The Whole Plate: Transformers and Film Studies

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by BattleUpSaber, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. TheMadScientist

    TheMadScientist Well-Known Member

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    I've no problem with it. It'd certainly be better than, I'm sure, any others I've had to read or listen to in which the whole thing is just surface material and recaps, but I'll have to see first.
     
  2. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Lighter of Darkest Hours

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    That's always the vibe I got from interviews and videos. He likes to have fun and joke around, but there is a time and place for that. When it's time to work he is going to get it done. He works hard and expects his cast and crew to be professionals and do their jobs, he seems like he will put the metaphorical boot to ass to get people on task if he has to.
     
  3. Swoop Dogg

    Swoop Dogg me King!

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    I watched the first two videos and didn't really see anything where she gave Bay credit for anything. If anything, she is giving him back handed complements with all the video that she is using from the movie. She is pretty much just using the video that most people dispise from the film - Devastator's balls, Bumblebee peeing, etc. I don't see how you can call these videos unbiased or objective.
     
  4. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Thank you this is exactly what I was trying to say and why I practically laughed when someone accused me of disrupting an unbiased debate thread. If one was going to objectively analyze Bay here's an example. His use of female characters. Bay's use of female characters is mixed at best though it does yield some intriguing details. It's not uncommon for Bay to be called sexist and while it's true he can't really create strong female character it's not entirely a result of sexism once one takes a closer look.

    Carly is far more successful than Sam and has more accomplishments especially considering she was part of the British government. She has confidence in herself yet isn't afraid to admit when she needs support, she appreciates what she has and sees Sam for who he is, she even has the courage to confront Megatron. She's certainly more intelligent than Sam and even more grateful and compassionate. Tessa is clearly more responsible than Cade she taught him to cook, balance his checkbook, makes certain he eats, is a straight A student, and even manages to find time for a job as a navigator meaning she's likely the one paying the bills. She shows resourcefulness when on the ship and mostly handles herself, Cade blasting through everything with a gun certainly contrasts Tessa using cages and other things to conceal herself and avoid the scanners to survive.

    Neither of these are a negative image on women since both examples are more responsible. The issue however is that they aren't as physically capable and often need protection in that category, since the movies are very physical this doesn't leave much physical activity for them to do. He's clearly not trying to make them appear weak but he's not very good at making them really physically capable they're often mentally capable but not physically and in a movie like this you need a balance of both to properly create a strong female character. It's an uneven and clunky portrayal of women that needs a lot of work but it's not outright sexism.

    That's how you analyze a flaw of Bay's fairly.
     
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  5. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    And yet her most memorable scene is when her arse fills the screen! :lol 
     
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  6. Swoop Dogg

    Swoop Dogg me King!

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    Personally, I like that scene!
     
  7. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Me too. Hard for a woman to be victimized by showing her butt when, by profession, is a Victoria Secret model.

    Besides, to me her most memorable moment is that slow mo shot with cars flipping, explosions and carnage happening behind her.
     
  8. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    I like it too, hard for any heterosexual male not too... so pretty clear what the target demographic was, and what cord they were pulling. Here's a hint, it wasn't the "look how smart and progressive this chicks ass is" one!

    Her big break in hollywood, and she's still selling pants.
     
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  9. BattleUpSaber

    BattleUpSaber Result.

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  10. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    That reminds me of what German comedian Volker Pispers (who hasn't been involved in any major scandals, unlike Cosby) once said about so-called "business consultants":

    However, in all seriousness, your analogy is really absurd if you think about it. You are aware that Bay has a university degree in film? What does that make him?
     
  11. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    What was my analogy?
     
  12. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    You were being condescending over Lindsay being an intellectual and studying film at university, which Bay also did.
     
  13. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    That was my analogy?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  14. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    You quoted Bill Cosby. You either did it to make a point, or you did it just for the lulz.
     
  15. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    I wonder if she'll close the comments on the Feminist Theory video from the start? She sometimes does on the videos that she knows will attract the angry mouth-breathers and God knows that video will. The comments on the Mad Max Mini-Canon video were horrifying before they got cleaned up... and all she did was mention that Max ego wasn't hurt when Furiosa beat him up in a fight!

