  8. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Movie Optimus is a very good example of how you do a very powerful hero yet not make him overpowered. Optimus has plenty of awesome moments plenty moments when he's a one man army and yet in no way is he invincible. Optimus loses and almost dies in every film, every film he suffers a defeat.

    The first Megatron overpowers him and leaves him crawling on the floor. The second after a truly awesome second wind Megatron shrugs off his blows and kills him. In the third film despite giving it his all sentinel still bested him. In the fourth movie he almost dies in the new Mexico ambush and is also matched by Galvatron before being shot through the back by Lockdown who later equaled him and almost killed him.

    Optimus I don't find overpowered at all he clearly can be beaten and not just by primes if someone is skilled and powerful they can fight him, Grimlock lost because he was angry and reckless all raw power but no strategy or skill that's how optimus was able to beat him. The only time I would say optimus was overpowered was The Fallen fight he really did seem invincible there but every other time he's just been a very skilled and powerful warrior difficult to beat but by no means invincible.
     
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  9. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it seems you're right, I watched the scene again in 1440p (someone recently uploaded it to youtube). The "bullet holes" could actually be mere detailings. The fact that bullets didn't even crack his windows when transforming in an earlier scene also seems to prove this.
     
  10. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Really powerful heroes are hard to keep interesting because it just becomes a given they will completely and totally annihilate everything that stands against them. It's kind of like how the creative team behind Superman the Animated series talks about it being a tough show to make because Superman is such a powerful character he could easily get boring. Doesn't really help the Hollywood obsession with the good guys must always win throws another layer of difficulty onto making some tension of potentially losing that you need to keep the good guys exciting.

    Not that it's impossible to keep hyper powerful interesting because One Punch Man manages to keep things interesting even though one punch and fight is over. But as the power level of the hero creeps up if the power level of the villains can't keep pace then it starts to get rather boring and predictable like the later Rambo movies did.

    Personally I liked the idea of Prime and Megatron being dead even in the first Transformers movie and on Transformers Prime, but some people complained that Prime wasn't powerful enough and sadly that's the people the production team listened to.
     
  11. JazzIsBeast

    JazzIsBeast Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, the first movie's battle is not a good indication of OP's fighting skills. For one, it was in relatively close quarters around humans where OP had to watch out for surrounding humans; moreover, Megatron could use his size and (supposedly) strength to his advantage. However, we see what happens when OP can cut loose in some space and doesn't have to worry about humans.

    In the second film Megatron was doing anything BUT shrugging off his blows. He, along with his second in command and another top decepticons, were all getting their ass handed to them, and it was only after Optimus was distracted could Megatron get an opening.
     
  12. Dotmshockwave

    Dotmshockwave Decepticon Assassin

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    The holding backargument has become mute for the first films fight between Optimus and Megatron. Multiple shots display during their final battle no humans outside of Sam are near their surroundings (who was also present during the forest fight so the point of Optimus being worried about sam is also mute) and are all fleeing in the opposite direction. Megatron simply bests Prime in everything. One could say Prime was holding back from the standpoint that he wasn't fully committed to fighting Megatron as it seems by what he says after Megatron falls "You left me no choice brother". However the idea that Prime would hold back for that reason is ALSO nonsense considering if Megatron won Prime would be sure as dead and humanity would die, and if he started to lose he was literally going to commit suicide with the cube which would STILL leave Megatron alive rampaging about for the humans to deal with (which we learn would have caused earth's destruction without the cube anyway). The point is, the entire Optimus "holding back" argument is complete rubbish, and should be. Megatron is simply better in TF1 then Optimus, and there is no way around it.
     
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  13. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Basically this Megatron was more powerful but that wasn't the only reason Megatron was faster. This is the big difference Megatron is faster in the first than in Revenge Optimus couldn't counter him in time, that was what made the difference. If one looks at Revenge Megatron doesn't seem less powerful he can still blast Prime back across a forest. He can grab him and throw over his shoulder through a tree. He can throw a kick and smash his face plate. Megatron is every bit as strong and powerful as the first movie but his reaction time is slower his attacks are slower allowing optimus more time to attack. Watch the forest fight Optimus is mauling Megatron he's not really giving him a chance to attack and during his second wind deliberately uses the other 2 to disorient and confuse him. Megatron was slower that's what gave optimus the edge, temporarily anyway didn't make much of a difference.

