Thomas Wayne JR?

Discussion in 'Comic Books and Graphic Novels' started by Hotshotprime43, Aug 14, 2012.

?

Is he Thomas JR?

  1. Yes i believe he is Thomas JR

    5 vote(s)
    27.8%
  2. No i think he is not

    7 vote(s)
    38.9%
  3. I have no idea

    6 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. Hotshotprime43

    Hotshotprime43 Well-Known Member

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    After reading Batman: Court of Owls that main Villain says he is Thomas Wayne JR. Now if you have read this you are aware of what I'm talking about. But Batman says there is no proof because he dosent have a sample of "Thomas jr" DNA.

    Now do you think that was the actual Thomas Wayne Jr or a random child picked buy the owls to believe he is to kill Bruce Wayne

    I don't know what to believe so i have no idea if it is him or not
     
  2. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    I don't care it'll probably be retconned later
     
  3. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Personally, I'd rather see some resolution on the whole Dr Hurt is Thomas Wayne thing. I don't think we need any more skeletons in the Wayne family tree.

    It seemed to me from reading the backup strip that Bruce's younger brother died as a child and the Owls simply latched on to a random anonymous child to mold as they required. Seemed to me like the whole thing was basically a headgame.
     
  4. Bendimus Prime

    Bendimus Prime Rolls for initiative TFW2005 Supporter

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    I agree. I think the real Thomas Wayne Jr. died, and this was some other child the Court convinced was the real thing as a way to mess with Bruce.

    There was no way they could have known he would have grown up to be Batman, but I'm sure they knew because of his background he'd be an industrialist and developer.

    I actually really like the idea of the character overall. It brings Owlman into Earth-0 since New 52 Earth-2 is now the JSA universe, and a villain that can easily stay toe-to-toe with Batman (mentally and physically) is a good read IMO.. I look forward to him coming back at some point.
     
  5. Scantron

    Scantron Well-Known Member

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    He's really Thomas Wayne Jr until some future writer decides that he's not. Or, conversely, he's not really Thomas Wayne Jr until some future writer decides that he is.
     
  6. ABH1979

    ABH1979 Anonymous Bucket Head Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    A little of this and a little of that, though I prefer it if the truth was never never really discovered. That way, the reader can decide whether or not it is or isn't Thomas Wayne.

    But either way, everything gets retconned eventually.
     
  7. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    The pragmatic answer. Here is a man who understands what to expect.
     
  8. WidowMaker91

    WidowMaker91 Well-Known Member

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    Yep reason why I don't get mad about stupid changes to my favorite characters anymore it's just a matter of time till another editior who wants the characters to be like they where when he was a kid comes along.
     
  9. Shatterpoint

    Shatterpoint Neato

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    I kinda hope he is, I always wanted to see what would happen if Bruce ever found out he still has a living family member.
     
  10. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    Um didn't they resolve it already? I seem to recall that during the Return of Bruce Wayne event, they revealed him to be an an ancestor of Bruce Wayne named Thomas Wayne, and then taken controlled by Darkseid or something to that effect.

    As for the Owlman/Thomas Wayne Jr, well, I'd rather they keep it a mystery, always more fun that way. You don't really know if the Court is just messing with Bruce psychologically by putting up some orphan as his brother, or if they really did steal him away and trained his the real Thomas to be an Owl.
     
  11. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    It's funny how we've read these things, they weren't all that long ago, and yet there is zero retention of them. I couldn't tell you how the story ended any better than that. In fact, I didn't even remember as much as you did. I like Morrison, I read the issues as they came out, but apparently they just made no impression on me at all.
     
  12. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    I feel that way with a lot of the recent Avengers and X-Men comics. :p  For example, I remember Marvel made a big deal of the X-Men vs Vampire thing during its relaunch, I remember reading through them, but for the life of me, I can't remember what the heck happened aside from turning Jubilee into a vamp or how the heck it was resolved.
     
  13. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Yeah, so much of the stuff now they try to build up but there's no emotional weight behind the stories, so you forget it instantly. Mental fast food. It will fill you up temporarily, but no nutritional value at all and completely unsatisfying.

    There is some truly great recent stuff from the Big-2 out there, but it's few and far between.
     
