The Source Material is a Lot More Interesting Due to 1986 and Beyond

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Galvatross, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Ditko

    Ditko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Posts:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    47
    Likes:
    +34
    We're discussing this in 2017 and I am working my way through Japanese Headmasters episodes so I don't think it declined at all. I remember when it disappeared from the air I was crushed so I get the point that it did go dormant, but the post '86 storylines and characters has a lot to do with why we're still here. The real world alt modes, Optimus and the original seasons will always be their strength.....but as a diehard Optimus fan I would not be into Transformers right now without Sixshot, Fort Max, Ultra Magnus etc. what bothered me about the post movie cartoons, including the Japanese series, is it just wound up back being about Autobots fighting Decepticons for the most part again. Using the Quintessons or synthesizing something new would be cool.

    Personally I have never understood how Transformers has not used the idea of Cybertron tech or Earth tech being used ala ExoSquad, but for the purpose of hunting Transformers. Some cool toy opportunities and very fertile for storylines
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Fishsticks

    Fishsticks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Posts:
    378
    Trophy Points:
    132
    Location:
    Australia, Earth
    Likes:
    +306
    I'm pretty sure that happened in IDW

    Anyway, some of my favourite episodes and characters are from S3 and later, so yeah, I think it did get a lot more interesting as it went along
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Decepticons

    Decepticons Eye Con Nick

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Posts:
    4,042
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +26
    There's no doubt the 1986 movie and third season made G1 better. The first and second seasons were far too repetitive with the exceptions of episodes like Starscream's Brigade and The Ultimate Doom.

    The earlier seasons are nice to rewatch but the third season is leagues better due to its originality. The movie also greatly benefited the franchise by introducing much of the lore we know today.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Ditko

    Ditko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Posts:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    47
    Likes:
    +34
    It did, Earth Resistance or something, I just think it would be a cool toy execution too.
     
  5. HereticalHeresy

    HereticalHeresy Decepticon

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Posts:
    2,754
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +109
    I absolutely agree. I think there are a lot of major elements that Post Movie TF gives us that completely shape the brand. Let's take a look at some things. What are the major contributions that pre-Movie G1 gives us, aside from the characters themselves? Which, I know sounds ludicrous, but hear me out. I think just having the characters isn't good enough, you need the world built around them. Pre-movie gave us Alpha Trion, Vector Sigma, and the Orion Pax origin. We also received combiners, and the concept of Transformers each having individual superpowers.

    Then comes the movie. The biggest things are the introduction of the Matrix, and Unicron, two hugely major things that shaped the entire brand, but that's not all. We also got the Quintessons who helped shaped the first creation myth, and although we don't necessarily still hold that one to this day, they still end up playing a part in the lore as enslavers of the planet. It also gave us the initial Autobot/Decepticon origin, where autobots were regular workers and cons were gladiators. I don't know when Megatron was mentioned to be a gladiator in Marvel, but still, cons initially being gladiators that rose up is something that also plays a huge part in many continuities. It also gave us Headmasters and Targetmasters, who I whole heartedly believe are the precursor to minicons.

    But the absolute biggest thing that I'd say Post-Movie did for the series, was demonstrate what a "Prime" is. Prior to the movie, Optimus Prime, well that was just his name. But with the movie, and renaming of Hot Rod into "Rodimus Prime" followed by S3 happenings. Really, think about how widely different the whole series would be if "Prime" just remained Optimus' last name. I think that's honestly far more important than even the Matrix, because what series hasn't had something about what a Prime meant? Even in Animated where there was no matrix, Prime had its own meaning as a rank. Or how you have continuities where Megatron wants to be a Prime. I think that's honestly the biggest thing to come from post-movie.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. electronic456

    electronic456 擎天柱

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Posts:
    2,245
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +978
    We sure owe the 1986 movie some of the lore.

    The Matrix, Unicron, Quintessons....I think we owe them that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Slingshot

    Slingshot Headmaster

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Posts:
    5,053
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    242
    Likes:
    +301
    The Movie and Season 3 were without a doubt the better half of G1's cartoon. I feel the characters were interesting, the designs were better, and it didn't destroy the whole concept of "robots in disguise" as bad as the first two seasons did.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. NaCl

    NaCl Noobie who likes boobies

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Posts:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    27
    Likes:
    +28
    Personally, I thought the movie was the high point of the series. It had a good balance of action and one-liners, with actual deaths. ...If only to sell toys...
    After that I never really cared for G2. It wasn't the usual desert setting with the ten Autobots that got used in every episode. It was Rodimus struggling to be a leader and trying to diplomatically interact with alien races while Galvatron SCREAMS like the depraved lunatic he is.
    That's not robots shooting robots! That's robots being in space running from other robots until they find the trouble to resolve for the plot. And then shooting other robots.


    I wish they would do a new G1 cartoon like the movie and Prime, where it feels like the shots fired have actual consequences instead of just being essentially a big laser tag game with the occasional super ocean draining laser added in so Megatron would have something to yell at Starscream about.
     
  9. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    3,717
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +386
    Sorry friend but you are a bit confused

    Rodimus prime and the stuff for you complained about are not from G2, they over from season three of G1
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. NaCl

    NaCl Noobie who likes boobies

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Posts:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    27
    Likes:
    +28
    My bad, 1:30 ranting. .-.
    I tend to confuse G2 with season three G1 since season three seems like a different show from one and two.
     
