The Movie-verse as a whole

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by TheDemonDzko, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. TheDemonDzko

    TheDemonDzko °-{[●□●]}-° {Beep. Boop.)

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    The live action Transformers films seem to be the bane of most of the old-school Transformers fans, as well as the casual fans, due to it's own new perspective that hadn't really been seen in Transformers up until this point. This new perspective, was that of a more adult and teenage point of view, rather than it being the, "JUST FOR KIDS!" type of writing, that Animated, and Rescue Bots are essentially written for, the kids.

    Now, my opinion of the movie verse:

    "I hate the movie verse, it isn't what I enjoy about Transformers, and is a bastardized mess of various elements of film, that it doesn't know what exactly it wants to be, however. If the name Transformers wasn't slabbed onto it, it is almost a decent series."

    Now, most people when they watch the films make the mistake and think about it from the perspective of "The movie is called Transformers, thus it is about Transformers." which is only a part of what the movies are actually about, namely it's about Sam. It has always been about Sam, from the get go.

    The first movie, a movie about a highschool student getting his first car, and it happening to lead him into another life and transcend from his life in his Upper middle class life style, into that of an "adult". Are there robots? Yeah, but for these films they are just the sugar coating to the story they are trying to tell.

    The second movie also follows this pattern, that it is about Sam and thus gives proof that these movies focus -is- Sam, and not the Transformers and yes, considering all the other forms of fiction mainly being about... Y'know, Transformers, it is this strange change of pace to actually flesh out the human sidekick rather then having them be an annoying cheerleader, they actually have the Human be put in dangerous situations that we as humans can relate to. Thus, the story of Sam is that now that he has survived his first real-life challenge he gets to live out another one of lifes challenges, but his past keeps dragging him into a world he left behind.

    As for the third movie, it is made pretty clear the movie is about him at this point, considering he gets the most screen-time (not that he hadn't before...). And it gives off a great example of how "Why did I even go to college?" type situation, and it just reflects our economy at the time, in his struggle to get work, and how now that he is lost he has found that he wants to be with what he has been fighting all this time, only to be rejected for fighting his destiny and coming full circle and accepting it without desperation, or hesitation.

    Now, keeping in mind that the movies are about Sam, and not really so the Transforming robots it is probably easier to watch even if the writing for the characters isn't great, it still does tell a good story. The only thing I really have against the films aside from the designs, is the dulled sense of action, that tries its hardest to get the viewer excited but misses the point, due to the lack of a general dramatics. It just feels really... soulless. As in, it just feels very two-dimensional, more so than the G1 cartoon.

    However, even though that the character development is poor. The writing of the movie-verse is actually really nifty, and does give us a sense that the Tranformers are really... these ancient beings from another world, that have this fictional history that you could almost write an whole story based on the history of these Transformers, and have a decent story.

    Now... the negative aspects of the films, that are really quite evident.

    The designs, dear god... the designs. It's like someone took a blender, stuffed every incarnation of... everything ever set it to ice, then tried fitting some sort of human shape out of the remains, and called it a day.
    Though admittingly it must have taken some very hard work to get those designs down, it just frustrates the hell out of me, just looking at them, with all the moving parts and holes, it's nifty but it is really unnecessary, and sometimes even hurts my eyes.

    I'm not saying, that I want it to be G1, or anything else we have seen up to that point, but I feel that the "alien" feel is a bit lost on me. It doesn't feel alien, but more so... just a giant walking CGI mess. Is it good CGI? Yes, oh god yes. But, I think that if they would have dumbed down the CGI a tad they possibly could have afforded to make the Robots less of a bonus to the films, and more so a reoccurring thing, that is on the screen for more then five minutes.

    Ontop of my... detest for the designs, there seems to be a weird colour schema that has moved onto Tranformers: Prime even, in the "Lets colour coat the Transformers, Autobots will be Colourfull, and Decepticons will be Various shades of silver, and muted colours." Which, I sort of understand as a "Decepticons are uniform, and evil... and blalala", as well as since the Autobots being colorfull will make it sell better, however. As a viewer, it irritates me, just because ontop of the designs I don't really care for, now I focus less on the Decepticons, because in these films they just seem very, as I said "Uniform", and just... Well, I just can't tell the difference between them in the movies.

    As for the Acting. Shia, okay I can deal with... Is he the best? Nah, but he fills out his role just fine. The parents? Sure, I can dig it. Megan fox even... Is she a good actress? God no, bitch will never be doing Shakespeare. But, you get to the robots. Ugh... as I mentioned before, the overall soullessness just really is reflected in the voice-acting of the robots. I know I am probably going to get flamed to high hell for saying this, but: "Peter Cullen should -not- have been brought in for Optimus Prime." It's nifty that they used him for the movies, and it is a nice little fan nod however, he is just so... Old, that it just does not work for me. If he would have just been the narrarator for the film, that would be one thing, but... his voice just not sit well with me in the films, he just lacks quite a bit of emotion, that I feel in his younger days he could have emoted, but at that point he was just so out of practice, and then in DOTM reduced to grunts, which to me is a dissapointment. As for the rest of the cast, I feel Ratchet fits, Awkward Aussie Ironhide doesn't sit well, Muted Bumblebee is almost a parody so it works, Hugo and Frank Megatron I feel fit, Starscream started off terrible but ended well, and... well that doesn't leave much left, considering the rest usually speak in cybertronian. (Ignoring Skidz and Mudflap, but that is another story...)

