Transformers Population: Just how many are there?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Infosaur, Oct 4, 2007.

  1. Infosaur

    Infosaur Well-Known Member

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    And I'm not talking how many toys, charachters, collection counts and cannon charachters vs. repaints.

    I mean: What do you estimate the entire population of TF's in the universe is?

    For example, there are 8 BILLION humans (in the known universe)

    A LARGE city on earth is only single digit millions.

    Since they never seem to die (execpt for war casualties) and live for a very long time (and rarely reproduce) Biology would point to a realitively low number.

    I suspect that there are only a few million TF's on Cybertron at the height of the Golden Age.

    Perhaps the population of Tokyo?
     
  2. darksage78

    darksage78 Maximal

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    It's hard to say but in Beast Machines, Cybertropolis which was built over Iacon was said by Cheetor to have I think roughly 10 million Transformers. And that's just one city. Also in Maximal and Predacon time, a lot of Transformers are off world too with exploration, etc.
     
  3. Dropshot

    Dropshot Transform your destiny

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    There are only 6 billion people.

    And cheetor mentions in BM that cybertropolis holds 10 million transformers or so.

    I take the fact that Cybertron is saturn sized, so add to that the fact that TF use several leves on cybertron, and that has to give one big number with 13 zeros.
     
  4. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight TFW2005 Supporter

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    The transforming bastards keep disguising themselves as vehicles and animals avoiding the census.

    Honestly, I don't know, but I would say quite a bit, millions.
     
  5. kurochan_24

    kurochan_24 Well-Known Member

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    :lolol :lolol :lolol :lolol 
     
  6. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Probably millions rather than billions - they've been at war for centuries, spanning a whole race, with almost everyone taking sides. That's going to put a huge strain on the numbers of TFs out there, a major war tends to have a negative impact on population. Add in the general chronic energy shortage shown in some series, and you've got another limiting factor.

    Plus, TF reproduction is somewhat more complicated that the typical organic lifeform. Where as most organic life has a fairly steady build in population, the whole "2.4 Children" thing, new TFs seem to be relatively rare.

    So in all honesty, we're only dealing with a population of millions, maybe even hundreds of thousands. No TF series bar the Movie has touched on this, but in my mind, the constant civil war has probably set the TFs on a path to extinction. I think they're a dying race.

    Why else do we need to reboot continuities now and then?
     
  7. Dropshot

    Dropshot Transform your destiny

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    That was a great statement Sol, the fact that TF could at some point be considered a dying race is intriguing. But by the time of the beast machines, they may have experienced a boom in the populatioon growth. And I just can'tconcive a Saturn sized planet which is thousands of times bigger than earth, have less population than earth itself.
     
  8. DilaZirK

    DilaZirK Is bullheaded.

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    My thoughts as well.
     
  9. Blue Meanie

    Blue Meanie Hello from the Gutter

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    I always thought it was millions at max, and Cybertron is way smaller than earth from what I have always understood. You can see the curvature of the planet in all the cartoons. Not to mention the size the towers that are coming off the sides, if it was saturn sized you could fit an earth or two in the towers and Iacon. In beast wars the said a city held millions, but the Beastwars robots are much smaller. Nice solution to overpopulation.
     
  10. SmokescreenSWE

    SmokescreenSWE Well-Known Member

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    Most of the time when we see Cybertron, we see loads and loads of wastelands and ruined cities. I'd say there aren't that many.

    At the end of the Marvel comic, there were only a couple of thousand, if that. They all fit in a couple of spaceships. Of course, at that point there had been the whole incident with Unicron and all...
     
  11. Rampage01

    Rampage01 knockoff of a knockoff

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    In the case of Beast Machines, they seem to follow the G1 cartoon more than anything else, and judging by the Ultimate Doom episodes, Cybertron is a bit small than Earth's moon. The fact that practically the entire planet is just layer upon layer of city, would certainly help to house more bots, though most of the under layers seem to be abandoned in both G1 and the Beast era. Of course, a Beast Machines following the comics would indeed have a much larger Cybertron to work with, though I suppose there's still the question of how often new bots are brought online.
     
  12. Harbinger

    Harbinger ecnayonnA

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    well i always got the impression that birth rates for new bots and cons was exceedingly slow (only TF race that seems to have a high population was the G2 forces that had continued to reproduce the old fashion way). that is probably due to a exceedly long lifespan. so when you have a massivly long civil war as the transformers have had they might have been in the billions beforehand, but by about the time the story gets to us they are what seems to be about the hunderds of thousands point in number if lucky.
     
  13. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I'm with the "in the billions" group also. I actually posted a thread about this a while back, but it's lost to the ages. My reasoning is as follows:

    1) Cybertron is Saturn-sized. I know that's comic-continuity, and it certainly appeared smaller in the cartoon (Ultimate Doom), but I'm going with Saturn-sized 'cause I don't feel like the war could have lasted as long as it did on a planet Earth-sized or smaller.

