If FT dinobots are $150 and Apollyon is $135, I think MP seeker size constructicons should be around $120.

 

Well they are the nemeses of the dinobots. It would makes sense for them to be a little bigger, otherwise they'll look like bombshell being crushed under sever's foot. Devestator would end up being a huge beast with them that size. We'll see how it turns out.

 

No, I didn't. Those are arguable at best.

Maybe KFC, though... Maybe.  

 

You are taking into account early bird prices. $200 FT Dinos. Apollyon is $150. Apollyon is being done by a company that has very questionable QC and has likely has a fairly price point to attract buyers. FT has direct Giga competition.

A well done Construction crew will be more than $120/bot.

 

Whatever happened to blurr? How long till we get a kup !?

 

They'll both happen sooner or later, you know. We are talking third parties, here, after all.  

 

i don't think so. constructicons size (height) and complexity should be very similar to perceptor...FT's tesla is $109-$120 as a point of reference. constructicons were always slightly smaller than seekers which is where tesla's height seems to be.

 

Botfan, I think this is a great idea for a thread. I really enjoyed reading the posts so far, and disagree that there isn't anything to talk about here. If anything, I think what this does is allow us a place to talk about all of the general 3P speculation that goes on in other threads already, thereby keeping everything more on topic. Nice one.

I'd heard murmurs about Cyclonus and figured that was almost a given considering they're doing Scourge already, but didn't know about Wreck Gar. Didn't KFC announce that they were doing Junkions as well?

I'd like to see a 'toon accurate Blurr at some point, and would speculate that him, Kup and the rest of the '86 brigade are complete shoe-ins for a 3P to tackle soon (hopefully!).

I can't imagine many people that would disagree with you.

I pointed this out just the other day, but I think Tigerblade's custom Aerialbots show exactly how Superion scale should be handled:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/radicons-customs/1028055-project-masterpiece-superion-slingshot.html

It would amaze me if FT haven't thought about doing a combiner. Either way, it's just a matter of time until someone does.

Interesting. Let's see if they can actually release their Sunstreaker first.  

Great post. I agree with everything here. It is interesting how third parties are starting to go in stronger now, what with FT ramping up the reveals, Badcube having several projects announced already, and now several 3Ps all announcing season 1 Autobot characters, which previously most stayed away from. It does feel like the competition is really starting to intensify, and I suspect we will see more and more reveals to try and get people to place those pre-orders, particularly if the trend continues for companies all tackling the same characters.

If I were a 3P though, I'd definitely be going after the odd choices. I think Maketoys have done well to announce Chromedome, for example, as this is a whole area that no-one is tackling in 3P form just yet.

Interesting. I agree with your points, although I think more people would buy both FT & TT than would just buy FT over TT. Ultimately though, I think it would all come down to design, regardless of who made it. Just look at FT vs KFC Reflector - up until recently very few would have considered a KFC figure over an FT version of the same character, but now lots of people are going that way because they like the design. People are not that 'loyal', nor should they be, although I do understand the mindset that it's a little different when it's TT vs 3P.

I think this also fits this thread. I would guess that we will definitely get everything already revealed in prototype form this calendar year. Anything after that (such as Sludge) I think could go either way, at this stage.

Interesting point, and I agree. I was surprised at the reveal of 2 3P Hounds out of the blue. It's a bold move and signals that 3P is willing to go to places that previously would have been considered risky because of the chances that TT would also announce those characters.

Do you know, I hadn't even considered that 3P companies would start tackling Japanese characters. Interesting idea... I suppose as long as the demand is there, why not? I think Star Saber might just prompt this happening.

You don't like MMC? KFC did a good job with Transistor also.

Again, good thread. I will be here quite a bit.  

 

It's not that I don't "like" them - but their designs aren't quite what I'd consider to be "Masterpiece" at this time... They're close, but not quite G1-accurate enough.

Not that that doesn't make them their Predaking a "masterpiece" in its own right, using the term in a more general sense - but we are talking about figures that are supposed to "fit in" with the official Masterpiece line, are we not?

And I think that's where KFC's Transistor falters as well... It's nearly there, but man, that paint... it looks great, but a bit out of place with official MPs, no?