    Which brings me to the forest fight and a massive factor people are overlooking. They're watching optimus maul Megatron seeing him beat him all over the place but are ignoring a very important detail, none of it is damaging him at all. Megatron tanks whatever optimus throws at him he knocks him down and he just gets back up looking no worse for wear. Nothing optimus does in the forest fight damages Megatron at all, at no point does it even remotely look like he's getting tired or weak; optimus on the other hand is a bloody mess, he has burn marks all over him his paint is being torn off his face plate is shattered his chest windows are cracked and broken, he has dents and bits of broken metal coming off of him. After killing Grinder he has to use a tree as support to keep himself standing and Megatron perfectly fine with minimum injuries moving as capable as he did when the fight started.

    Optimus was exhausted beaten and bloody while Megatron was mostly undamaged. Optimus couldn't damage him he could beat him around he could slow him down but he couldn't damage him, Megatron surprising him didn't matter he was dead either way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2017
  14. JazzIsBeast

    JazzIsBeast Well-Known Member

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    Even if we say that Optimus was going all out, at BEST for Megatron, he had the slight edge, despite it being close quarters which is perfect for Megatron. The fight goes:
    • Megatron flies OP through a building
    • OP shoots Megatron; Megs shrugs it off, and delivers a shot that blast OP quite a distance back.
    • Megs tosses Prime around a bit, and proceeds to kick him.
    And that's it.

    IN FACT, come to think of it, we didn't even see any of the fight, and that's assuming anything happened for the short period that we panned away (which the events could have been taking place simultaneously. It's a common movie practice to show simultaneous events in succession). At best you can say Megatron overpowered, him (which no one argues that he isn't physically stronger than Prime), but in no way did he actually beat him up; shoot, you could barely even call that a fight. Moreover, OP looked hesitant to fight him in general, and was definitely not willing to kill Megatron (as he wanted to foolishly sacrifice himself), which is exemplified by the fact he didn't even take out his plasma swords, even WHEN he had an opening.

    However, when we actually get to not only see a full fight between the two, but one in which Prime has room to maneuver and is willing to kill, Prime handles him easily, despite being outnumbered.

    At best you could make the argument that Megs was physically stronger, which no one argues. But there's nothing that indicates that he was more skilled or would have beaten OP in a more formal situation (such as the forest battle) in which OP didn't hold back AND wanted to kill.
     
  15. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Lighter of Darkest Hours

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    We see maybe 3 seconds of fighting slightly out of focus. It's while the humans are laser target designating Blackout, Optimus is definitely holding his own. Next we see of him he is getting thrown around. That whole Optimus/Megatron conflict was poorly handled and disappointing to me. One of the reasons a dislike the first movie more and more as I see it. You could have Megtron finally get the best of Prime at the end, but don't focus entirely on the parts where he is getting his ass handed to him. They didn't even do that with with the Sentinel Prime fight.
     
  16. Megatronus the Fallen

    Megatronus the Fallen Your Friendly Neighborhood 'Con

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    Actually, it was made clear that the transformers DO have regenerative armor. When they were examining Scorponok's tail, it was made clear that it had regenerative armor.
    Every transformer can regenerate two some degree.
     
  17. TFFan01

    TFFan01 Well-Known Member

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    Are you telling this to Darker?

    Anyway, I think I was wrong when I said bullets left any mark on Blackout. Some even hit his windows and it didn't even crack.
     
  18. Megatronus the Fallen

    Megatronus the Fallen Your Friendly Neighborhood 'Con

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    I figured there were more people in this thread that agreed that transformers can't heal so I just posted without quick replying today anyone. But yes, I was replying to Darker.
     
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  19. Ironhide1234

    Ironhide1234 Rust Bucket

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    This is all very well said, but the one thing that I cannot fathom is the Decepticons interfering with Dylan Gould's father and the space race in Dark of the Moon.
    You say that Megatron landed on Earth before any man-made machines were around - which is true. This also means that he is a few years too early to know that the Ark crashed on the moon in the 60s?
     
  20. transformervic1

    transformervic1 HI!

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    I have a theory that Soundwave, being the one to track the Arc, probably arrived near Earth some time after Megatron went into frozen stasis. Being Megatron's intelligence officer, he was more than likely in on the whole sentinel plan and, being that his master wasn't around, started to set some things in motion and could've also signaled the decepticons to go to the moon for stand-by.
     

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