  14. Sinestro

    Sinestro Well-Known Member

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    It was mentioned in Batman & Robin #10 as they were going through the portrait gallery, Robin takes notice of an empty space and Alfred says

    "That gap is the only acknowledgment of the existence of Thomas Wayne, the black sheep of the family."
    "Back in the 1760s, Thomas led a rather distinguished sect of devil worshippers apparently."
    "They summoned an ancient bat-demon of the Miagani tribe and ll kinds of terrible and bloody bargains were struck, or so the story goes".

    Anyway go to issue 16 and at the beginning you'll find pretty much the above, I took that as confirmation Dr Hurt was a Thomas Wayne, just not the one he was making himself out to be.

    As far as Thomas Wayne Jr is concerned, a fucking horrible clichéd character and story, which is just a shame considering how good The Court of Owls storyline was. Anyway, yes I believe it's Bruce's brother, the back-up story didn't leave much room for him to be anyone else.
     
  15. Star Saber

    Star Saber Cybertron 5th Commander

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    Hm? The backup story never confirms it either. Jarvis says they lost the boy in the accident. In a later piece of dialogue, the Court merely says they "took what they wanted, the school is gone, and a little Wayne too."

    That really is just about as vague as anything. The graveyard scene later on also leaves it up in the air. I do agree the Thomas Wayne connection seemed a bit forced, but I guess Snyder felt he could pay respect to Batman lore established previously as well as Grant Morrison's Earth 2. He doesn't confirm it anyway, so so far nothing's changed. Of course DC could use this much the same way they used Jason Todd in the Hush storyline.
     
  16. ABH1979

    ABH1979 Anonymous Bucket Head Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    I thought the Dr Hurt/Thomas Wayne thing was all wrapped up in the Return of Bruce Wayne (and Batman and Robin).

    Yeah, this^.

    The thing I don't really recall, is how it tied to the Omega Sanction and Darkseid from Final Crisis. Didn't Thomas Wayne and whatever the Bat-demon was called, piggyback on Bruce during the Return? Wasn't that how he, a Wayne ancestor, was alive in the "Present?"

    I love a lot of Morrison's stories, and they make sense at the time, but damn it can be hard to remember exactly what happened and where.
     
  17. Sinestro

    Sinestro Well-Known Member

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    It's probably been left for the reader to draw their own conclusions, honestly I hope they leave it alone. Batman having a long lost brother was something DC parodied in a Lobo special a few years ago (I believe it was the Joker), and not something I would expect to see in today's comics with such an established character as Batman, I mean really, what next? The return of Martha Wayne?
     
  18. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Eh, I think that's how reading comics work. We read so much and so fast that there is no way to remember it all. I just reread Planetary over the past few nights, and it was like reading it for the first time. The only thing that I could remember before the reread was how awesome I thought the series had been. I wasn't wrong.

    Truthfully, I don't need new comics anymore, I have so many series and runs that I've probably only read once, that I could probably spent the next five years reading through them all as if they were new comics.
     
  19. Chris McFeely

    Chris McFeely Well-Known Member

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    The "Bat-Demon", believed by Hurt/Wayne to be the demon Barbatos (the legend of which had ACTUALLY been inspired by Bruce's prehistoric exploits), was actually the Hyper-Adapter, a Fourth World creature sent by Darkseid to follow Bruce through time and prompt his jumps. Wayne made contact with it while it was tumbling back through time after being defeated at the end of "Return of Bruce Wayne", and tainted him with its power, making him long-lived and a shade/avatar of Darkseid in some indistinct way. Hurt professed to the "hole in things" as an analogy meant to convince Batman (and the readers) that he was the Devil, and he WAS, in effect, being that he was the god of all evil. The "hole" metaphor also referred to the hole left by Darkseid in reality during his "fall" that preceded "Final Crisis"; said hole was also described as "Darkseid-shaped" and "shaped like God" at various points to strengthen it.
     
  20. ABH1979

    ABH1979 Anonymous Bucket Head Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    Awesome. I need to re-read Planetary and eventually, The Authority, too.

    I really want to like the New 52 Stormwatch, but it doesn't hold up to Ellis' work.

    Great, thanks for that, and kudos if that all came from memory.

    I couldn't even remember the names Barbatos or Hyper-Adapter. I just finished re-reading Batman: RIP, and I'm re-reading Batman and Robin (vol. 1) right now. So I'm just now re-experiencing all of this.
     

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