The Reboot: Keep An Element/Lose An Element Game

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Mr. Chaos, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. Mr. Chaos

    Mr. Chaos Head of Illuminati Chapter 517

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    A very simple game: Pick one element of the current IDW universe you hope gets carried over and then pick one element that you hope is removed and never seen again.

    I'm not talking about characters... so no going "Grrr, no Windblade!" or anything like that. You can say a character's personality, storyline, look, or development... but you can't wipe out a character completely. So, for example, you COULD say "I would lose Windblade being a main character" but not "I want Tarn to never appear again! Ever!"

    You can also deal with plot points, settings, tone, or anything of the like.

    I'll start:

    Element to Keep: Megatron's depth. He doesn't need to be an Autobot but I have loved the depth Megatron has been given as it makes him a better character. The idea that he once dreamed of being a Medic. That he actually remembers the names of every Decepticon that ever served under him. Old Man Megatron, who is running on fumes and has lost the vigor of that rampaging young bot is just such a wonderful character and I'd hate for the reboot to turn him back into "Grrrr, Me Evil to be Evil!" Megatron. He CAN be evil, of course... I have no problem with that... but I would like the depth kept.

    Element to Lose: Female Transformers don't exist on Cybertron for... reasons. Ugh. Just... so stupid. I'm not saying that a massive deal needs to be made out of it... but in the relaunch (and it looks like it might go this way) just have it that there are male and female bots running around Cybertron. No "Arcee was once a guy but was given forced gender reassignment surgery"! No "Females are strange things that Cybertronians don't have but Ooops! Here are a bunch of ones from colonies!". Just... have Orion and Ariel be together. Chromia works with Ironhide. Windblade is from Kaon pre-war as the original fan-poll suggested. Strika is a legandary warrior for Cybertron. So on.
     
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  2. AshleyCuadra

    AshleyCuadra Tieria Prime

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    No Ariel or Orion pax thing NO
     
  3. Boatformer

    Boatformer Well-Known Member

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    KEEP: Functionism as a worldbuilding conceit, as it's an allegory for oppression that clearly isn't 1:1 with any real-world oppression, and is an interesting concept to explore in its own right.

    LOSE: Forged/Constructed as a worldbuilding conceit, as it's a bland "it's RACISM, do you GET IT" that quickly lends itself to unfortunate implications whenever anyone tries to explore it.
     
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  4. Negativedark

    Negativedark Stealth Gesalt

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    Keep: The idea of colonies. There's a lot you can do with various colonies of Transformers. You can have bots who've evolved in different ways, which is a good way to keep Beast Wars characters in (Though hopefully better realized than happened in the current run), or use all sorts of crazy concepts. If you have the war going on, you can have a lot of intrigue, as colonies try to stay out of the civil war, or secretly support on side or another, or are infiltrated and manipulated.

    Lose: Shockwave being behind everything. It's been nice to see, but he and his ores have been the explination for damn near everything a little too much, and he could use a rest.
     
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  5. shamanking282

    shamanking282 Well-Known Member

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    Keep: the nature of gender and legally/societally recognized relationships established in Phase 2, and continue to expand on them.

    Lose: the Hasbroverse.
     
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  6. NanakoPreame

    NanakoPreame Kpop and Sprite

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    Keep, I dunno, the colonies.
    Lose, the weird hateboner for religion.
     
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  7. deltaprime

    deltaprime The Christian Transfan

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    Keep the expansive cast that borrows from other iterations of the franchise. I loved seeing Beast Wars, UT, Animated characters, and so on get usage It's cool seeing one big, unified universe. So long as it's not something like "Hey guys, look it's Cheetor talking to Hot Shot!" in a single panel and then nothing else from it, it can be really cool. Granted, not everyone will get there own full story arc and sometimes it has to be a simple cameo, but it's nice when different eras of the franchise get blended in a meaningful way.

    Lose, well at least tone down a bit, the relationship side of the Cybertronians. Some good stuff came from IDW's exploration of gender and relationships in IDW. Concepts like Conjux Endurae were interesting. But I do believe there was a tendency to throw in various relationship and gender concepts just for the sake of having "representation" without properly building those relationships or individual characters in a natural way.
     
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  8. Maverick Hunter Christian

    Maverick Hunter Christian Choke on that, causality!

