The Prime family saga

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by QLRformer, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    Firstly, this centers on two assumptions:
    - Optimus said to Megatron in the first film: “You left me no choice, brother.” This would mean they were kindred, the Cybertronian Cain and Abel who took their rivalry to new heights. Some would disagree, saying they were just brother Cybertronians, but I hold to them being blood-brothers as it makes for a new and great dimension to their relationship, rather than G1’s rebel leaders (Megatron a gladiator and Optimus a record clerk?). It also presents the Transformers war as a blood feud, which Earth gets caught up in.

    - Sentinel Prime was leader of the Autobots before Optimus, as was explained in DOTM. This would make Sentinel a direct descendant of Optimus Prime, from before the war began. This would mean he was possibly a father Optimus Prime and by the above conection Megtron too, and probably sired them both (I use “sired” as in the genealogical sense, not physical).


    What I’m getting from this is: Sentinel Prime let a war between his own sons take place, sold out one son to the other to save Cybertron, had one son set up to be killed and deposed his other, and then got killed by them both?


    Yeesh. This is the stuff that the Borgias and Corleones are made of. If you think about it, this is Shakespearian in proportion, akin to THOR’s family saga (Odin, Thor and Loki). And like much of DOTM, it could have been handled in a more appropriate and awesome manner.

    Less humorously, it looks like Primes make for great villains: Megatron, the Falllen and Sentinel Prime are all Primes in some form. It would make sense, looking at the familial connections, for the new villain in TF4 to also be another sort of Prime.
     
  2. Firestorm777

    Firestorm777 Banned

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    That...actually...uh.
     
  3. PrimesRule

    PrimesRule Banned

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    Megatron is no Prime. Never was. Just because he and Optimus were referred to as brothers does not mean they're kindred.
    That would be like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker being related to each other even though Kenobi only first met Anakin when he was 10 yrs old.
     
  4. eagc7

    eagc7 Well-Known Member

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    Megatron is not really Optimus biological brother, he's his brother in arms. also Megatron is not a prime, cause if he were, then he would not be working for fallen, as Fallen promsied him that he would turn him into a prime if they succeded.
     
  5. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    1) The use of "brother" is metaphorical, since they worked together as leaders before the war.

    2) They're both Primes, but descendence may not be the same way in Cybertronian culture as in ours. It could be they were both built for the same purpose, and would be "related" in that way, or simply that they were both members of the same organization, which traced its membership back to the original Primes. Given ROTF, it's probably some mixture of the two, but their relationship is more "mentor/student" than "father/son".

    Furthermore, the idea of massive conflicts arising from Sibling Rivalries is as old as the sources you mention, and exceedingly common in fiction and fantasy. It's unlikely Transformers is drawing from those sources nearly as much as it is from archetype. The difference between the Norse Eddas, the Bible, and Shakespeare and DOTM is that those works managed to pull off the use of the archetype in a much better manner.
     
  6. Zhadow

    Zhadow Oh hi there

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    To be clear, Megatron has the rank Lord High Protector.
     
  7. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    To use analogies. Optimus and Megatron would be Charles Xavier and Magneto. Two people with different visions for their race. Hence once they were brothers.

    Their split began when they chose the ways of their mentors. The Fallen was like Papaltine who uses his apprentices to achieve his goal of revenge. He already ha the Prime line eliminated through his minions with only two known survivors. Luring Megatron to use the Allspark's power for himself.

    Optimus chose to follow Sentinel Prime's ideals, to the point he surpasses his mentor. Hence his honor before reason that Sentinel can't accept as it would lead to Cybertron's extinction. Sentinel Prime compromised his ideals to save both Autobot and Decepticon... And put Megatron in his place as he destroyed the utopia he worked so hard for.
     
  8. Hot Shot.

    Hot Shot. Giving up on the fiction.

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    Has it ever actually been said that the "brother" line was metaphorical by anyone closely involved in the movies? Because every time I see someone say it was, it comes across as a fan rationalizing their denial with no actual basis on their claim.

    I mean, let's face it: Michael Bay would just as soon make them "biological" brothers, just because. Whether or not it stuck, I think that was the intention in the beginning.
     
  9. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Everyone i know still thinks in the movies they're releated.
     
  10. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    The original Transformers script had Optimus and Megatron as brothers , sons of Sentinel Prime whom Megatron killed eating his spark. Sam was to have a vision by Sentinel telling him how it all began.

    Of course the writers Robert Orci and Alex Kurtzman changed their minds. Leaving leg room to work with for the sequel.

    The Primes title is something to be passed down but an indication they are blue blood royalty. Indications in ROTF that Transformers can reproduce.

    Megatron is not part of that aristocracy but got to where he was on his own.
     
