The Unreliability Of Modern Critics

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by BattleUpSaber, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. BattleUpSaber

    BattleUpSaber Result.

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    With the recent debates of fans vs. critics over movies such as Ghostbusters(2016) and Suicide Squad, I thought it'd be worth sharing this interesting video I found on the subject. Definitely raise some interesting points, or at least I thought so.

    What do you ppl think?
     
  2. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    Eh I think it really has to do with which critic is the right one to listen to or at least willing to see what his or her thoughts differ from yours. Sure there are some I really don't agree with but there are times when an opinion is just an opinion even if you don't agree with it.
     
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  3. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    The whole thing comes across as yet another angry DC fan boy attempting to gloss over the problems of the DC movies by going oh yea well this other movie stunk and the mean old critics were not mean to that movie.

    If you want to show that movie critics are somehow not fair then you need more than just Suicide Squad and Ghostbusters 2016 to go by. You need several films so that you can show an actual pattern. Using only two films you can say almost anything. It also doesn't help the more apples and oranges you get as I've seen some people try to bring up the Sharknado score to compare to Suicide Squad somewhere in a commits section. It would help to dig up several superhero movies and compare those to see if there is a bias among critics, toss in some Fox and Sony superhero films so it wasn't all just Marvel/Disney vs Warner/DC.

    Sorry but Suicide Squad has some serious issues in the fundamentals of film making. You can't just take away something like the poorly done editing just because fans would be upset that you said the film wasn't perfect. In the basics of film making Ghostbusters is a more well polished movie than Suicide Squad. Maybe you enjoyed one film better than the other but that doesn't change the fundamentals.

    Making money, oh boy not that old chestnut of oh well the movie made money so that must mean it's perfect and the critics were totally wrong. Box office doesn't have anything to with how good a movie is. Countless examples you could point to where a great movie didn't make much money and a bad movie haul in the money by the boat load. Popular Batman villains in a movie, Will Smith back to form, a great ad campaign behind it and no real competition after it's release date. I'd be floored if Suicide Squad had failed to make money.

    It's like the video would try to say something like fans aren't crying because the film wasn't perfect and then it turns around and cries that the critics didn't give the movie a perfect score. Once it got all political sounding about sexism and guns I gave up watching it. The potential for a good topic turned sour by jumping off the rails into a pointless PC vs not PC rant.
     
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  4. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

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    Doesn't make the case very well with just two movies, and seems to be accusing everyone else of having an agenda.
     
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  5. Rodimus74

    Rodimus74 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that everyone is a critic now thanks to the internet and more to the matter Youtube. I can't stand Youtube critics and I don't see how they get so popular. Bottom line, think for yourself people. If a movie looks interesting to you and you alone then go see it! To hell with what Rotten Tomatoes and Youtubers think.
     
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  6. Starscream 91

    Starscream 91 Mech With A Mouth

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    ^ Pretty much, if I see a trailer and find it interesting then sure I'll go see it. Said that with Ghostbusters, Suicide Squad, TMNT 2, etc. I'm not about to let some critic or anyone for that matter dictate if I see a movie or not.
     
  7. edgs2099

    edgs2099 Optimistically realistic. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Everyone is a critic, and most critics are douches.
     
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  8. Honorbound

    Honorbound The Working Hermit

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    The only real way to get any use out of a critic is to find one whose tastes align with yours. Otherwise, it's an exercise in frustration.
     
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  9. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    I've said this elsewhere, but part of the problem with critics today is that both we the audience, and they the critics, keep confusing the idea of fine arts criticism (a.k.a. critical analysis) with consumer advocacy reports (i.e. what do they think we'll enjoy watching if we buy tickets?) Another part of the problem is that aggregate scores are pretty useless in both cases. Critical analysis is not a popularity contest, and aggregating consumer enjoyment is only useful if you enjoy the exact same things as everyone else.
     
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  10. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    When everyone is a critic, no one is a critic. Why this Internet generation is so concerned with what other people think of the entertainment they consume is beyond me.
     
  11. Stryker055

    Stryker055 History Man Extraordinare

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    More people need to realize that it's okay to like a bad movie. Just because a movie is technically bad and poorly made doesn't mean you can't enjoy it; subjective enjoyment and objective quality are two very separate things.
     
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  12. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    Even "objective" quality is not entirely objective.

    "We say thing A is bad because it fails at criteria X, Y, and Z."
    "How do we know it fails at those criteria?"
    "Personal evaluation against other works."
    "How did we even decide on criteria X, Y, and Z?"
    "Because those are the criteria met by all other successful works."
    "How do we know those works were successful?"
    "Because those are the works that we subjectively like."

    Subjectivity + history + consensus + plus critical analysis + more subjectivity = "objectivity"
     
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  13. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus Your opinion was noted. Now get lost. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Agreed. When you're only looking at two different movies, especially when those movies are essentially apples and oranges, you can't really make a case for unfairness or that the critics have some secret agenda. Honestly though, this guy just sounds like a butthurt fan and I pretty much gave up when he started jumping the shark on the points he was making. I'm not sure what sexism and guns have to do with anything he was talking about prior to that.

