The Simple Things

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Kittie Rose, Sep 3, 2006.

  1. Kittie Rose

    Kittie Rose Banned

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    A lot of the complaints about the movie are actually relatively simple, but their existence makes it seem like the makers of this movie don't know what they're doing.

    What (reasonably) simple changes would have restored your faith in the movie, or in a potetnial sequel? Let's try to be constructive, no flat out anti-Geewun/anti-movie bitching.

    1. Cleaner Prime robot mode. The flames were alright on the truck but tacky in robot mode and there's all kinds of mess, the doors blocking the chest windows and spikes make it hard for me to look at. Needs clearer chest windows(have area under/around windows slide away to reveal more "glass"), and some kind of faux-grill. See if there's a way of doing a new flame pattern, or funky gradient so his legs end up blue, and his top red. Reverting Prime to the way he was in the original concept art would be great. Why did they make the problem worse when they knew it would be controversial?

    2. Tweak Megatron to one of the "armoured" designs found in the Fan Art sections of most TF forums. Make his face more like the face he tends to have in just about every TF continuity; a little less monstrous, a little more arrogant.

    3. G1/UT Head on Starscream. Change posture a little, even if it makes him very tall.

    4. Make Ironhide red.

    5. Repaint Ratchet a less "septic" looking colour.

    6. Cut some of the military scenes, more emphasis on the TFs as characters. Most people don't really care about Sector 7 or whatever they're called, they want to know how Prime and Megatron interact.

    7. Make Jazz taller? Might be a big change, though.

    8. Make the plating on Bumblebee less "broken" and give him a G1/Classics-style head.

    9. Stop Don Murphy, etc. attacking the fans. A lot of people applaud him for being "badass", but he's giving the movie a bad image. If he's defending the movie by attacking the fans instead of showing us stuff we like, it doesn't look good.

    10. Get rid of the "Evolved Machines" thing they have in the script.

    Any more suggestions?
     
  2. Seth Buzzard

    Seth Buzzard R.I.P. Buzzbeak Content Contributor

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    I think it’s too late for any big changes in the script or the way the bots look. Also remember that some of what we have seen was early concept art and not necessarily the final design.

    I do give Don a little credit for actually addressing the fans but he could be doing it in a more professional way. Stooping to the level of some of the haters and name calling doesn’t do much for my faith in the project.
     
  3. Shaun_C

    Shaun_C The REAL One True fan Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    I agree on #9 on the premise that the way I was raised by my parents.When you have a problem with someone you talk it out.And to NOT go on this rampage of verbally assulting the person.As it tends to be quicksand from that point

    From where I stand the fault is 2 fold.

    The general fandom is at fault because of the vicious verbal assults.And I've seen them on most of the TF boards.Which is the equivalent of baiting the bear.

    Don's at fault for taking the bait and fighting back.I can understand why Don reacted like that as I used to be the same way. In my younger adult years if someone verbally attacked me,I verbally assulted them 10 times worse in reaction.I didn't like how talking to people like that made me feel.So now days as direct as I am,I'm always speaking respectfully.And if I'm attacked verbally I still maintain control at all times.Because when you lose control you lose a part of yourself in the process.
     
  4. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

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    i refuse to opine on the movies development on the basis that, we have actually been doing that for the past year or so and what have theyve done to reflect our input?

    not much.

    what makes you think after ignoring most of our suggestions/thoughts/hopes all this while that they would suddenly want to consider it now? and if they do start to do that based on how well the movie does, what makes you think there will be a sequel if it does poorly?
     
  5. Kittie Rose

    Kittie Rose Banned

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    KA, I think this movie is going to go the way of the Ang Lee Hulk movie.

    It will perform decently but be critically smashed and start to drop off after a good opening weekend.

    With Hulk, they didn't give a crap about the fans for the first movie. Ang Lee is like Bay, a very "I'm doin' my own thing" kind of guy, which doesn't work too well with a comic book with 40 years of Mythos been thrown out the window.

    So now they're making the new movie for the fans. It's got the Hulk in it, he smashes stuff up. A real, proper Hulk villian is in it; and it's Abomination, not the leader. They're even recasting.

