People involved with movies, especially while that movie is still pending release, are the LEAST RELIABLE sources when it comes to spin, self-promotion and generally just being disingenuous about their enthusiasm and belief in the project.

It's Hollywood. It's all hype, all selling, all flogging, all plugging, all PR... all the time.

I'm going the judge the film when it comes out. I'm currently judging the film based on the information and images that have become available. But I am never going to take anything that any Hollywood person says seriously... if you put any stock in what writers, producers, directors and actors say about their upcoming films, then every movie made would be some sort of masterpiece.

After all, I'm sure they would -never- tell us just what they think we want to hear. What would they possibly have to gain from that??      

zmog

 

The problem with that theory is, the large and vocal internet group wants to hear that it's not G1. They are the ones screaming that this Bumblebee can't be the real Bumblebee because he looks different.

I see no reason to doubt the writers' sincerity. None of their statements have been outlandish or questionable. And no one can tell me with a straight face that the choices of Ironhide/Jazz/Bumblebee/Ratchet was simple random name picking. That is absurd.

 

Hey, I didn't say I agreed with the guy. I sure as hell wouldn't want the Transformers not to talk! I was just merely showing how someone could think that. It's the equivalent of the dinosaurs being revealed in Jurassic Park, only to have them start speaking English to the human actors. It's like if King Kong spoke English. It's like if Jaws or the alien in Alien spoke to their victims prior to killing them. It's going to be Transformers toughest sell, after getting over the hurdle that was the silly "toy" movie stigma (which I think the teaser trailer pretty well wiped away).

We fans take it for granted. But's it's another one of those things that's largely limited only to children's entertainment and animated films...

Thy've got to sell non-fans on the idea of giant alien robots from space, then sell them on the transforming concept, and lastly sell them on the whole sentient beings who speak English idea...

 

Btw, something the beginning of Armada did wonderfully was show the appearance a giant robot named Megatron who looks down at creatures so small he doesn't even bother to say anything. Having him keep his mouth closed for those few minutes made him seem particularly menacing. I'm not saying an entire film should have that, but it's a useful effect.

 

I see your point, C.B., and agree with it for the most part. But -- and I don't know if this is playing Devil's advocate to your Devil's advocate   -- I'd think that the various incarnations of Star Trek have probably had some effect on getting the general population to accept aliens speaking English. Aliens including the Borg -- a partially robotic race, BTW. I do think TFs are still a few leaps beyond most Star Trek aliens, suspension-of-disbelief-wise, though.

Meanwhile, I don't think anyone is denying that this movie has huge roots in G1. As has been pointed out, every other incarnation of TFs has, too. To say that it IS G1, though, pushes it a bit too far.

 

Because they look different and don't have an Ark?

 

As someone else pointed out, if this is G1, so is every other TF series since G1. There are just as many -- if not more -- similarities in those series. (With the possible exceptions of BW & BM, but those turned out to be continuations of the G1 universe.)

So, are you arguing that all TF series are G1?

 

Read carefully this time.

Step One: The writer's wrote the script, with the G1 characters in mind. That remains.

Step Two: The designers created new designs for the G1 characters, some based on the originals more than others.

Step Three: Bay says this film is not intended to be a G1 movie, but rather it's own continuity.


Note that Step Two and Three do nothing to negate Step One; no matter what Bay says or what the designers do, it doesn't change the fact that the writer's have written the characters as their G1 counterparts. As they say, the clothes do not make the man.

Except that the only people who watch Star Trek are Star Trek fans; that's why their film's budgets are capped at $60m, and sometimes they don't even make that much back. Star Trek can not be a basis for what general audiences will and will not buy in to, because general audiences don't watch Star Trek   That, and Star Trek is not an alien invasion type film. When you're introducing foreign concepts and elements into our present day Earth, it's a whole other ballgame. No one can critique what things are like in the future, in some distant galaxy, but when it comes to present day Earth, everyone in the audience is an expert critic. That's why the filmmaker's have been putting such a focus on believability. If the audience is going to relate to the humans discovering these robots in disguise...it has to feel like it could really happen. If they can feel that their car could be a Transformer, the filmmaker's have really nailed it.

It's not G1: The Movie, no. But it has more in common with G1 than any other Transformers incarnation. The character line-up is dominantly G1 characters, regardless of how they look, and the film is based around realistic, present-day alt modes. It's back to the roots of "Robots in Disguise", when the alt modes were used for more than just transportation, and they actually made good disguises.

 

the fact that we have those bizarre designs only proves that bay and ILM had a certain vision about alien giant robots (weheter we like it or not, that's a different discussion), and they translated that vision to the designs. and we also know that bay wants to stay the hell away from the cartoons as much as possible, but all we know from the writers is what they claim.

i've read the 2 first drafts of the script and i agree with what they're saying.