I'm not even sure Badcube fits the bill, even though I use them as such... Huff certainly fits in terms of aesthetics, but the quality isn't there. With Brawny and Backland, the quality is CERTAINLY there, but the aesthetics... eh. I use them with my MPs, so they're "good enough" for me, but I can admit that the proportions aren't QUITE right. That's how it's looking for their Warpath, too...

Honestly, the only ones who truly deserve the "3P Masterpiece" label are Fans Toys and Gigapower... XTransbots might get it if Apollyon isn't a floppy, QC-ridden P.O.S.  

 

Fair points about MMC. I thought your comment was more about them as a company, but I agree with you about their aesthetic. I own Feral Rex and think he's great, but don't consider him part of my MP collection. I'm interested to see how they get on with Mirage though.

As for KFC Transistor, I actually like the paint as is. I agree it's not exactly the same as regular MPs, but I also don't think it's as different in hand as people claim. Just my opinion though.  

I completely understand your points about which figures 'fit' or not. I think Huff was genuinely spot on when it came to the MP aesthetic. I remember at the time being amazed how well the designer did. Likewise, I think FT Soar comes about as close as you can. That said, I also think X-Transbots are looking pretty good in this respect. I do like Badcube's Brawny as well, though!  

 

I just can't shake this feeling that third parties are going to over-saturate the market with Masterpiece-styled figures. As Sixo said, some of the less-likely choices really needs to be the focus to avoid this. Also, instead of having 2-3 figures of the same character that are a bit more likely, a focus on characters that may never get the spotlight helps with all of this.

Instead, what I think we're going to keep seeing is some of these key gaps getting filled in quickly by third parties to try to beat TakaraTomy to the punch. Characters like Grapple and Inferno might benefit, but I'd think Astrotrain and Blitzwing would benefit a bit more. We've already discussed Trailbreaker just a bit. Rightfully so, as he's a bit overlooked anyways.

 

Yeah. In one way, it's going to be more difficult due to all the choices that are bound to pop up - a good example of this are the Dinobots.

On the other hand, it'll be easier to pass on something that isn't so great, knowing that the chances for something better are pretty good. For me at least, a good example of that are the Hounds that were revealed recently by Maketoys and TFC. Neither are quite up to what I'd consider "Masterpiece standards", but at this point, I feel pretty safe that a better one will come around eventually, and I can wait.

 

Personally, I don't mind if we get a lot of options on the 3P market for figures. It'll force the companies to try that much harder to get their figure to be the standard bearer for a character. I mentioned earlier, but I really hope this translates to them substituting TT in some cases as the figure of choice for a character. I agree that there will be some excesses, but so far it seems the market can handle it. It's actually surprising that Giga has come in and done as well as they have with FTs already so established as the dinobot choice. It shows that there's always room for variety, especially if you do good work. FTs doesn't seem to be have affected too badly by it.

I'm not sure the same can be said for Reflector's FT vs. KFC option. The KFC offering looks pretty good, but I really think this is a case where their reputation is weighing them down. I was all in for their blaster, since the design rocked, but I'm more cautious about their reflector with an excellent FT offering as an option. Again, to accommodate the excess and saturation companies are really going to have to get it together and not let obvious things, like QC, slack now that people are buying based on aesthetic choices.

What are the chances we might see some of that saturation start occurring for combiners? I could see a lot of companies jumping at the chance to release them, since they lock people in for 5 figures, but if everyone does it we'll have a lot of versions to choose from and there's bound to be some losers. The thought makes me excited, but it could hurt sales and reputations of some second choice companies, especially if they don't complete the sets.

 

I'm pretty keen to see what 3rd parties may do with MP combiners now that Hasbro have shown that it can basically be done with the reveal of CW devastator.
One thing Takara does is show what can be done and 3rd parties follow. Fans toys stepped up first and look where we are now!
Come on 3rd parties, let's get into these MP combiners! (I am looking at you Gigapower in particular for big bots  )

 

I forgot to note that I'm attempted to speak a little from a retailer persepective here, not as a collector. If there is too much product, retailers could be stuck with stock and lose money. If that's done on a larger scale, retailers will have to respond.

