Thought about Prime FE Death

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by zeroomegazx, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. zeroomegazx

    zeroomegazx I'm watching you...

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Posts:
    1,223
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +3
    I recently Grabbed FE Prime and Cliffjumper off of ebay after my BBTS orders were ... well... we all know what happened there. However I have some thoughts I'd like some feedback on as to why the line might have been canceled.

    I attended NYCCC and saw FE Prime, Cliffjumper, WHEELJACK, and others on display. While I was there I picked up the convention 2 pack of Bee and Arcee. After the FE Line was canceled and the debacle with Hasbro, I had been reading forums and gathering some information on the issue. However one thing has stuck out now that I have the FE figures in hand:

    Is it possible FE was canceled due to some *tainted* focus group that claims they wanted gimmicks instead of show accurate toys? Here are some examples that I'm sure many of you are already aware of

    -FE Cliffjumper is extremely show accurate, however his RiD counterpart is not. The RiD packaging SHOWS a show accurate cliffjumper ON THE FRONT of the package with his arm cannon out pointing at you. However the figure has no such weapon, even the accessories he comes with that are nothing more than glorified crap mechtech

    -RiD Wheeljack and Soundwave which were displayed with FE Figures at CominCon seem to be Show Accurate and do not have mechtech weapons, but more or less what their show accurate FE counterparts may have had

    -FE Prime vs RiD Prime? I have no idea, FE Prime is so far ahead of RiD Prime in design choices and is extremely easy to transform. I have no idea why they flushed FE Prime. Same goes for Cliffjumper and even Bee.

    -Cost of Molds. The major changes from FE to RiD molds seem to be very very small simplicity tweaks and large mechtech weapons (i.e. Cliffjumper/Arcee).

    Now at 30 years old and a collector I can say that I like a TF with a good deal more engineering than a kid 5 years old, but for gods sake TF's USED to be AS complicated if not more YEARS ago. Do parents really think dumbing toys down will make them funner for kids?

    Isnt the purpose of the Transformer in essence a vehicle that changes into a robot? Isn't the engineering and figuring out the puzzle that IS the transformer its main gimmick and the point of the figure? If I wanted a small crappy toy with a HUGE gun I'd buy something else. Times changes and things change but Transformers certainly do not need to be dumbed down to the point where the toy itself suffers. FE Prime is a Different Prime in toy design from the last by far, as well as every other subsequent generation has been. Shouldnt that be enough to carry on the legacy of what a Transformer is with maybe a small gimmick added in? (mincons, headmasters, Targetmaster). And if you DO need to add a gimmick why not make it worth while like Headmasters, Targetmasters, Brainmasters, Minicons. Maybe I'm wrong but a lot of kids including myself used to take care of their toys from the 80's which had TONS of small accessories. Shouldnt kids be taught to take care of their belongings instead of kids/parents complain *toy a has too many parts* and thus the company makes it simpler?

    Hasbro needs to get back to basics. It seems some of them are still there (generations/FE) but the other part of the company wants to make GI JOE formers or something with large guns and dumbed down toys.
     
  2. LogicalLuke

    LogicalLuke Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Posts:
    1,074
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +0
    My son HATES the new versions. No kind of don't like, maybe it'll grow on me or I might like it in hand, literally said "Don't think about buying me anything like that, get the first versions or none at all. Those light up guns are awful and so are the new toys. What are they thinking?" I rolled soon as he said it. He's 9 and a pretty good judge of toys, being around me and all. :lol 

    It almost has to be a focus group of casuals or non-fans possibly if that is really what the decision came from. The whole thing just made no sense IMHO.
     
  3. Soundwinder

    Soundwinder I wind sounds!

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Posts:
    4,829
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +415
    Best I can figure, the RiD molds must be cheaper to produce. Thus mass producing thousands of RiD CJs costs them less than FE CJs, which is presumably how they're recouping the costs of new molds.

    FE vs. RiD Voyagers, I see the FE molds coming back eventually. The RiD has the presumably expensive light-up gimmick, which is a real selling point for the line. They can't cost much less than the FE versions.