  11. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    3,717
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +386
    yeah no big deal
     
  12. Prime Noble

    Prime Noble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
    Posts:
    4,533
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +1,882
    The Movie was a positive influence. It inspired Simon Furman to write classics like Target 2006 and Time Wars though it's a shame he followed a similar route with Galvatron going insane though he did give a better explanation.

    I much preferred the sane Galvatron from the movie and Target 2006.

    He also wrote Rodimus Prime very well and still does given that Rodimus was the best thing in Regeneration.

    Not forgetting the movie inspiring the Primus origin. As a kid I loved the Transformers having their own theology. It really added weight to the mythology. Primacron was and is a horrible idea.

    Cartoon wise, I much prefer season 3 to season 2 which I can never forgive for crap like Alpha Trion, Orion Pax and Kremzeek.

    Don't get me wrong, I did like some S2 episodes and thought certain characters were portrayed very well like Tracks, Hoist and the Stunticons. Overall though I found it the weakest season.

    My only misgiving with season 3 was the smaller cast but that's because it focused on characters I don't like such as Wreck-Gar, Kup, the Predacons, Blitzwing and Arcee. I never minded Wheelie.

    When I was younger I didn't like the Quintessons or even Death's Head because I didn't like any non Transformer character getting the spotlight.

    As an adult I grew to really appreciate the Quints as villains and liked how the Universe comics reconciled both the Quintesson and Primus origins without cobtradincting either.

    Though I grew up on Marvel UK which was usually better written, I did prefer certain portrayals from the cartoon over the comics. The loyal, capable lieutenant Cyclonus was in the cartoon was far more likeable than the 2d thug he was in the comics.

    Rodimus was more of a badass and could actually be quite funny.

    But I digress, the movie definitely contributed positively to the franchise. The highlight for me being the death of Optimus Prime.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Posts:
    6,077
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Likes:
    +1,617
    Was the movie the beginning of the end of G1? No. That actually goes to "Five Faces of Darkness". Despite the death of beloved Optimus Prime, as a kid, I was eager to watch more. The movie set a REALLY high bar.

    And all that came crashing down with FFoD. Despite shoehorning some of the soundtrack into the episodes, the undeniable dip in animation, Rodimus willing to "kill" himself and making Galvatron just a weird nutter completely dampened my enthusiasm.

    That being said, the absolute REAL reason G1 began to die around 1987 was because kids like me were aging out of the franchise. I was seven when Gobots and Transformers began appearing in stores. In 1987, I was 10 going on 11...and quickly running out of friends to "play toys" with. As such, the kids that launched the franchise were simply dropping out. Pair this with, I'm sorry fans of 1988-90, the atrocity that was Pretenders and the obvious cash-grab on the latest toy craze that was Micromasters and the death knell was rung. Non-transforming Transformers sealed the casket.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Venixion

    Venixion So-Cal Girl

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Posts:
    4,541
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,250
    I prefer the first two seasons. Season three has some gems in both characters and episodes, but the plots got weird/boring/cringeworthy and some of the characters they introduced were awful. (Plus Rodimus is a piss-poor excuse of a Prime)

    Don't get me wrong, the first two seasons had some dumb, shitty episodes and obnoxious characters too. Like, I think Warpath and Powerglide are annoying, but they don't show up as often as Wheelie and Daniel do.

    I notice a lot of cartoons that last several seasons are like that. They start off decently, hit their peak and then begin either a very weird, or very boring decline.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  15. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Always in someone's corner

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Posts:
    4,786
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Location:
    California
    Likes:
    +8,285
    G1 only got more interesting as time went on. I think it would have been a fascinating (and rather depraved) show if it had continued past '87 and clung closer to the tech specs. Lots of absolutely insane Decepticons, asshole Autobots, and other in-betweens from '88 to '90.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
    • Like Like x 5
  16. Galvatross

    Galvatross Make it Mac Tonight! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Posts:
    3,768
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +2,563
    Yes! I would have absolutely loved that!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    Posts:
    17,690
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    The Lost Light
    Likes:
    +2,005
    Season 3 did a whole lot of world building that never happened like this in the previous seasons. I also prefer the space opera style. Robots turning into vehicles is already cool enough, I don't need puny humans beside them to see that they are big. Of course there are also some great episodes in the previous episodes like War Dawn or Starscream's Brigade. I wish we could have gotten a full season 4 and not only 3 episodes :( 
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Venixion

    Venixion So-Cal Girl

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Posts:
    4,541
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,250

    Yeah, but it's nice to know there are aliens who make them look like teensy figurines in comparison. :D 
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Rodimus Primal

    Rodimus Primal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2002
    Posts:
    1,061
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Likes:
    +45
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    YouTube:
    I loved a lot of Season 3 clearly as I have been a huge Rodimus Prime fan for so long. The world building was interesting and could have been explored even more if they didn't stop making episodes after Rebirth. I've often argued that G1 did NOT decline after the Movie, it was just the budget was completely blown after the Movie and Sunbow basically went under afterwards. I also think that the Return of Optimus Prime should have waited a Season until his Powermaster toy came out, but that's just me.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Posts:
    17,526
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    367
    Likes:
    +614
    Even though most 'casuals' usually only think of the early characters and stuff when recalling anything Transformers (other than the Bay films). I can't help but wonder what the Transformers franchise's impact on pop culture would be today if it stuck with the "Optimus, Megatron, rotating side-characters, energy raids and macguffins" statis quo for its entire run, much like many other '80s toy properties did.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page