 

I just do not see the comparisons here. Of course no one is going to believe that dinosaurs in Jurassic Park start talking. That is not the premise of the show. Ditto King Kong.

It all depends on the fantasy you are trying to tell and sell.

Why would anyone get weirded out about robots talking? I mean, for Pete's sake, we already have robots that can talk to us in the real here and now (granted, not TF size/stature, but still ...).

Bottom line, can you REALLY see anyone getting up and walking out of the theatre on 07-04-2007 because those giant transforming robots can talK? Doubtful. Ditto for reviews of the movie.

And this is all I'm going to say on the subject. It's almost beyong belief that anyone in the movie industry is THAT stupid (then again, there were those Bat nipples).

 

I think you have to include the 5 Star Trek TV series, too. TNG, at least, was pretty widely viewed. And I did say I thought ST had had some effect. Like I said, I'm largely agreeing with you, here.

At the very least, CR/RiD and GF/Cybertron also used that factor heavily. (At least they said Cyb OP's truck mode was a good disguise.   )

 

The problem there is, unlike the film, the names were completely random. They didn't think of G1 Red Alert when they named him Red Alert, they thought that would be a good name for that toy. They certainly didn't think of G1 Smokescreen, Wheeljack(who wasn't even an Autobot), Scavenger(who wasn't even a Decepticon as it turned out), and probably tons of others I'm forgetting when they named them for Armada.

There is a huge distinction between the various series and the film. The distinction being...the characters.

 

Star Trek fans definitely won't have any trouble accepting talking transforming robots with feelings, it's all those people who don't get in to Star Trek that they have to worry about. This film has a budget 2.5 times greater than the last Star Trek flick, which means it has to appeal to 2.5 times more people than Star Trek does, and that's just to break even  

Really? Because they don't look like anything I've ever seen on Earth  

 

As has already been said, I'm not saying that the Autobots, Starscream, and Megatron are not based on their G1 counterparts. However, it would seem to me that, besides Beast Machines and possibly Beast Wars (which both take place in G1 continuity, mind you), this movie is easily the farthest thing from G1 in terms of any TF series. I have no doubt that there was serious thought behind the characters chosen. I imagine it went, in severely condensed form, something like this:

"Starscream, Megs, Prime, and Bumblebee are shoo-ins... we should probably use some well-known characters for the Autobots, since they're the good guys the audience will identify more with... let's add in Ratchet, Ironhide, and Jazz. What do we use for the other Decepticons? We've already ruled out Soundwave, maybe in the future... Are there any other really well-known Decepticons? I can't think of any... Well, we should probably have variety... How about a military helicopter, a construction vehicle, and a tank, those are good Decepticon forms... Ooo! And make a police car a Decepticon, that'll mix things up a little... Oh, and a bug, we've got to have a big bad mechanical beastie.... and maybe a little Decepticon used for spying, too. Yeah, put those guys in to beef up the ranks a little. What are their names? I dunno, just pick something that fits and doesn't sound lame. They'll probably be cannon fodder anyway."

Nice try, but that is WAY too general for what I'm talking about. That's obviously referring to the well-known characters. I'm talking about something like, "I figured we'd put in a few obscure G1 characters, like Barricade and Blackout. Yeah, they never appeared on TV, and we changed their alt modes to fit certain scenes in the movie more, but we read their toy profiles and their personalities in the movie will be just like they were in those bios, you'll see!"

I just think you guys have waaay too broad of a definition for G1. I think the IDW Infiltration/Escalation universe just fits into the G1 title. For me, if it doesn't have ALL the same characters from the G1 universe, with roughly the same personalities, and with exactly the same or very very similar designs, than it's not G1.

 

Maybe Optimus flew over you  

 

Classics?

 

Classics would fit my aforementioned critieria, so yeah. Unless you count the stuff that isn't deluxes or voyagers, but those are more throw-ins than anything else.

 

Just to be annoying,  

Transformers have one primary difference to all those examples you cited. That being that they are machines, going from that it is the work of a moment to "sell" the average movie goer on the idea that they must have vastly sophisticated computers that can analyse and reproduce the language they have encountered.
Much like replicators and transporters universal translators are the kind of sci-fi technology average people can believe in because they wish it would exist.

 

(I'm assuming you're talking about Cyb rather than RiD here.) I'm not debating whether fire trucks with big honkin' cannons and wings are something we'd see driving down the street.   But in the storyline, they were stated to be disguising themselves.

Who's to say they didn't?

Red & white rescue vehicle, kind of a dick  )) -> Red Alert
Sports car -> Wheeljack
Green & purple construction vehicle -> Scavenger
(I got nothin' on Smokescreen.)

Those are just as close as most of the things we've got going on with the movie.

And what about Blackout? He started out as Incinerator. As far as I'm aware, that name wasn't used in G1.

QFAA. (Quoted For Absolute Agreement.)

 

Then their story is crazy, because RID had flying robot sharks