    So that's 4.27×1010 km^2, or about 84 Earths. That's HUGE, especially considering we don't even use 2/3 of our SA. Even given TF's larger size, that's easily room for tens of billions.

    2) Cybertron has levels, at least is some areas, continuing to increase an already expansive SA.

    3) Cybertron has metropolises, which would serve as dense areas of population.

    4) The birth rate is low, true, but I don't think many TFs have died. They're just so damn hard to kill, and the 'Cons seem to have been the minority to begin with, that I don't think even the opening days of the war would have resulted in substantial casualties. Massive property damage, absolutely, but not much death. I have another whole line of reasoning for that, but it's more about how I think Transformers would wage war than the population, so it's not pertinent here.

    5) Even given a low casualty rate, the war has lasted millions of years. I just don't feel like that's possible if we started with only millions of Transformers. Attrition would have resulted in one side or the other winning the war by default by now with so few initial combatants.

    6) I also feel like any war will have civilians, who will outnumber the actual combatants. I think Cybertron is probably full of non-aligned (or more likely, Autobots who choose not to actually fight) Transformers, hiding out and just surviving.

    Anyways, that's my opinion.
     
  14. Blue Meanie

    Blue Meanie Hello from the Gutter

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    The idea of Cybertron being Saturn Sized is crazy. Its gravity would kill a human, and make the TF's weigh so many thousands of tons. Traveling from one side of the globe to the other would be a long trip. The levels to the center would be so Vast it would be crazy. Unicron would be enormous. The comic continuity having it Saturn sized I always believed was one of the most ridiculous ideas ever.
     
  15. Dropshot

    Dropshot Transform your destiny

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    I share your point, it's just stupid to think that a planet on which the average habitant is over 20 feet tall can be smaller than earth's moon.

    And then, we go I share your point that TF are so hard to kill, that a single combatant could've fighted in hundreds or even thousands of battles.
     
  16. Blue Meanie

    Blue Meanie Hello from the Gutter

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    There were Dinosaurs far larger by the millions, fitting on our 1/3 land planet.
     
  17. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I definitely agree that some flubbing is necessary to make it work.

    I accepted the comic continuity first, then asked myself how that would be possible. For me, the answer was that Cybertron has an extremely low density--maybe a latticework-like internal structure that would reduce its gravity. It might not get it down to Earth-normal, but with at least some decrease, Transformers would be able to easily deal with even markedly increased gravity.

    Alternatively, I'm kinda okay with lazy deus exes--saying gravity's lower 'cause Primus makes it so, or because Cybertron has "gravitonic nullfiers" or whatever.

    The "long trip" problem is totally true. But lots of of SF-universes deal with war on galactic-scales, I don't think this is that much of a stretch, especially since some vehicle modes are obscenely fast. But even so, the size is one thing I use to explain the duration of the war.

    Also, the alternative--the Moon-sized Cybertron--has its own gravity issues. How would the TFs be able to deal w/ Earth-normal after adapting to much lower gravity?

    Not trying to be argumentative or anything--I mean, it's just Transformers and every fan is entitled to his or her position. This is just the one I like.
     
  18. Mixmaster

    Mixmaster logh ghot SIS yoD TFW2005 Supporter

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    But that size is contradicted in issue 75 (On The Edge Of Extinction) where you can compare the size of regular transformers with Unicron, and you can compare Unicron with Cybertron.

    The trouble is that we're trying to use inconsistant continuities to estimate the population size.

    In the Marvel comic, which is the canon I'm most familiar with, in issue 1 Cybertron is Saturn size and a population of many billions is implied.

    Yet in issue 75 Cybertron is a lot smaller, so population in the billions seems implausible.

    Personally I would say generally Cybertron is a dwarf planet, that would probably have a pre-war population of several million in G1. In the Marvel comic Unicron was a near mass extinction event possibly reducing the population to hundreds or less.
     
  19. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Yeah, that's basically the only real answer to this all. Everything past it just fan conjecture for personal takes of Transformers.
     
  20. Blue Meanie

    Blue Meanie Hello from the Gutter

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    No problem there's no arguing. Just a discussion to come up with the true logical answer. Despite what the continuity says, and it varies greatly, I just try to look at it logically. A living being as a planet, and made of all metal, would still be heavy enough to create a good amount of gravity compared to the moon since the moon has no iron core. In terms of scale saturn is just too big, now maybe Mars, or another slightly smaller than earth planet seems more possible to me. I couldn't see a reason for Primus to create a body for himself that would require that much maintenance, think of all the transformers he would have to create to not rust away or whatever. Billions would be insignificant number on that scale. If the transformers themselves built cybertron the idea of a race creating something that large would take billions of years and the sucking dry the resources of countless planets in itself. If cybertron is mobile, the turbines to move something that big, wow. I don't know, a moon or a small planet seems more likely. Wow, I watch too much science channel
     

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