    This 100%. What does it matter what someone else thinks about a movie you personally enjoyed? I said something similar in the Miyazaki thread and I'll say it here: Just because someone is big in the industry doesn't mean that they know all or that their opinion on a matter is somehow correct. Like what you like, watch what interests you and read things you enjoy reading. Who cares what someone else's opinions on the subject are as they're all subjective? I you like it than you do you.

    As for YouTube critics I think the problem really stems from the fact that people in today's age are actually scared of having an opinion that doesn't line up with 'the majority' and that's why these guys and sites like Rotten Tomatoes get popular. Kind of like the masses are saying "We'd rather not have an opinion that we had to formulate on our own so please tell us what to think Mr. Internet!". That's my take on the upswing trend in this area anyways.

    Also, just for the record I enjoyed both of these films to some extent. That's not to say that both films didn't have their share of issues, but I personally enjoyed them both.

    Agreed.
     
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  14. Galvatross

    Galvatross Swamp Lord Shrek-traoridinairre! Veteran

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    Flamepanther gets it.

    And this, too!
     
  15. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    The only way to not let anyone influence or dictate what movies you see would be to go to your local multiplex, assign each movie a number, and then roll a dice to pick the movie you were going to see. Everyone is influenced in some way that's why studios spend so much money on trailers, TV ads, billboards, and any other way they can think of to market their movies.

    There seems to be this weird idea out there that if you read a review on Rotten Tomatoes or you watch a review on You Tube that you've entered into some sort of legal obligation to either see or not see a film. It's really not any different than deciding you want to read an Auto magazine or look up some information on a car on the net rather than saying I'm only going to buy a car based on the TV ads and what they told me at the dealership. Some people feel like they don't need a lot of information before buying a movie ticket and some people want more information. It's not like there is some wrong or right way to decide on watching a movie or not.

    Perhaps I'm just reading it wrong but some times people seem rather hostile and superior because they didn't check out any reviews but someone else said I don't know I want to see what the reviews are first.
     
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  16. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    I read and listen to critics but that's more because I enjoy discussing the merits of film/games/to etc as forms of art and expression as well as sources of sweet explosions and other hedonistic spectacles.

    I mean if you don't like them don't listen to them or read them.
     
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  17. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Something I wish more discussions would focus more on is the Average Rating score.

    With movies that are almost all A scores or 5 out 5 scores the Average Rating isn't a factor. With a movie that gets mostly an F or 1 out of 5 the Average Rating isn't a factor. But when a movie falls somewhere in the middle with a C or 2.5 out of 5 then that Average Rating seems kind of important.

    A movie like Toy Story you can kind of go on just the Tomato Meter because that 100% matches up nicely with the Average Rating of 9/10, a movie all critics loved. A movie like The Disappointments Room you could go on just the Tomato Meter because that 0% matches up nicely with the Average Rating of 2.7/10, all the critics seemed to really hate it. But movies like Ghostbusters (2016) and Suicide Squad don't fall nicely into every critic loved it or every critic hated it. With all those middle scores it only take a little bit to make one fresh and one rotten. The Average Rating for Ghostbusters was 6.5/10 so hardly a ringing endorsement by critics. The Average Rating for Suicide Squad was 4.7/10 so hardly critics calling it the worst film ever.

    People tend to only look at the Tomato Meter and totally ignore the Average Rating so they can build up their conspiracy theories about the evil cabal of movie critics attempting to bring down a franchise.
     
  18. bumblebeej8

    bumblebeej8 Pinpoint Doodle User#3

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    See I enjoy critiquing movies, they are fun, especially when I do not like the style or the way the story was written. But I sure as hell know that my opinion doesn't mean jack-shit to the guy next to me.

    But all this hell over Rotten Tomatoes is really stupid. Only two movies were mentioned here. Two. If there was a pattern, like Ash from Carolina said, I might look into it. But even then, it is subjection.

    It should also be noted that proportionally we as the audience see a lot less movies than the critics, so we don't always see the same stuff they do. Like they might be used to the "We're going to die" line, or a constant plot point in sequels. So their ratings are going to be less than ours because they might catch more than we do.

    Also, I find it funny that it the thought process of us becomes a requirement that whether we see a movie or not after seeing a review of a specific film. It is a thought that comes through our minds, but it is not something we will be thinking about day and night until we make a decision.

    I only respect a few Youtube Critics, and even then, I don't take their opinions all that seriously, hell I don't even care about the percentage on Rotten Tomatoes (but I would pick critic opinion over general audience reception given how I do act like a movie critic myself sometimes, but I don't shove my opinion down their throats).

    But, that's just my opinion, and you can interpret this shitty situation how you want, because I'd be an ass saying that my opinion will become your opinion as soon as you read it.
     

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