  11. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    Which sort of makes me not want to live on this planet anymore. I'm assuming that whenever someone says "brother", said people automatically think they're siblings who used to play in the backyard and tattle on each other and suckled from the same teat?

    So, Rhodey is Tony Stark's biological brother? After all, Fury referred to Rhodey as "the little brother" when speaking to Tony in the donut shop. Probably had nothing to do with Fury's casual vernacular and Tony/Rhodey's close relationship? No. Definitely because they came from the same mother. Same thing with Transformers. Probably had nothing to do with Optimus alluding to an ambiguous relationship that he and Megatron once had where Megatron wasn't always evil. Nope. "HUR DUR Optimus said 'brother', that means they're biologically related!"

    Granted, there's about as much on-screen evidence to support them being legitimate "brothers" as there is to deny that. Which is to say, NONE.
     
  12. Meta777

    Meta777 Dr Pepper Fan

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    TylerMirage wins. Flawless victory. Logic-tality.

    Optimus mentions Megatron as his brother not due to robot-biological relation, but merely due to their close history before the war, when both of them, if you go by the comics, aided Sentinel Prime in his quest to find the Allspark and bring a sun to Cybertron. The two of them were close, and co-ruled Cybertron when Sentinel stepped down. When Megatron became overcame with jealousy over Optimus' legacy as the next Prime and began coveting the Allspark, and eventually began the War, their friendship mutated in the arch-rivalry we all know and watch.
     
  13. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    "Has it ever actually been said that the brother line was metaphorical by anyone closely involved in the movies? Because every time I see someone say it was, it comes across as a fan rationalizing their denial with no actual basis on their claim."
    According to Wikipedia, Peter Cullen interpreted the "brother" line literally. Orci and Kurtzman originally thought it as literal, but decided it was just a title with no familial connection.

    And TylerMirage, don't be so unfair to those who believe it's a blood. As I said, it's a new dimension to their relationship (they were never brothers before, and having them the Cain and Abel/Moses and Rameses of Cybertron, while possibly too simplistic and cliche, makes their relationship that more interesting). And anyway as you said, there isn't anything that shows they are or aren't; it's open, and up to opinion.
     
  14. Gravemind 95

    Gravemind 95 Wrecker

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    Remember when the Fallen said "only a prime can kill a prime". Then how was it that megatron killed Optimus? Megatron must be a prime somewhat.
     
  15. Zhadow

    Zhadow Oh hi there

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    The Fallen never said that, it was thus only a Prime can defeat him.

    Just as you know.
     
  16. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    Yeah, I'm not saying that the concept itself is stupid. I like it. Believe me, I do. I always like a history between a good guy and the villain. But there's virtually nothing to support the "oh my gosh they were totally brothers!" in the film itself, just because he said "brother". At most it's a vague line about their past history together, which he summed up by referring to Megatron as "brother". He could've said "old friend", "comrade", "misguided soul", etc., and the intent would've been the same.

    Consider when Optimus and The Fallen engage in battle in RotF.

    "Die, like your brothers!"
    "They were your brothers too!"


    In this context, they're simply saying that all Primes were 'brothers'. Close friends, from the same lineage, despite obviously not actually being legitimate brothers. It's like calling all Presidents 'brothers'. Kindred spirits who shared similar goals and behaviours and whatnot.
     
  17. PrimesRule

    PrimesRule Banned

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    The Fallen never said that. The Fallen was no longer a Prime anyway. He lost that title when he murdered prehistoric men who were hunting a tiger.
     
  18. megatron6661

    megatron6661 Well-Known Member

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    On the primes and megatron been promised, that was the sequel really when megatron was low on energon and rebuilt all wrong when he was resurrected, which ruined megatron's ability to stand toe to toe with optimus in terms of agility.

    But megatron never needed to be a prime, in his original form has we saw in TF1, he was a match for any prime, like sentinel and optimus. Megatron is and was the leader of the decepticons the strongest of his line, but back to megatron's original physical form in TF1, his physical body was basically a giant shield, he had better weapons than optimus and sentinel, he had flight tech, he could match the autobot leaders stroke for stroke in terms if agility, he was the closest thing to a autobot in terms of fighting ability.

    But megatron and optimus prime, much like any iconic enemy's, they have allot of history together, that you could make 3 movies out of. They are not blood brothers, but they are from the same planet, so optimus calls him brother in terms of what history they do have together
     
  19. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Which was a stupid idea in the first place. They forced one charecter to be the only person who could defeat him. I don't think its good story telling.
     
  20. PrimesRule

    PrimesRule Banned

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    If Bay wanted to make a decent ROTF story, he should've had Megatron kill The Fallen.
     

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