    So if the first movie is similiar to Hulk, they'll still want to make another movie, but as sequels tend to do slightly worse than the originals, Michael Bay's Transformers will be a poor starting point.

    They'll get a whole new director and do the movie much more true to the original.

    So if we make out what exactly it is we want changed, whoever is woring on the sequel/redux in a couple of years time may take them to heart. And at least we can say we were coherent in our complaints instead of just bitching(which is, IMO, understandable if your favourite franchise of 20 years is being promoted as something it's not, as opposed to being paid ridiculous amounts of money to have your name tacked onto a big budget movie and actually having to deal with some complaints).

    You have to admire Sam Raimi. Venom was a villian he was particularly apathetic about. Putting him in what could be the defining movie of the series was a HUGE gesture to the fans. Almost everyone wanted Venom in it, except for the "I don't want any villians created past 1965" crowd. Even though that wasn't what he necessarily wanted to do, he did it anyway. He still does his own thing; putting Sandman in it, Gwen Stacy, but still does everything in a way he knows will excite the fans. Like Gwen Stacy looking really cute! Sandman looking EXACTLY like Sandman from the 60s comics, and having uber-cool powers!

    Bay would never do anything remotely resembling that. So it still bemuses me that people are using the "for the general public" remark - especially when most of the general public will either like the designs one way or the other, or remember the old ones and be upset.

    The directors should be the oens with the "Open mind", not us. Because Raimi kept an open mind about Venom, he now really loves the character. But should we have been "open minded" about Venom being bright green and looking like some kind of toxic monkey? No. The director is working off a source material that people feel strongly about so they HAVE to be open to fan suggestion and ideas they may not necessarily like. We are consumers of a product - we're going to be notoriously closed-minded.

    Transformers is much more of a geek-fest than Spider-man, which has more mass market appeal. So why is Transformers the one which doesn't give a toss about the fans?

    You can defend Bay all you like, but the fact is that we could have gotten a much more fan-friendly movie if another creative team was on it. This movie is very far out so the likehood is for it. And if it was more far out, it would probably be too unrecognisable for some people to be upset.
    You shouldn't look at it as "you should be happy to be getting a movie" - we were getting one anyway! It wasn't necessarily Bay or bust, not to mention how much I hate general conservative "be happy with what you get" nonsense. If everyone was always happy with what they got, we'd never improve anything. This is much how I feel about internet forums too(do you really think Bay/Nelson/some TF boards are right to ban people just because it's their forum and nobody should complain?), it applies to just about everything.
     
  6. Seth Buzzard

    Seth Buzzard R.I.P. Buzzbeak Content Contributor

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    Then how do you explain the X-Men? They changed just about everything you can change in that. Changes don’t inherently make something bad, the X-Men worked with the general public, Hulk didn’t and IMO there are too many unknowns with Transformers movie to get all fired up over it at this point.
     
  7. Blunticon

    Blunticon The Oddjob

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    I really think these guys know what they are doing. Yes, they are trying to hit a bigger market out there. This is big money people, they may looked over suggestions from fans but they want to target the whole world audience. This movie is far bigger than the fans can imagine as far as ideas. The have big wigs to follow and writers who change alot of things to after the general public. Look at x-men or TMNT for example, the kept a basisi of some charachters and names but still had to change alot and leave out things. In the end, this movie will be very good imo, they have the technology to pull it off..
     
  8. Kittie Rose

    Kittie Rose Banned

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    With X-men, their basic appearances, and apart from Storm who was mostly quiet anyway, personalities were the same.

    I mean, Wolverine had the hair, the grizzliness, the claws. Storm was black and had white hair. Jean had red hair. Professor X was a bald intelligent looking dude in a Wheelchair. Magneto was an oldish guy with a helmet and cape. He was taller but that's not something casual fans associate with him.

    The X-men tend to change their costumes a lot anyway. I don't think it's fair to compare robot designs to costumes, since robot designs are more permanent, all encompassing and are easier to get completely wrong.

    It's a lot about visual effect. Most humans have a very similiar visual effect. Costumes aren't what matter.