    But anyway, the thing is that Bay is a competent director: we're on to the fifth movie of a series with the same director that has been running for a full decade, none of which were particularly well-received but all of which has made money. One of the common observations of the movies is that they're very formulaic to one another in a lot of things and so of course Bay will be considering these different film schools when making the movies... and even if he's not, they're still present. Things like the camera usage (which comments on seems to have gotten people like Lord Tron riled up) and portrayal of female characters (which is sure to cause controversy when discussed in a future video) are all very intentional in order to influence viewers a certain way and fit into this money-making formula that Bay has created. That's what makes the movies worthy of discussing and why these videos are so interesting.

    Another thing to remember is that, while she obviously doesn't think they're good movies, Lindsay does actually like the Transformers movies. Sure, she is mostly enjoying TLK because of how bat-shit insane the plot was, but she's probably given the movie the most positive feedback of just about anyone I've seen.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  16. BattleUpSaber

    BattleUpSaber Result.

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  17. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    That could've gone pretty badly, but she summed up the issue perfectly and I agree. That's all I say besides the closing song was brilliant.
     
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  18. BarricadeLives

    BarricadeLives i'm you! i'm your shadow!

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    i will say that it takes multiple viewings to appreciate & better grasp what exactly is going on for better or worse (even from a plot perspective sometimes)..it took me about 5 years to realize the wreckers actually transform multiple times in dotm

    or that ironhide shot out demolisher's wheel (& hide & optimus could be seen jumping off of a crashing demolisher), or that skids can be see transforming in the scene where mudflap falls off his caboose as the ice cream truck, or that sideswipe was the one that wounded sentinel prime causing him to drop his coveted shield which really turned the battle against him, etc.

    personally, i love it, but idk how the average moviegoer is effected by this since they probably won't be watching it a bunch of times
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  19. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    So I've finally watched all the segments in her series so far. Sounds like she has a few more planned. It's interesting stuff. I think the bit about the constantly changing camera angles & requirement for the eyes to dart all over the screen to find the new focus of each shot was the most interesting technical observation.

    There is one thing I didn't hear mentioned in her videos, & that is that for the first movie they MADE IT HARD ON PURPOSE to see the robots because they weren't convinced the cgi was convincing enough.
    Of course, after the movie met with success, they would go on to say they should've won the oscsar for best special effects instead of Golden Compass and its polar bears (an assessment I agree with- those bears have not stood the test of time).
    But it's also reminiscent of Spielberg who thought the dinosaurs in JP1 looked too fake. Like, dude, that was 1994 & they still look good! Stop beating up your f/x guys! They worked miracles!
    Back to the point, the choice to obscure the robots in TF1 was deliberate, so if people find they are having a hard time picking out who's who in a fight, this is why. I never heard any public statements on whether they were actively choosing to obscure the robots for the sequels, or if they just continued to do so because that look worked for part 1.

    In her "Lady Robot" vid, she quoted Roberto Orci, when he was saying that female robots needed to be explained before they could introduce them.
    This is a problem that's been perpetuated by the comics since the Marvel UK days, with one writer basically pushing this argument as a means to exclude an idea that he saw as stupid. And this view was pushed for literally decades by the same singular individual despite the cartoons ALL having female characters & the wishes of Hasbro to try & broaden their audience to include girls. Silly Hasbro, you should've just let Budiansky make Ratchet female from the very start.

    So it doesn't surprise me to see this view persist, especially considering that many long-time fans consider the comics superior to the cartoons. The "true" version so to speak. Reprints & reiterating the "no gender but they all look & sound like dudes" view more recently in the IDW comics has also helped push this view onto a new generation of young TF fans, though it has largely been undone by the introduction of Caminus into the stories.

    The idea that the TFs have no sex & are seen as gendered males or females by organic species that tend to view everything as gendered is an interesting one. But to truly embrace that idea, it would naturally require that some TFs code as female. It could've even been flipped where the TFs visit an alien planet, where the coding is reversed and the typically male bots are seen as female by the locals.

    The solution they came up with was probably more boring than the "no sex, but they code as male & female when viewed by organic species". Instead they looked to the toons examples & just made the TFs literally male & female.

    Anyway, interesting vid. Hope she turned the comments off. YouTube comments are bad on a good day. I can just imagine what they'll be like with this divisive topic.
     
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  20. BattleUpSaber

    BattleUpSaber Result.

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    Kinda-sorta-related-but-not-really
     
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