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    Keep: The Decepticon Uprising starting as a group rallying for social upheaval that lost its way along the way and turns into proper world-conquering-army. In my opinion, it lends legitimacy to the Decepticons on the whole, beyond being villains and when viewed in microcosm, we see these people are still just people. People who do awful things, granted. But still people.

    Lose: The 13 Primes. I honestly can't even properly articulate my objection to them, I'm just so over them as a concept. After the Unicron Trilogy, we collectively got exhausted of Unicron and got to put him away for a solid decade. I'd very much like to do the same with these fools. I want Liege Maximo to go back to be a gigantic monstrous space conqueror and stop being just robot Loki.

    Keep: Introducing brand-new characters who are interesting and thoughtfully injected into the narrative. Rung, Stardrive, Ambulon, Nautica, Velocity, Aileron have all been welcome additions and I'm happy to have them. But, y'know. Light touch. Gradually make them catastrophically important, if you must. Lookin' at you Drift (as originally conceived) and Anode...

    Lose: Introducing brand-new characters at the expense of developing existing characters. I'm gonna lean real hard into MTMTE/LL here, sorry. I love C-listers and D-listers, and outside of Rodimus, Ultra Magnus and Cyclonus; MTMTE started out as nothing but C and D listers. James Roberts turned over a dozen nobodies into household names in just a few issues. For a significant chunk of the fandom, Chromedome, Rewind, and Tailgate are pillars of the franchise now and the reason they stick around ...and Skids. Friggin' Skids. Dude whose biggest character trait was being a nobody. But over time, he kinda... stopped developing existing characters as more and more of the cast included brand-new characters (and I'll admit right here, he wanted a diverse cast and some new faces were required to do that) ...and as I said above, a lot of these newcomers have been lovely to get to know. But folks like Landmine, Hosehead, Siren, Slapdash, Strafe, Grapple, Huffer, and Brawn have been there the entire time and haven't gotten to do SFA.

    We have a tremendous backlog of characters that have existed for 30 plus years and we still don't know anything about them. Please use them.

    Bonus Round!

    Keep: Alex Milne. By god, the Unicron books are frigging gorgeous to behold.

    Lose: Optimus calling e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e "Old Friend." Stop it. STOP. IT.
     
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  9. Mr. Chaos

    Mr. Chaos Head of Illuminati Chapter 517

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    Keep: The idea that there are good Decepticons and evil Autobots. Again, it gives depth that there are Decepticons who are good bots who joined the cause believing it would result in freedom... and now are in so deep they can't get out. Or who attempt to still prove that the cause can be good. And on the flip side there are Autobots who believe that any action is worth winning the war. Pharma willing to sell off some patients to save the rest. Impactor breaking the laws of combat. That sort of thing.

    Lose: Trying to make Optimus into Superman/Batman. If you want to showcase a single character do a miniseries, like Drift: Empire of Stone. But one of the biggest mistakes they made in IDW was trying to make Optimus the focus ALL THE TIME.


    I am adding a third category to the game: Adjust. Where you like something but want them to tweak it or tone it down.

    Adjust: Interation with the rest of the Hasbro universe. They went too strong too quick and it damaged the brand. Some great things did come out of it (Rom crossover) so I think there is a way to do it... but with a lighter touch.
     
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  10. dj_convoy II

    dj_convoy II Remix!

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    Keep: alien society different to ours

    Lose: the hip attachment to Earth
     
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  11. misfire19d

    misfire19d Esteemed member of the Order of Fries

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    Keep: Transformers

    Lose: Ideologically possessed writers and editors.
     
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  12. shamanking282

    shamanking282 Well-Known Member

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    Keep: Representation

    Lose: the obnoxious fandom that automatically sees a LGBTQ character as "political".
     
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  13. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland

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    Keep: Prowl's personality

    Lose: The writers's ability to add more OCs
     
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  14. Bumblemus Prime

    Bumblemus Prime Cracked in the head

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    Keep: The IDW universe
    Lose: the idea that clean-slate reboots are ever a good idea

    Uh... that doesn't really follow the rules, does it?

    Seriously, my contribution is below, but clean-slate reboots have historically been a mixed bag. The New 52 was super-hyped, but as I recall, the successful series were those that mostly kept the old continuity but added a fresh, exciting creative team. Secret Wars objectively lost a lot of sales for Marvel. I suspect the new reboot will be much more on-brand with Hasbro's toys and possible cartoon, but that is historically the opposite of how to make a TF comic good.