    The Deluxes, on the other hand, well, Hasbro has no incentive to return to the FE molds. They presumably cost more, and Hasbro presumably thinks "eh, good enough." They were scrapped for cost, rather than a gimmick (considering that nowhere on the packaging even hints about the whole "dramatic head reveal gimmick"), so why would they use the expensive molds when the RiD are cheaper?
     
  4. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    71,594
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +9,158
    Cliffjumper's gun isn't even mechtech. It's one solid piece that can be held in tow different ways.

    The Vehicon is the opposite. The first one looks like something out of the RID line, and the RID version looks on par with FE.
     
  5. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Posts:
    17,634
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    242
    Likes:
    +14
    The only thing I have taken out of the whole debacle is this:

    - I personally believe that FE Bumblebee, Arcee CJ, Starscream, Voyager Optimus, Bulkhead and RiD Megatron, Wheeljack and Soundwave were all designed at the same time.

    - Everything besides those figures were designed after the fact.

    I fear that the RiD line will look more like RiD Knockout, CJ and Bumblebee and the great Prime FE designs are a thing of the past for whatever reason it maybe.

    Having said that, the Leader size OP does look good. So that is giving me some hope.
     
  6. Goldlock

    Goldlock and don't call me Shirley

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Posts:
    2,166
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +41
    Look at FE Cliffjumper next to the show model, overall it's the RID version that's far more accurate; though the FE has better arms/weapons.

    As for Wheeljack & Soundwave, as far as we know, they were never going to have 'FE' versions - they were always intended to go in the full range once Prime was given its own line. None of the deluxe figures have anything Mechtech anyway; that consolation lies solely with the voyagers.

    With Optimus, it's a case of the RID is what you get if the design didn't use cheats at the voyager level, as the FE did. The FE version makes for a better display piece in robot mode, but I remember the whinging when it first came out about how crappy it was because of the cheating transformation...

    I see where the OP's coming from, but Hasbro are trying to find that middle-man for kids & collectors - they stepped up complex figures during ROTF, which many of us loved, but kids (and their parents) absolutely hated because they couldn't transform the figures, or needed half an hour to do so. Since then it's been a case of trying to make things the children will actually want to play with - you wouldn't believe the amount of complaints i've personally heard about ROTF Optimus from parents, who thought it was pathetic to expect a kid to do it!

    The FE releases were primarily aimed at us collectors, whereas RID is trying to please everybody at the same time....that's how I see things anyway.
     
  7. bossman328

    bossman328 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Posts:
    1,937
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Location:
    detroit MI
    Likes:
    +26
    Ebay:
    I love soundwave wheeljack and Megatron. Ratchet looks pretty good. The RID Vehicon and Arcee look better than their FE counterparts in my opinion...but we can only get so much from pictures. I'm waiting until I get my hands on all of them before I pass judgement. I'm just happy to have something to hunt
     
  8. MegaHavok

    MegaHavok Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2002
    Posts:
    4,506
    News Credits:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +18
    I don't get all these weird ass conspiracys people are trying to make up. Prime first edition toys were designed before/during dotm by Eric.
    After dotm play patterns that were liked by hasbro in that toyline (cyberverse, mechtech) were carried forward to the new line. Rid has a different design team then fe because Eric, the head designer was moved to star wars
     
  9. zeroomegazx

    zeroomegazx I'm watching you...

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Posts:
    1,223
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +3
    I'm sure parents complained about some ROTF toys (i.e. leader prime) but all in all they really werent that bad. Heck the LAST RiD line (2000) with Fire Convoy and the Car Brothers were quite intricate as well. My Girlfriend at the time had a 7 year old brother who learned to deal with them fine. Animated also had some quite challenging figures as well.
     
  10. MisterFanwank

    MisterFanwank Toy Industry Analyst

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Posts:
    4,234
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +44
    Toys are supposed to be fun.

    RiD Bumblebee takes less effort to play with than FE bumblebee.

    RiD Cliffjumper has better legs that allow for more dynamic poses and wrist joints that are perfect for wielding melee weapons. He can do more interesting and imaginative poses, even though he is not as generally technically proficient as FE Cliffjumper.
     
  11. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Posts:
    17,526
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    367
    Likes:
    +615
    -And the first RID was followed up by the simpler and more gimmicky Armada. Seems like every so many years Hasbro feels the need to appease the parents who don't want to keep helping their "change it for me!" kids, and tells the Takara engineers to rein it in for a while.
     