    So, that is my thoughts, what are yours?
     
  2. ShOcKwAvE1213

    ShOcKwAvE1213 THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

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    That is a lot to read.......
     
  3. TheDemonDzko

    TheDemonDzko °-{[●□●]}-° {Beep. Boop.)

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    o_O ; If you are two? Sure?
     
  4. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    I don't think that is a supportable statement. I think each installment's increasing box office proves that the casual fans LOVE the movieverse. I think it also suggests that many of the longtime TF fans have been won over, among whom I count myself.

    I saw MTMtE part 1 the first day it aired all those years ago and have been a fan ever since. And I did not particularly enjoy the first Bay movie for a variety of reasons that have been completely beaten into the ground over the past 5 years.

    But the Bay movie series has won me over. The first is still my least favorite of the three, but I freaking loved the last one. I think the overall influence of the movies has been extremely positive, not only for the franchise's health, but in terms of the increasing sophistication of toy engineering that I believe is a direct result of trying to adapt those crazy designs to plastic, and in terms of improved design on following projects like TFP.

    To sum up: Movies, yay
     
  5. kaiserlisk

    kaiserlisk THIS PLEASES GAGA

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    Personally? My thoughts on the matter?


    Let me just say that find many of your arguments to be valid.

    Pretty much the only thing I disagree with is the designs of the Transformers. I feel that they are perfect. However, we can chalk that up to artistic opinion; I happen to like the busy-looking and bizarre designs over previous designs that many seem to prefer; I really think that busy designs like those are perfect for conveying the fact that they are an advanced alien race of mechanical organisms. There are other ways to express that, but I like this aesthetic better.

    I will profess to not having professional opinions regarding aspects such as writing and acting; I for one can admit to watching the movie for its visuals, not its story.


    Oh, I find some of the humor to be so atrociously out of place; I will admit to giggling at some of the potty humor, but it kind of offsets the serious tone action movies like these are supposed to convey.



    That being said, perhaps what I am most excited for are the upcoming movie toys. I find each and every one to be masterpieces in themselves.
     
  6. Ruthie

    Ruthie Well-Known Member

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    Hey, everyone! I just bought a box of gourmet cupcakes!!!
     
  7. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Your arguments are well-put [though I disagree with them], don't get me wrong, but the amount of threads devoted to pointing out flaws of the movieverse [be they jusified or not] is getting annoying, can't we do just like the Prime forum? And have some threads commenting on good things or ideas?

    Now back to post...

    Your first point, about Sam, I like to say Sam is one main lead, but not necessairly the main driving force of the movies, if you analyze the movies carefully [specially DOTM], you'll notice most of the developments in the movies only happen because of the robots, humanity either aides them in taking said steps [Sam, Lennox, Epps] or troubles those steps [Galloway, Simmons in the first, e.t.c].

    As I like to say:
    Who enters in the philosophical arguments with the villains? Transformers.
    Who kills the villains? Transformers.
    Who saves the day at the end? Transformers.
    Who are the owners of the MacGuffin? Transformers.
    Who is the main villain? Transformers.

    From a storyline [instead of screen-time] point of view, it's a story about giant robots being aided by a boy, they do most of the big things to move the plot, Sam just helps them.

    In fact, they basically are the plot.

    Now with this, I heavily disagree.
    The Movies explore an universe far more complex than G1 even tried to show, explaining why Cybertronian and earthly tech are inter-changeable, why they can speak English, why they turn into cars, in G1, those were massives Elephants in the room, a proof of how little dimension they bothered to give to the universe they live in.

    Same goes for the characters, in the first movie, Optimus was conflicted and saddened by the warfare, mournful for the loss of their planet, G1-Optimus barely [if ever] showed said traits.

    Same goes for DOTM, Optimus shows remorse for gunning down Sentinel and an overall conflict over his mentor now being his enemy, traits never seen in G1-Optimus [who, depiste never murdering anyone, actually never felt sad for his enemies].

    Even Megatron has shades of this, with him being shown as a dying old man, something of a tragic figure ["Cybertron...you are saved...at last"] while G1-Megs was a cartoon villain [fittingly enough].

    And I won't even MENTION Sentinel Prime's character here, an anti-villain [something entirely absent from the G1-Cartoon to begin with].

