Transformers TGC from Wizards of the Coast

Discussion in 'Transformers Trading Card Game (TCG) Discussion' started by Tony_Bacala, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. rasolyo

    rasolyo Well-Known Member

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    By mimicking MTG's mechanics, this card game will likely cannibalize sales from the former. WOTC isn't going to let that happen. If anything, they'd want simpler mechanics for this game in order to attract the younger crowd (not that that's necessarily a bad thing), making it more accessible from a gameplay standpoint.

    In any case, you already see differences from Magic in that the character cards have defense and heart values, implying that damage suffered can be permanent. Maybe a win condition would be to eliminate all of your opponent's characters.

    Personally, I hope this succeeds; but because this is also a CCG, in order to enjoy any sort of longevity it will have to develop a healthy secondary market much like Magic (rarity and demand for limited quantities of cards determining the card price).
     
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  2. shamanking282

    shamanking282 Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea why anyone would want a simple reskin of MTG. Let the talented game designers at WotC actually, y'know, design something unique.
     
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  3. Autobot Daniel

    Autobot Daniel The Meme-Inator

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    Right? That’s what I’m wondering. What’s the point of reskining it? If it’s a new game, make it a new game! If you want to play MTG, then play MTG.
     
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  4. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I stink at this type of game, but I do like the cards that come with the toys so there is a strong temptation to collect these cards even if the chances of ever winning a match are about zero.

    But like other people I'm what the heck no Decepticon starter set? A set where I could be sure of a character like Soundwave would be an oh yea got to get that. Not sure if I like this idea of having to hope you find your favorite Decepticon in a booster pack.
     
  5. chuckcjc

    chuckcjc Wheeljack Engineer Corp.

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    It wouldn't cannibalize sales from MTG. Just make the Transformer cards legal in Commander and EDH, and wham instant success. People already love playing Grimlock in EDH even with his goofy "Transform a toy to Transform Grimlock" mechanic. If you have played MTG for any extended period of time you will understand that the basic mechanics allow for SO MUCH Flexibility that you can have one set play completely differently from another set. In essence Transformers could be another new tribe of artifact creatures in MTG, and that would be SO cool.

    WOTC has not had a strong track record of testing their recent sets very well. There have been a lot of bannings of cards that the were too strong shortly after release because WOTC didn't test the interactions. So I am worried that this new Transformers game will be rushed as well, not properly tested, and there will quickly be a broken dominant archtype that will sink the game shortly after release.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  6. Fade2BlackZarak

    Fade2BlackZarak Well-Known Member

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    Speaking as someone who loves MTG and card games in general, I'll definitely keep an eye on this. Has potential though seems weird that the 2 player Starter Set has Autobot vs Autobot. Either way, should be cool.

    Biggest fear is mismanagement. WOTC haven't exactly been handling Magic well in recent years, with Standard bannings left and right and cards become absurdly expensive.
     
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  7. chuckcjc

    chuckcjc Wheeljack Engineer Corp.

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    There has to be some value in the game. People were walking away because the "Expedition" type lottery cards were driving the price of the rest of the set so low that stores couldn't make any money selling singles, and boosters were trending towards becoming worthless. With those removed from the game, prices of good mythics and rares are climbed, and Brick and Mortar stores can make profit selling singles again. You may think some cards are too expensive in Standard, but they need to have value in the game to keep the game going. Without Brick and Mortar stores, the paper version of Magic dies.
     
  8. Fade2BlackZarak

    Fade2BlackZarak Well-Known Member

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    It's not the price of standard, it's the price of everything else that is the problem. Wizards refuse to reprint things sensibly, and it invites price spikes that constantly increase the barrier to entry. Modern is more inaccessible than it's ever been in terms of price, but it's the most popular format by a gap.

    And that's simply not true regarding the expeditions. They dropped the price of the BfZ cards because that set was steaming garbage. Kaladesh cards have sold well the whole way through, as have the playables from Amonkhet block.
     
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  9. Zappit

    Zappit Well-Known Member

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    Wizards of the Coast likes to do oversized cards for special releases - such as the original Commander Precons or Planescape. They might have regular-sized versions of those cards available, too.

    I kind of think the game sounds fairly interesting, almost like Marvel Overpower, just less bland.
     
  10. Fade2BlackZarak

    Fade2BlackZarak Well-Known Member

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    It reminds me a bit of the Panini/Score Dragon Ball Z game. You have a "main personality" (or Transformers character, in this case), and then you have a variety of attacks, blocks, manoeuvres and alike to simulate "combat".
     
  11. TCJJ

    TCJJ 111% Tank Engine

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    Wasn't going to chime in again but decided to because, despite my harsh criticisms so far, I'm still very interested in seeing this game turn out well and therefore discussing it.