  12. Kaymac

    Kaymac I'M REALLY FEELIN' IT!

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Posts:
    6,335
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +0
    I am a little disappointed, since even though the FE toys are available where I live, I can't find the ones I want. Just Bumblebee up here.

    To be honest though, RID does have some turds, but for the most part, it looks pretty good.

    Let's go through all of them, shall we:

    Cliffjumper: More accurate legs than FE, but no flip out cannons. He has a big hammer/gun though, in line with Cliff's tendency to lean towards the heavy artillery. Head sculpt is a bit more "angry", too. I guess it depends on what you want from a figure. Tie.

    Bumblebee: An easier Transformation, more solid plastic, and just better QC overall. No shoulder clips to break. Weird flap behind his head, and Automorph that may cause his neck to sit higher than it should on some copies. Not a bad toy, and may be a way to go if you want a better "toy", rather than a collector's item.

    Wheeljack: No FE version. Has an intriguing and complex transformation, and a very nice alt-mode. The swords have good storage in alt-mode, and in robot mode they can fit into sheaths. Pretty good looking toy, and pretty accurate. Face plate is down, and I actually think it would look better up though. Only real detriment I can find.

    Soundwave: No FE version. Looks very accurate to the show, integrates well with his Laserbeak companion, accurate in alt-mode as well. Only detriment is nothing on his face (they could've put some kind of tampograph), and there is some kibble on his legs too.

    Ratchet: Looks very accurate to the show, save for some paint aps. He also comes with decent sized weapons. He may have a backpack, but that is actually accurate to the show model. Looks pretty good.

    Arcee: Modifies the wings to be more accurate from the FE version, as well as the chest. May cause kibble problems with the front portion of the bike. Arms are painted to be more accurate. Still does nothing with the huge wheel on her back. Might be a win over the FE or a fail.

    Knockout: Looks GREAT in vehicle mode, and super accurate. The wheels are not yellow, but painted wheels are a bit of a rarity. He has an accurate weapon to the show, and everything looks to fold up quite nicely. His head is a tad too small, and his arms in the Toy Fair picture are either mistransformed, or modified since the prototype and Facebook pictures.

    Vehicon: Beats the FE hands down. Eliminates the back pack, but moves a lot of the kibble to the legs. The silhouette is helped by this modification, and emulates the more lithe, agile form of the cartoon model.

    Hot Shot: First repaint of the line. Big props to Hasbro for not making a lousy same character repaint of Bee. The head sculpt has moving goggles, which are a huge plus to many people who would otherwise not buy the figure.

    Optimus Prime: A more gimmick oriented figure, but ditches the fake chest Transformation in favor of using the actual windows. Big plus. He looks like a fine figure, and too many people are getting hung up on his gimmicks, with can in fact be removed. I think Powerizer Prime may have better proportions, too, but he is a little "dumpy" in the torso.

    Megatron: Badass looking toy. A little drab, but painting the entire toy metallic silver would have probably cost a lot in the paint applications department. The brushed metal texture is really cool too. Definitely a win, aside from his drab grey.

    Bulkhead: One of the worst offenders of this whole thing. Even worse considering FE Bulkhead was shortpacked and many may have to settle for this turd. Has a lame looking accessory with strange kibble hanging off. It's almost like it was supposed to integrate into the vehicle mode (which would kick ASS), but they dropped the idea without modifying the weapon to look more normal. The body is elongated and while his headsculpt looks a little less aggressive, overall it doesn't look good.

    Starscream: Looks like a very nice, tall voyager, but once again commits the act of relying on it's gimmick. The original weapon they showed looked pretty cool, and was all translucent plastic, what happened to that?

    Weaponizer Optimus: Shameful alt-mode. No attempt to hide the hands, and they just stick out the back of the cab like sore thumbs. Hollow legs, uses the fake chest transformation, and has a huge backpack. Looks like he's waiting to fail over.

    Weaponizer Bee: Suffers similarly, but it seems there was no attempt to make an accurate transformation. None of his vehicle mode tires wind up where they do on the show model. Instead the resort to using fake detailing for his robot mode wheels. It's one of the biggest cheats in TF history. Even the RID deluxe pulled off the transformation better.

