The new over-used Transformer cliche?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Kickback, May 24, 2006.

  1. Kickback

    Kickback Proud father Administrator Super Mod News Staff

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    It has to be the "bad guy going good" cliche. It's happened in every series since Beast Wars, minus Beast Machines.

    Beast Wars - Dinobot (an on-going thing through all seasons, albeit not so much in the "front" until season 2 and 3 with the clone)
    Robots in Disguise - Sky-Byte
    Armada - Starscream
    Energon - Scorponok & Alpha Quintesson
    Cybertron - Scourge

    Other than Optimus Prime having a super mode and combining with someone named either Jetfire or Wing Saber, what do you think is the new Transformers cliche?
     
  2. Joe Moore

    Joe Moore Is Not Jim... Administrator

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    Since RID it was the overly important humans. Energon started off on the right foot with Kicker, but his character became irritating and boring by series end.
     
  3. Roller

    Roller Keep on rollin'! TFW2005 Supporter

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    My favorite is the following scenario:

    "No don't do it, it's too dangerous!"
    "But I have to in order to save us!"
    "Don't do it soldier, that's an order!"

    autobot does it anyways, saves the day

    "Good work soldier! You did the right thing"

    I guess it's supposed to teach kids to disobey their leaders or something :) 
     
  4. Kickback

    Kickback Proud father Administrator Super Mod News Staff

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    It's obvious he was emo. I mean, did you see how often he changed his hair color?
     
  5. Kickback

    Kickback Proud father Administrator Super Mod News Staff

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    In real-life, that's a court marshall!
     
  6. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus Your opinion was noted. Now get lost. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Every series since RID has had a "powered-up" character have a simple color change rather than a new mould.

    RID - Prowl, Side Burn and X-Brawn all become "Super" versions whenever they're close to Ultra Magnus and Megatron becomes Galvatron... forget how that happened though. One could argue that Galvy is a new mould, but you can do every TF with Megatron that you can with Galvatron!

    Armada - Hot Shot and Red Alert get "Powerlinx" forms from Minicon supercharging. Megatron becomes Galvatron and Starscream becomes Thundercracker in the same fashion. While pour Demolishor simply gets a "Powerlinx" form. Optimus Prime gets a color change in his final battle with Galvatron inside Unicron... although I don't remember what was supposed to have triggered the change. And in the toyline almost everyone gets a "Powerlinx" repaint inside the line with only maybe five to six exceptions... whom were all repainted later as different characters within either Energon or Universe.

    Energon - I think just about every Autobot in the cartoon gets a "super" upgrade by absorbing Primus' energy towards the tail end of the series. Hot Shot, Landmine, Cliffjumper, Ironhide and Jetfire... of note though is that the toyline released at least three of those as different characters instead of the powered up versions seen in the show. And later, in the extended ending of the series (really extended) Megatron jumps into a pool of "super energon" to become Galvatron again and Starscream jumps in too... still Starscream though.

    Cybertron - Thankfully kept to a minimum. Only one I can think of in the actual show is Megatron to Galvatron. All the other repaint powerups in Cybertron are none show only done only for to help extend the toyline state-side.

    Which, hopefully, means this cliche' may be nearing an end?
     
  7. Autobus Prime

    Autobus Prime Transit Former

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    I guess you can get away with a lot more when the army is only about a dozen strong and has little hope for many new recruits.

    I don't mind the 'boring human kids' in Cybertron. I find this is easier with proper treatment for chronic jerking knees. :)  Keep the humans, kids and all; just make sure they get good characterization.

    I could do without the endless powering-up. More than that, I wish the fights would involve more fisticuffs, swordplay, and gunfire, instead of glowing and exploding. No more Tai Chi for you, Prime. In fact, get rid of the green glow around everybody but Autobots like Windcharger whose special power uses powerful force fields.

    How about not upgrading Megs to Galvy for a change? Use both versions at once like the Marvel comics briefly did -- have G. be a time-jumped future version of Megatron. That could cause interesting tension through the whole series. Alternatively, have Galvatron be an alternate-universe Megatron.
     
  8. Kickback

    Kickback Proud father Administrator Super Mod News Staff

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    How about Galvatron, the son of Megatron!? :D 
     
  9. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    I think the "colour change powerup" is definately overused. In fact, powering up, be it a new body or not, after mortal damage seems massively overdone. It's like nobody can actually die, but instead death is simply a means to a stronger power. Think of it - RiD Car Bros get stomped until they're powered up. Megatron in RiD, Armada and Cybertron gets the stuffing knocked out of him until he upgrades. Various others - Smokescreen, the Vanguard team, Energon Inferno as well as half the rest of the Energon Autobots - all get blown away before powering up. Too predictable. It's even worse when they're back next episode! At least Energon Inferno stayed dead for one or two episodes before reviving.

    Bad guys going good is getting a little old, as are characters who straddle the factions and play both sides to their own advantage.

    One other one that's been overused since Beast Machines is the idea that everyone becomes one to fight the final battle. In Beast Machines, there was the twist of it being Megatron who is doing it, and in spite of that he's defeated. RiD, all the kids power up Fort Max who then gives his power to Omega Prime. Armada, both factions cast aside their differences to fight Unicron. Energon, they physically merge into one being for the final fight. Cybertron does it too. Heck, even Headmasters did it back in '87 with the "everyone joins hands and powers up Fort Max".