 

I actually think the Reflector situation is a really interesting situation, as I have read plenty of comments from people who were all in for the FT version, and are now instead opting for the KFC option despite the fact of KFC's reputation up until very recently. Even though FT generally have a much better reputation than KFC, it seems that what is winning out here (for a lot of people anyway) is their perception of the design, even though this is based on a few renders, and we haven't even seen either of the camera modes thus far. More interesting still is how KFC is managing to win fans away from FT in this way, even when I have read a lot of them saying that this will be their first ever KFC purchase, or the first time that they will skip an FT product. Now, clearly this is a case where design means more to people (at this stage) than perception of QC, although I wonder how this will pan out as more photos of both products are revealed, or indeed how it will end up once both figures are in hand.

Regarding combiners, I think it's an inevitability that a third party will take on an MP-level combiner at some point. The interesting thing here will be to see how many other third parties jump on the same bandwagon once it starts. I think all it will take will be one to start it off before the floodgates open.

 

The KFC reflector will show how much the market can handle at least two good options for one figure and still allow both companies to be successful. KFC really can't afford to screw it up and release a figure with bad QC in this case, since aesthetics are driving people's buying here. If maketoys or xtrans released a reflector, I'm not sure if the market would respond as favorably. There does have to be a tipping point for having too many options for one character and some companies will lose money if too many get in the game.

I personally have the FT version on preorder, but the KFC version looks so menacing that some excellent reviews could easily get me to switch. Having both available really speaks to how popular MPs are and how starved the market is. The MP collector's market is much bigger than we think, IMO, and the 3Ps are smart to utilize this time as much as possible.

For combiners, as long as the 3Ps follow CW devastator for scale, I think the 2 option rule could stand. They're a bit more risky, since a bad first release could taint every release after, so it's safer if too many companies weren't doing the same characters at once. Honestly, it's a really awesome time to be a G1 collector, since we'll have so many options to cater to each of our aesthetic preferences. No one will really lose in the fandom, except the companies that don't hit the mark  . QC, I think is really going to decide who wins and who goes, since there's enough fans to accommodate the aesthetic differences from several companies.

 

For combiners, I would not mind if the torso bots was close to MP Magnus height and the other limbs between carbots and seeker heights. That would mean a pretty good size combiner. As for Devastator, the limbs could all be seeker size.

 

Depends on what you're looking for, really!? For me it's slavishly Takara MP style so it's strictly FT  

This soooooo much this. I was tempted by the Warbo's technobots but in the light of this logic I'll be passing on them, they're a bit too classics looking for my liking and at the prices they're going for it kind of makes it not too hard to pass on them. I think they're popular enough characters that someone down the road will make more toon accurate versions of them.

I think this would look god awful when they're individual robots, in combined mode it would look fairly decent otherwise fugly! I personally would like to see a 5 set combiner group that the leader/torso scales with the team mates/limbs the way Prime scales with Ironhide and then have some high level wizadry/lazerbeak type engineering that would make the proportions of the combined mode look good.

I say this because in the cartoons they were roughly the same height. What you have proposed would take the Snow white and the Seven dwarves syndrome to astronomical levels, which would be a big no no for me!

 

Man, we can't be that far from MP combiner attempts. Honestly, apart from not combining, the success of the MP Dino offerings has shown that a several member team can be supported. Bruticus, Superion, Devastator, and Menasor all seem like viable options that would have enough mass appeal with Devs vs Bruticus being the big question. Devs because of how iconic he is and the whole s1 thing. Bruticus has the fact it would only be 5 figs going for it though

Combiners will offer some new questions though - people will want accurate combined modes and I'm not sure that can readily be achieved without partsforming. Especially if we're looking for good robot and alt modes. I look at TW's combiner as an example of this done right. Don't try to make them double as accessories/weapons - just make them augment the combiner the best they can. This will be divisive though.

I also think the glut of combiners to date will help with the design - there is a lot more to learn from out there now than 1-2 years ago, plus various templates for characters to refine. It would never happen, but a MP combiner giftset would be the bomb! No waiting for all parts - just bam - everything at once!