There's not enough time for characterisation

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Shizuka, Nov 26, 2011.

  1. Shizuka

    Shizuka Optimus Prime's scriptor

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    The truth is that there are just way too many characters for there to be sufficient characterisation and for there to be enough the films would have to be even longer.

    To add to this these are action films which demands well placed action sequences to keep the audience engaged. Remember how people complained about the pacing in TF1? The Transformers are the action sequences in a human heavy series.

    Will people be satisfied with long gaps between action is instead of human characterisation we had TF characterisation instead?

    The best way to get this characterisation is either to create longer movies or more movies.

    People say that Prime did characterisation right however they conveniently omit the fact that there are more episodes and the characterisation has primarily been done through episodes specific to a single character. This would be impossible in the films as we can't have 23 minutes dedicated to one character when there is such a large cast.

    We could have had a few minutes of characterisation but it still wouldn't add up to much unless they added them in every now and then, building up across not only TF1 movie but throughout the entire series so far.
     
  2. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    I do agree with you to an extent. However, the thing is that with a tight, coherent story and a competent writer, proper characterization isn't out of the question, even with movies such as these.

    There's just so much that has to be done in these movies that one thing is going to get the shaft, or the other. Or this thing. Something will suffer. You have lots of action to show, but you also need to develop the story. You have upwards of a dozen main/supporting human characters, and an equal amount of robot cast (who cost 10X the amount of human actors to put on the screen).

    "Proper" characterization could be achieved with these movies if they were say, 3.5 hours long, or if the human and robot cast was diminished by half.
     
  3. Honorbound

    Honorbound The Reclusive Semi-Lurker

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    That last option would work well; I'd say trim down the Autobot cast to just the original four survivors and develop their characters, while the Decepticons would focus solely on the upper echelon (Megatron, Soundwave, Starscream) and their machinations, leaving the remaining Decepticons as nameless minions that you see in every action movie ever (why fans are complaining about it in Transformers is beyond me).

    For the humans, you could easily scrap Sam's story arc after the first movie, focusing solely on NEST. Sam could actually get to enjoy his peace, or Megatron could kill him in Mission City and take the Allspark, animating the machines of Mission City and forcing Optimus to fight harder to destroy the Allspark. The surviving Mission City drones could be Megatron's new army.
     
  4. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    There are many movies that do a great job of characterisation with a shorter running time than BayFormers tends to have. Even ensemble movies that have to juggle ten or more characters.

    The solution isn't a longer running time, it's doing better job writing the characters. Or just use less characters to cover the things a movie needs to do. One great skill of writing is realising that two or more roles can be merged into a single character. It makes for a stronger and more interesting character and means the viewer doesn't have to keep being introduced to another new character or keep skipping between too many people.
    Tighten things up, not stretch them out.
     
  5. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Well not so much charecterisation but having personalities or purpose. Seriously when you think of it not many of the Transformers had any or had little purpose. (Ratchet is basically a wasted charecter as we never see him fix anything, save lives, he stands their like half of the time saying "smart" things.

    I think Transformers: Prime is doing better than Bayformers because of their charecter dyanmic (though Prime is boring and BB doesn't talk and neither does Soundwave) but still
     
  6. Moy

    Moy Constructicons!

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    I think it has to do more with money than the actual running time of the films.
    I'm sure that a longer movie would have more scenes though, but Paramount probably prefer creating more movies instead.

    I for one would love a 4 hour TF flick if it included more Shockwave and Barricade.
     
  7. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    I don't agree with this at all. The Bayverse movies wasted so much time on comedy bits, neglected to utilize Transformers ability to talk in car mode, and on top of that they didn't even use simple lines that could give character... I mean these movies failed to even show any emotion over a major character being brutally murdered, but had Bumblebee mourn over a character introduced in the last movie.

    For the most part, the robots don't react to what's going on around them.

    There's not enough time to fully characterize them, but I'm sorry, between in battle chatter (which was done very poorly), missed opportunities, and just poor writing, these movies didn't do justice to the characters.

    Examples of good writing are Laserbeak... he had the most character of any Con in the trilogy and he didn't need a ton of lines for you to understand what he was, who he was, and his motivation.
     
  8. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    ^This. The Bayverse at the end of the day was just missed story oppurtunity with good action.
     
  9. einis

    einis Want some candy?

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    15-20 minutes less of humans,more focus on robots and DOTM would have been a lot better.
     
  10. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    If there isn't enough time in a two and a half hour movie for CHARACTERIZATION, one of the most important aspects of ANY film, then something is extremely wrong with the script. If you don't have enough time to make characters that the audience can identify with, get into, and actually feel for, you either have too many characters, are not using them effectively, or both.

    Characters in many of the television shows and comics are often developed better in one episode or issue than most characters throughout the entire film in the Bay movies.

    I guess the main character of the 2nd and 3rd movies is an explosion, and the main story focuses on him blowing up.
     
  11. LacksAFace

    LacksAFace Devastator's Balls

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    Well in ROTF the characterisation sucked, in DOTM it was a bit better...
    But yes, less human scenes. What disappointed me about DOTM was so much time spent with Sam looking for a job and how most of the Chicago battle focused solely on NEST with the Autobots showing up in the last 15 minutes of the film.
     
  12. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    I don't know. Slow-Motion seemed to be the most prominent supporting character. She really seemed to get into her character, if a bit...slowly.
     
  13. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Wait Slow-Mo from TFA was in it......wow didn't even know that. :p 
     
  14. shadow2879

    shadow2879 Banned

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    I wouldnt say characterization was not present in the 3 movies as some characters like Prime and Bee did get fleshed out over the span of the 3 films but in all it was disappointing how when main characters like Jazz and or Ironhide get killed off, they are all but forgotten about and not even mourned over in a way you would think the Autobots would mourn over a fallen comrade who they have been fighting next to for thousands of years. When Jazz died, all we got was an "Ahh Jazz." from Optimuse and absolutely not even a word of mourning for Ironhide who by far was a way more important and main character than Jazz was. Bee mourned over the dead Wheeljack/Que who wasnt even in the movie long enough for most to like and then there was other things like in ROTF when Bee really cried because he couldnt go to collage with Sam. So we get emotion for this but not the loss of a fellow Autobot?
     
  15. shadow2879

    shadow2879 Banned

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    THIS... I get the whole showing Sam moving on from the ex and getting a job but half the movie was about him getting a job lol There was way to much time wasted on him and his job.
     
  16. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    Yeah! This means that Bay doesn't completely hate the franchise! :D  He's referencing Animated too! ;) 

    But on the topic of 'characterization', I will always argue that for only being in one movie (rather than three like Optimus, Megatron, 'Bee, Starscream, etc.), Sentinel Prime was the single. best. character in the trilogy. He had ample screentime, ample dialogue, he had goals and a way of achieving said goals, his interactions with Optimus were superb, he was a complex character and to mix things up, he was an amazing plot twist. Possibly the best thing to come of the live-action films in general.

    And I love his voice actor, design and alternate mode too. :D 
     
  17. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Her relationship with shaky-cam was really involved. That's the kind of depth and candidness characters need to show in modern film.
     
  18. shadow2879

    shadow2879 Banned

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    yeah... i would have to agree there.
     

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