    Keep: the general sense that the comic is not tied to the toys, except very marginally. IDW was always better when it had a very loose relationship to the toys, and the comics inspired toys instead of the other way around. Hawking toys nearly killed poor old Bob.

    Lose: The eternal need to set stories on Earth. I get it, it's part of the brand, but sooooo many good TF stories haven't bothered much with Earth--LSotW, Stormbringer, Ironhide, and did anyone really think the Neo-Knights improved On The Edge of Extinction?
     
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  15. Dramatic Spoon

    Dramatic Spoon Well-Known Member

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    Lose: the Infiltration protocol. I know part of it was to make them Robots in Disguise, but it feels like it never really amounted to anything.

    Keep: the idea of the DJD. The idea of the Ideological Secret Police is interesting, but I think it the horror aspect can be played up more.
    Not the "Hey look, we're creepy and creative when it comes to killing them", But the psychological horror of hearing they're near and encroaching dread of who they are coming after.
     
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  16. SG Roadbuster

    SG Roadbuster SG Wrecker

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    Lose: Hasbroverse, Transformers is a big enough franchise to support its own epic sci fi universe. we dont need GIJoe, Micronauts, and the Harlem Globetrotters mucking up the place.
    Keep: Colony Worlds and the integration of Transformers characters from outside of G1.

    Lose: Livio Ramondelli
    Keep: every single other artist who has ever worked on a Transformers comic. i'd gladly take Pat Lee or Yuki Ohshima artwork if meant never having to see Ramondeli's shitty scribbles ever again on a Transformers book.
     
  17. Thumbaticon

    Thumbaticon Shockwave is Snoke

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    Lose: 0.1 %ers. I know Roberts wanted to explain why some bots were uber powerful, but I'm suprised that there hasn't been as much debate on this topic compared to forged/constructed cold. I think it's kind of messed up since it means some Cybertronians are better than others before they're even technically born.
    Keep: Outliers. There could be interesting stories of the Bots and Cons in a race to find these unexplainable powerful bots to join their ranks...wait a minute... am I describing TF Armada?
     
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  18. misfire19d

    misfire19d Esteemed member of the Order of Fries

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    Keep: the war

    Lose: losers who need to be the center of attention
     
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  19. Inanimate Carbon Rodimus

    Inanimate Carbon Rodimus In Rod We Trust

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    - Keep - IDW Prowl’s personality. There’s no way the Autobots would have survived any kind of long war without having at least a few people like Prowl, who are willing to use questionable methods on occasion and do whatever it takes to win the war.
    - Lose - The idea of cosplay Ultra Magnus. There’s an actual, living Autobot named Ultra Magnus - not a series of random OCs wearing his corpse. Minimus Ambus can stay as a character and I actually like the ‘loadbearer’ idea - but have him as “Ambus Maximus’ or something.

    - Keep - The idea of the DJD. Although they were poorly-handled villain Sues, the idea that the Decepticons have a ‘secret police’ is a good one and hints at a broader military structure.
    - Lose - Shockwave as a main character. He’s prominent enough that he needs to still be around in some capacity, but he should have a background role for a long time.

    - Keep - The colonies. Great idea that never really had a chance to develop.
    - Lose - Romantic relationships between TFs. No more of this. ‘Straight’, ‘gay’, whatever, I don’t care. There’s no logical reason for a species of alien robots to have romantic relationships that are the same as humans. Hell, the overwhelming majority of animal species on our own planet don’t have the same kind of relationships we do.

    - Keep - Galvatron and Megatron as separate characters.
    - Lose - Any ‘magic’ objects. The Enigma of Combination, the Regenesis ores, the Magnificence, the Talisman, etc. Significantly downplay the Matrix as well - rather than a magic item, it’s just a ceremonial bauble that denotes the current Autobot leader.

    - Keep - The idea of Rossum’s Trinity. It served to make TFs ‘mortal’ and provided some limits on their durability.
    - Lose - The various ways all of the writers weaseled around Rossum’s Trinity when it wasn’t convenient. It should be a hard limit on what a character can survive and force writers to be careful about killing anyone off.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  20. ultramagnus1

    ultramagnus1 Well-Known Member

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    This is a good thread

    Keep. Galvatron and Megatron as separate characters. Having galvy be his own bot free of the shackles of Megatron and Unicron is a good thing.

    Get rid. The relationship obsession and pairing everyone up. Not needed. Please keep this to a minimum if they need to have it. Please.
     
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