    But then, the idea of their being an enemy bigger than both sides has been done. Even though some series keep the Decepticons the enemy, since Armada there's always been something more to it. At least RiD and Cybertron kept it as Megatron's ambitions being the big threat, though Cybertron falls into the trap since it has the Grand Black Hole as the bigger threat and Megatron just tries to use it.
     
  10. Nerd Bomber

    Nerd Bomber Consulting your needs

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    Jetstorm semi turns sides; he does so involuntarily when he's back to silverbolt, but I think it could count.
     
  11. ambushbug74

    ambushbug74 Stroke me, Stroke me! TFW2005 Supporter

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    The whole "Hey I change into something else besides a robot"! Now that has been way over used since G1. What?
     
  12. Starscream49

    Starscream49 More TFs than you

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    Well Tankor does switch sides in Beast Machines but Megatron quickly reprograms him back.

    If it didnt happen in a series I would say it didnt in RID. Skybyte never really switched sides just wasnt as evil as mega/galvatron wanted him to be. He still pledged his total allegence to the preds.
     
  13. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    No one said unicron? wow. I'm gonna say unicron.
     
  14. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus Your opinion was noted. Now get lost. TFW2005 Supporter

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    I second the motion and bring to the floor that Unicron should be banned from TF fiction until further notice.

    All those in favor say Aye!
     
  15. Rumble02

    Rumble02 Radicon of Obliticons

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    that and needing to find things that add to thier power, minicons, the right person to powerlink with with, keys. I never got how taking two and turning them into one made them so strong.
     
  16. Starscream49

    Starscream49 More TFs than you

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    While we are at it can we bann humans?
     
  17. Moroni Prime

    Moroni Prime #TFYLP Podcast

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    #1 overused = STARTING THE WHOLE FRICKIN' FRANCHISE OVER, AS IF NO PREVIOUS LINE EXISTED. (Alt universes, etc.)
    #2 overused = Optimus Prim(e/al)
    #3 overused = (Mega/Galva)Tron
    #4 overused = repaints being powered up forms instead of whole new characters.
    #5 overused = Activation Codes (Maximize/Terrorize/Transform/Powerlinx/Cyber Key Power)


    Why don't they just make a new series that is set completely apart from the standard "alternate universe retelling of the same story" crap. Something that doesn't always involve earth. Something that doesn't even have Optimus and Megatron for starters.

    I know all you guys are gonna say they tried that with Rodimus Prime and failed, but I think the idea was sound, they just carried it out the wrong way. They should start a series, one that takes place on ancient cybertron, before any familiar characters show up... before the familiar characters are even built and programmed. Like start out in the golden age, let Alpha Trion (A3) lead the Autobots against the forces of the Quintessons. I know this is a throw back to G1, but there's so much potential in there. Nameless Bots that became reluctant soldiers, Guardian Robots, Sharkticons, Q. Judges, etc....

    That could be the first in an ongoing, continuous series that could continue on and branch out from there. Then later on, they could bring in a young rookie Orion Pax, they could create prototype war machines, and call one of them Megatron. They can start the great war, heck they can continue after the Ark and Nemesis leave Cybertron.... because we know that nothing interesting happens for another 4,000,000 years on earth, there's enless possibilities for adventures on ancient cybertron... but no... they have to be gimmicky, they have to appeal to 7 year old poachers who trap endangered animals in little balls, and force them to fight. This is wrong. Hasbro needs to stop repeating past mistakes, learn from them, and do what is right. They need to decide on one storyline, one continuity, stick with it, expand upon it, and turn it into something great. Why do you suppose Dragonball Z, Star Wars, Star Trek are so popular?
     
  18. Shaun_C

    Shaun_C The REAL One True fan Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    My 2 cents

    Interesting topic KB,but 1 quick question.Is there ACTUALLY any cartoon on TV right now that DOESN'T use some cliche?

    And to stay on topic I say

    THE AUTOBOT MATRIX is the biggest Transformers cliche ever.

    The matrix was referenced in RID,seen in BW S3,Armada and Cybertron.In fact I'd be surprised to NOT see the matrix in a Transformers series
     
  19. OmegaScourge

    OmegaScourge Custom Made TFW2005 Supporter

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    the greatest one: MILLION REPAINTs of figures
     
  20. Cast

    Cast Roll the dice

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    You know I’d like to see a good TF go bad, we’re always seeing con side with the bots but other than Armada wheeljack who really didn’t do that much, you never really got the feel that he stabbed the autobots in the back, no autobot has ever really gone bad, I just like to see that played out really. Like a weak autobot switching sides for greater power or some thing, I mean it at least hasn’t been done before at least not and stuck.

    On the whole megatron > galvatron thing, I wouldn’t mind it so much if they got a remould in there, I mean like the crumple zone to dark crumple zone remould, I’m sure we could all live with it a little longer if they changed the toy that much.

    Also I am sure a lot of you are going to scream and say no to this but how about to give the show a more epic feel we go back to the BM idea of drones, have only a hand full of cons all with a repaint that is one of the drone army under that ones control, I mean megatron and probably a con ultra or two shouldn’t have then cos that would through the whole thing, then have the whole rest of the line be autobots and there repaints show up in the show even if its only as back ground characters just to give the show a much more war like feel given they would actually have armys.

    Also how about just for a while switch the leaders to ultra magnus and shock wave or some other bots, give prime and megaton a little time out, or let them be smaller toys that are like high command or some thing, not really in the show.
     

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