    Long-ass post ahead:

    Something I wanted to clarify from my previous post was about the SDCC exclusives. My point is not that I hate exclusives (even though I do), but that for a game like this, it needs to have good distribution from day one. That means you need to start with a test market.
    WOTC has been using New Zealand as a test market for the Magic Arena booster pack codes (packed in with our Dominaria boosters), which has been fairly successful (aside from the actual rewards from the codes, but I've seen speculation that they've purposely made the rewards bad so that the market isn't skewed by beta players before the final launch, which makes sense).

    My point is not that I want this to be an exclusive in NZ for a bit so I can get first dibs on it - I honestly don't care about this game at this point in time, so I don't have such a desire, even if it would be kinda fun - but that they need to use some place as a test market, whether it's a small country or a single US state, or something like that.

    Releasing the cards as SDCC exclusives first completely skews that. First of all, SDCC exclusives almost always sell out quickly. A new Transformers TCG? Those will be gone ASAP and will be scalped almost immediately. Second, a good number of people who are actually buying these at SDCC will be buying them because they like Transformers and/or they want to profit on these exclusives.
    If you could go to your local game store and buy them, in whatever test market WOTC would set up (had they done that), then you'd be interested because they're Transformers and/or because they're a new game to play. You would be delivering this product to the people who are more likely to actually invest in and play the game long-term - the people who you are going to be selling the bulk of your new product to, and the people who are going to be the lifeblood of your game.
    I realise this is a generalisation, but my point is that SDCC exclusives to start will skew their numbers as to the interest of this game (so hopefully they don't take said data too seriously), and won't generate as much interest as it otherwise could.
    Now, if they wanted these to be at SDCC first, I'd suggest making them timed exclusives at SDCC. Put them out at SDCC, then put them into a test market a week later, then a month or two later, do your global launch.

    The one positive along this line I will say is that WOTC at least has okay distribution. God forbid this is like the launch of Force of Will, a game I was trying to get invested in but couldn't even buy the damned cards for months on end, and then they basically made the entire first batch of cards null and void once they completely overhauled the game with stronger cards going forward. I know people like it now and it's thriving at this point but... what an absolute clusterfuck that was. And they introduced Magic's Standard rotation BS only about a year and half into the start of the game, without any other formats like Modern to compensate for that.
    So yeah, I just hope they don't get off to a rocky start because that can hurt a game. Force was impossible to buy for months and people got quite frustrated.

    I wanted to go back to your post because I'm genuinely curious about something, which has been talked about by others - I'd like to know if your problem is that the game isn't just a Magic clone, or if you just think the game could be constructed better, more akin to Magic.

    I'd definitely say the latter, personally. One thing I like about most TCGs out there is that they all feel familiar yet are different enough to be unique. Sure, some play better than others, and none are more tried-and-true than Magic, but they're all pretty good in their own right (even if YuGiOh and Pokemon have kinda... dipped in quality in recent years), so I don't think it needs to be an outright clone.

    I'm more concerned about this game just being good, and concerned as to whether modern WOTC can even make a good game from scratch. Sometimes they make some amazing Magic stuff (okay, Dominaria was outsourced, so maybe that's not a good sign), but other times, they make some of the most baffling decisions ever (the most recent I can think of is the new Global Series pack which is basically worthless outside of nice new art from Chinese artists).
    Based on what we've seen so far though, I concede that I do not think this game looks very good. @AutobotAvalanche summed up perfectly how I currently feel about this new TF TCG: "these cards look simultaneously overcomplicated and dumbed down". As someone who has played TCGs almost all my life (even if I've never been particularly good at them), it really does feel that way.
    Yeah, I'm curious as to what Destro is specifically talking about, but if it's like MTG Finance, then no, fuck those people.
    This is what I've been saying a lot, both here and elsewhere, and it worries me a bit, but seeing the new reveals, I have a feeling that they're going to treat the character cards like Commander cards in Magic, meaning they won't need sleeves (except for the part where they're all foiled...), and them being DFCs (double-faced cards, before someone asks) won't then matter.
    It's all down to practise and experience. Good Magic players have been playing for years and play multiple times a week. You don't have to be quite that committed to get good at the game, but it's just practise and experience, like anything else. That is to say, if you decide you want to play this game, just keep playing it and enjoying it and you'll eventually become a better player.
    Heck, I suck at Magic but I improve every time I play a game, even if just a little. I'm already winning more games than I was when I was started (and I still don't win a lot, but the most important thing i
    Agreed, but they probably didn't want to do more than Grimlock in Magic if only for lore reasons. If they managed to work in a limited amount of Transformers into Magic and the MTG lore, I'd totally be down for that.
    There are at least a few cards in M19 I'm worried about being completely broken though. There's at least one common that comes to mind which could be potentially broken, based on what I saw at pre-release (that, or I'm just a really bad player. Probably both).
    They still do them for the Commander pre-cons and have done for all of them, but they only do one per pack instead of three per pack now. All of them are available as regular-sized cards (and included with the Commander pre-cons). Considering they've made it clear that the character cards will be the oversized ones and that the ability cards will be regular-sized, I doubt the character cards will be available in a regular size.
    This is true. They're too concerned with MTG Finance goons (even though they say they aren't) that they make it impossible to get some of these cards. They just reprinted Crucible of Worlds in M19 but increased its rarity and it's already selling for $20-$30. Granted, M19 doesn't get fully released until tomorrow, but still.
     