    But with robots, they can be all kinds of shape, and it's easy to change the visual effect. For instance, a long nose truck doesn't have the same visual effect as a flatnose truck a - a flat nose truck has this "wall of steel" effect I'm sure you'll be familiar with if you've ever watched Terminator 2.

    It's more comparable to changing someone's weight/body shape and nationality, perhaps.

    It's hard to describe, but there's still something very "X-men" about the X-men movies. I haven't gotten a "Transformers" feeling from anything movie related I've seen.

    I suppose apart from the costumes, there wasn't really any huge difference between the movie and comic book X-men. They were pretty much the same characters.

    Most importantly, the costumes didn't really say anthing for or against a particular personality, unlike the movie Transformers designs.
     
  9. Seth Buzzard

    Seth Buzzard R.I.P. Buzzbeak Content Contributor

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    By that rational the changes to the Hulk shouldn’t have mattered because Banner was a scientist that turned into a big green guy.
     
  10. IACON

    IACON "That's Vector Sigma?" TFW2005 Supporter

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    Here is my suggestion:

    Kill the Megatorm Prime blood line. They are not brothers for god sake.
     
  11. GundamHeavyArms

    GundamHeavyArms Zippity Doo Dah

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    I'd like for them to actually develop the characters if they want to rework the G1 mythos. I read that leaked script and there was hardly any character development.
     
  12. Dark_Convoy

    Dark_Convoy Old Bastard Veteran

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    My Suggestions for the TF movie:

    -Blow more shit up
    -More car chases
    -More robots fighting
    -Even more shit blowing up
     
  13. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    Kittie Rose, I believe it is the intent of the filmmakers for the Transformers to arrive largely unrecognizable as their traditional selves. Then, over the course of a series of films, they will adapt more human traits, which will in turn make them more recognizable to us fans. I have no basis for that, it's merely pure speculation on my part, but it seems like a logical way of addressing the Transformers very human appearances we're accustomed to.

    Having said that, I don't believe any of the items you mentioned would do anything to improve Transformers as a film. The majority of your list are aesthetic changes to make everything look more like what you're accustomed to. While hardcore fans would certainly appreciate them, they'll do nothing to improve the film's acceptance by general audiences. Ebert and Roeper aren't going to give Transformers two thumbs down because, "they totally screwed up the way Megatron's supposed to look".

    When Bumblebee is caught up in an intense action scene with Decepticons the likes of which we have never seen before, the division of his plates doesn't much matter.

    Remember, battle scenes in the G1 cartoon consisted of the Autobots and Decepticons standing across from eachother firing lasers in a dirt field. I really don't believe we can even fathom how amazing the live-action battle scenes will be with Bay and ILM at the helm. That's what's going to make this movie great.
     
  14. Kittie Rose

    Kittie Rose Banned

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    Deep, man. Deep.
     
  15. Steevy Maximus

    Steevy Maximus Movie Megs eats your soul

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    I agree with Cory, nothing suggested (aside from the character bit) would really add to the film aside from making it more "comfortable" to older fans.

    Having read the older script, I think they DO need more characterization on the TFs, but I doubt making Starscream a little taller or Ironhide red will improve the film at all, if it sucks, it sucks, but if it is good, it is good.
     
  16. Steevy Maximus

    Steevy Maximus Movie Megs eats your soul

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    I'm dissappointed


    You forgot the collateral damage :p 
     
  17. paskal

    paskal SHWOOOO!!

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    I don't think you'll have any problem enjoying the movie.

    More shit blowing up today downtown.
     
  18. GundamHeavyArms

    GundamHeavyArms Zippity Doo Dah

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    Using the script as a reference, It doesn't seem like the movie is going to be slam packed with Transformer on Transformer action, oh and I hate that *Spoiler* the Decepticons are killed by human weapons*End Spoiler*. Oh and I don't like that Megatron and Starscream don't really say one word to each other, how are they supposed to have a G1 like relationship if they don't speak?
     
  19. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    GundamHeavyArms, you have an old version of the script. Hope that answers your question.
     
  20. GundamHeavyArms

    GundamHeavyArms Zippity Doo Dah

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    It was a rhetorical question. But anyways, do you know where I could find an updated script?
     

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