    So yeah, for the most part, Deluxes are pretty good, voyagers Decepticons are good, and both Weaponizers are turds.
     
  13. LeTigre

    LeTigre Meat popsicle

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Posts:
    1,378
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +276
    People are way too hung up on the gimmicks and the few errors in detail to notice this figure is actually better proportioned than the FE. The FE is honestly too broad in the chest and squat in the torso, and people ignore that since it ironically gets most of the details right.
     
  14. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    Posts:
    82,270
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +690
    I'm glad I have Bulkhead. :D 

    No way the RID could even out do the topy in quality. I can see why the others aren't as bad but Bulkhead is the only true dud of RID.
     
  15. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Posts:
    16,719
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    302
    Likes:
    +1,797
    I'm thinking of getting the Japanese micron version of RiD Cliffjumper, since the micron transforms into a more show accurate weapon.
     
  16. zeroomegazx

    zeroomegazx I'm watching you...

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Posts:
    1,223
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +3
    *Fun* is very subjective to the person playing with the toy. I can tell you that my 3 1/2 year old son and 2 of his friends from school PREFER the much more show accurate figures. And you would think at that age they would want more gimmicks than accuracy. Sure he cant transform any of his toys but I help teach him how to do it. If you people think that parents bitching about *playing* with their kids and transforming their toys with them is OK then you all need a class in parenting. Parents should be right there with their kids playing with ANYTHING they want, its 1/2 the fun of being a parent to spend time with your child not throw him a toy and let them do it themselves while you go screw off.
     
  17. Ironhide4

    Ironhide4 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Posts:
    2,146
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +1
    Ebay:
    I have the theory that FE's were cancelled due to Ireland and the UK getting rid first.

    If we take things logically and into perspective this is how it looked, fe's distrubution was tough and were going for a big push then boom, argos released images of the rid's and sold them.

    The US customers(no offense) had a whine about europe getting them first as what happened with windcharger and the fe's were abruptly stopped in this period. Fans clamoured to get rids from europe at mad prices instead of waiting. So hasbro looked out for the US fans and released the rid's. We haven't got a wide release here yet!

    I have gotten word that retailers in Ireland and the UK have been punished for release dates being early by argos, our lines have been pushed back as far as april/may for the first wave and new figures.

    So if we take it into account the timing of all this happened then I think it's easy to see that hasblow looked after the US consumer but also cancelled a line that would have done well.
     
  18. zeroomegazx

    zeroomegazx I'm watching you...

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Posts:
    1,223
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +3
    I also don't mind FE Primes *fake* or *cheat* windows. To make the windows really not cheat on that figure would require some engineering they might not want to invest into the toy. RiD Voyager Prime does have real windows but they dont turn completely like they do in the TV Model. FE Primes I can also accept as they cover the real windows to make them look show accurate, its not like some other movie voyager primes that completely cheat the transformation chest area.
     
  19. Spoiler

    Spoiler Autobot Spoiler

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Posts:
    9,057
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +5
    Um, wow! I think I may retract my statement about a kid not really caring about the difference. YOU SEE THAT HASBRO!? The kids even know!!!!

    I swear, they make the mechtech things for people with ADD, that way it is all shocking for us. It's like: "Aw, a crappy gun, this button probably doesn't do...HOLY SHIT! It pops out!!!!"
     
  20. ex dtw2003

    ex dtw2003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Posts:
    6,982
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +307
    Well, some Mech Tech works really well and some doesn't.

    I haven't seen DotM Ratchet's wepaon since I opened that figure - my son 3 1/2 ran off with it almost as immediately as he got his hands on it.

    Looks like crap strapped onto alt mode but he doesn't really care. He just love playing with teh weapon while I enjoy mucking with the actual figure. (Suprsingly, there really is a LOT of win in that little guy.)

    He also has DotM Thundercracker (blue SS repaint) and he really mostly plays with the static weapon.

    Anyway, re: the Prime line, I would LOVE to have FE Cliffy but I'm not paying ebay prices so I'll settle with RiD Cliffy and just toss him on my classics shelf mostly in alt mode.
     

Share This Page