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  12. Cal

    Cal Well-Known Member

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    More expensive than collecting Transformers? o_O 
     
  13. Fade2BlackZarak

    Fade2BlackZarak Well-Known Member

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    Crucible of Worlds and Scapeshift at Mythic, despite neither being good in draft or Standard. Snapcaster Mage upshifted to Mythic in MM17. Jace unbanned, with none of the supporting blue/white cards reprinted, so he spikes (despite a reprint), and the cards that facilitate him also go up. Same thing for Bloodbraid Elf. Sure would be nice to play Jund, but oops, Liliana of the Veil is $100USD. Aether Vial upshifted, for no reason. Same with Chalice of the Void. They've been horrible in controlling the prices of the game in the last five years. I've said before, but if you started playing after Innistrad block went out of production, you're basically screwed. Can't afford Legacy. Can't afford Modern. Better stick to the most ban-heavy standard. I love MTG, but it has been horribly managed.

    That said, I think the Transformers game has a good shot, and clearly some elements of Magic will bleed into it (tapping and untapping). You definitely make an excellent point about the SDCC stuff, though. Seems a very odd choice for release, as you said. All the worse if they don't reprint the exclusive cards in a later set. I suspect that Hasbro will be very hands-on with this game and try to make sure there aren't any colossal screw ups ala past Masters sets.
     
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  14. Fade2BlackZarak

    Fade2BlackZarak Well-Known Member

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    Definitely. Beast Wars MP Megatron is the equivalent of four high-end Modern cards in MTG, or three boxes.

    You also don't have to worry about that Megatron, while saving for it, suddenly being bought out by a group of assholes just to increase the price further.
     
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  15. Cal

    Cal Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure you collect Transformers? :rolleyes: 
     
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  16. Fade2BlackZarak

    Fade2BlackZarak Well-Known Member

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    Touche'
     
  17. chuckcjc

    chuckcjc Wheeljack Engineer Corp.

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    Do you really play the game? You haven't noticed the constant stream of reprints from the "Masters" sets driving down prices? Tarmogoyf is finally affordable. The Expeditions and massive overprinting to chase the "lottery" cards is what drove the set down. Your understanding of Magic finance is very lacking.
     
  18. Fade2BlackZarak

    Fade2BlackZarak Well-Known Member

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    Tarmogoyf is "affordable" because it's been reprinted three times and Fatal Push kicked its ass out of the metagame for quite a while. It's poorly positioned in Modern at the moment, though likely to go up again in the wake of DRS' Legacy ban.

    EDIT: Hey, original comment was a bit more bitchy, and I apologise for that. Not sure if you'll get the original message, and if you do, I got caught up and am sorry. It was nothing too bad, just snide. I really love this forum and don't want to start get into silly fights.

    We disagree and I think it's best we leave it at that :) 
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  19. TCJJ

    TCJJ 111% Tank Engine

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    Haha, I wasn't going to list them all else my post would have been even longer, but yeah, those cards are insanely overpriced. I actually just got back into Magic with Dominaria and wanted Liliana. Welp.
    I'm still kind of flabbergasted that Crucible is a mythic reprint. It's insane.

    I just hope Hasbro having a hands-on approach, assuming you're correct (and I'd tend to say they'll do as you say), will be a good thing though. After seeing their POTP distribution... Ouch. One of Hasbro's problems is that they don't seem to really care about any markets outside the US and China, and tend to let other distributors handle it. Magic, however, is more or less the same price worldwide. I can buy a booster pack for the same price in NZ as I could if I were in the US. I can't do that with Transformers toys. Here's hoping Hasbro and WOTC keep this on the same level.

    Oh, and if my allusion to Commander earlier turns out for the better i.e. the game turns out to be an EDH-style game, I'd be totally into that. EDH is pretty much the only affordable format right now (if you can call it that), aside from Limited.
    To be fair, Masters sets haven't helped much, especially with garbage like Masters 25. The prices are still too high. Heck, who even plays Legacy or Vintage these days? You've got to be a millionaire to have a top-tier deck now.
     
  20. Fade2BlackZarak

    Fade2BlackZarak Well-Known Member

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    I live in rural Australia, you don't need to tell me twice :p 

    EDH-formers would be fantastic. I hadn't thought about that, but the notion of "Commander = Transformer" makes sense.
     

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