    The rest is too deep within the realms of "matter of opinion" to be argued [like Cullen's perfomance].
     
  8. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Uh, try watching the first episode.
     
  9. TheDemonDzko

    TheDemonDzko °-{[●□●]}-° {Beep. Boop.)

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    Well, to be fair, I tried not making this an overly negative thread. I assure you, if I wanted to bash these films. I would bash them.
     
  10. Leather Elbows

    Leather Elbows Dooper

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    G1 is worse then the movies when it comes to plot and writing
     
  11. OP84

    OP84 Well-Known Member

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    I actually like the Movie designs better than even hybrids like Prime. The designs in Prime are cool, but I don't think they look good enough to work on-screen. But I still wonder what "movie-fied" Prime designs would look like.
     
  12. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    All I'll say is that people need to stop automatically associating 'G1' with the Sunbow cartoon, and that people who justify the shallowness of the Movie-verse by pointing out that 'G1 was just as shallow' have invalid opinions.
     
  13. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Conversely, I think people also need to get past this weird belief that the G1 comics were so much more sophisticated or interesting. They were just as kiddie, and they were just as much toy commercials.

    People associate G1 with the Sunbow cartoon for a reason. It's the version that everyone saw and a greater number of people enjoyed.
     
  14. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Sorry Natcht, Sorry, I just instantly link the G1 franchise to the cartoon [I've read some G1 Comics and I love them], I apologize.

    They explained why they acquired earhtly alt-modes somewhere [the vulcanic eruption thing, I think], but not how they speak english, why the tech is interchangeable, e.t.c

    No it's not that, I like your thread, I respect the way you've put over your arguments and I think any person who dislikes the movies should follow suit with the thread: Calm, polite and intelligent argument. That's how it must be done, and you're doing it correctly.

    I was just mentioning that we've been having a lot of threads about the negative, I miss something talking about the qualities.
     
  15. TheDemonDzko

    TheDemonDzko °-{[●□●]}-° {Beep. Boop.)

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    I'm not a G1er by any means... but the comics tackled some pretty nifty shit, like... the whole Ratchet + Megatron comic arc.
     
  16. adamid4

    adamid4 Well-Known Member

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    My opinion is pretty much inverted, you could say the movies were about Sam, but they were equally about the Transformers. Sam was just a human to follow along side the story of the transformers, something to give it some familiarity and root it in the real world(I'm not saying its realistic by saying this). But a live action movie that just focuses on Transfomers I think would have just been too distant to make a successful movie. I cant think of hugely successful live action movie that doesn't have human characters.

    The first movie I thought was extremely well done, and got me interested in the franchise. I loved it. I thought the right calls were made as far as designs, characters, voices, story, colors, and vehicles. I think it stands high above the others 2 movies.

    Second ignores its own story, and contrary to a lot of whining about how it doesn't have one or is riddled with plot holes, I don't think it really suffers from those things.
    A machine that can destroy the sun just should have made for a much grander story then a needle at the top of a pyramid that gets shot off in 2 seconds. I wish the Fallen would have levitated ALL the stones off of the pyramid, enhancing how dangerous he was while giving a more story related spectacle.

    The third, just bugged me with little things that they got right in the two previous movies but screwed up in the 3rd one. Decepticons not being pretty formidable combat foes(movie 1 shined here), no reaction to Ironhides death(Jazz), Megatron shouting out orders then randomly deciding to sulk in an alley(very out of character and not explained very well), and the one second later all autobots are captured with no explanation(imagine movie 1 and sector seven is never shown actually capturing bumblebee). Another thing that bugged me is they went from using a mystical transformers plot to one that involved humans rebuilding a planet X times bigger than earth. When its a transformers Macguffin suspension of disbelief is easier then a story where what the human race in capable is somewhat familiar.

    But at the end of things I loved all three.:D 
     
  17. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    You don't really need to apologize when the vast majority of fans do the same and when it's unspokenly understood that's what someone is talking about. It's only really when someone is talking about the comics that they have to specify. Otherwise, the default understanding is the cartoon.

    They were all rebuilt and uploaded with Earth information by Teletraan One. It's pretty clear.


    Ratchet really got his due in the comics. So did Shockwave. Those two are undeniable. And so did a few later characters who never appeared in the cartoon. But that's IT. Beyond those few things, the comic often felt lifeless and without personality compared to the cartoon.
     
  18. OP84

    OP84 Well-Known Member

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    Well then, I guess Sentinel is a ******.
     
  19. TheDemonDzko

    TheDemonDzko °-{[●□●]}-° {Beep. Boop.)

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    Well, perhaps you need to give the comics another reading. Yes, the art is terrible... but god those stories, they really give a hint of how desperate they are to win this war... so desperate... that they build carwashes of doom. D=
     
  20. Minh'T

    Minh'T Descendant of Primus

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    Agree :thumb 
     

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