The Matrix

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by OOSnake, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. OOSnake

    OOSnake Well-Known Member

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    What are your thoughts on The Matrix of Leadership? Frankly, I'm sick of it. In G1 it was just a plot device introduced so they could defeat Unicron. Since then, it's been in most of the series. Why is it even there? Surely you can be the leader of the Autobots without the Matrix?
    I just think it's an over used gimmick.
     
  2. Honorbound

    Honorbound The Reclusive Semi-Lurker

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    Same here. I'm also tired of it being like a king's crown, giving based on divine right. If I had it, I would rather have it be just the storehouse of previous Primes' memories (and a copy of their personalities, like Avatar), and have it be a religious artifact as opposed to the TF equivalent of a crown.

    Seriously, is a representative republic that hard to pull off in Transformers?
     
  3. OOSnake

    OOSnake Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! I'd be interested in the Matrix being some sort of last resort weapon, to be used only in the gravest circumstances, and I'm not talking about Unicron. He's so overused, just like the Matrix.
     
  4. UltraMagnus3786

    UltraMagnus3786 That's what it is

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    I generally like the Matrix. I thought the concept worked well in G1 (both the movie, FFoD, and Return of Optimus) as well as some of the later iterations. What I'm not a big fan of is how varied the creation story of Prime is now. Did he stumble upon the Matrix deep in Cybertron? Was it given to him by the Autobot elders? Was it passed on by A3? Part of this ties into how Orion/Optimus/Optronix became Optimus Prime. IDW, the novels, TF Prime, the video game, and the live action movies all have different approaches as to how Prime got the Matrix, what it is, what it does, and what it represents. Unfortunately, this explosion of different mythos all occurred in the past 3 years. It'd be good to have 1 unified story.

    But the Matrix itself, I have no problems with it.
     
  5. tusko

    tusko Well-Known Member

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    I liked the concept of a "creation Matrix" in Marvel comics... a place where baby TFs come from. Who controls this, controls the fate of the TF race.

    I hate the Matrix as a McGuffin. I hate that it "upgrades" the barer now. Optimus Prime is awesome without the Matrix.... he has it because he is awesome. I'd like less fantasy and more sci-fi in my fiction.
     
  6. Rexidus

    Rexidus Autobot TFW2005 Supporter

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    I love the matrix and all the mytholgy built around it.
     
  7. Stardust262

    Stardust262 Moe is the Only Way

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    I have no issue with the Matrix
     
  8. Snake_eyes1975

    Snake_eyes1975 Peace through Tyranny!!

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    Cool point. Although I loved how hot rod became Rodimus and "upgraded" the same thing never happened to Optimus. Less fantasy more sci to...I can agree to that.

    yea..I don't really have any problems with all the incarnations of mythology around it. Each story teller has a different take, I get that.

    One thing that never made much sense to me, I grew up reading the marvel comics as PURE CANON, like G.I.JOE I only took the toon for face value. I LOVED the matrix in marvel. It was the 1st incarnation, and it was done pretty cool. Then I watched the toon movie and the matrix was a super weapon, and it really did nothing cool except blow up the bad guy.

    I loved how the marvel books did it.
     
  9. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    I like it, but I am in favor of it being restricted to being passed from Prime to Prime as a repository of wisdom and experience in much the same way the previous lives of the Avatar are available to the current one.

    I would telling filthy lies however, if I said I wasn't impressed with it killing Unicron AND curing the Hate Plague by sharing the wisdom of the Primes; didn't make a lick of sense but it was a nice sort of sentiment 'To fight hatred, use wisdom'. As magical McGuffin's go, two uses on two pretty big fucking problems is very sparse use.

    So yeah, less Excalibur and more portable think tank.
     
  10. tusko

    tusko Well-Known Member

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    Well this leads to another thing coming from the IDW comics... the wisdom of the Primes! The past Primes: Nova, Sentinel etc..... were not nice. I don't see what wisdom their selfishness added to the Matrix.
    Vector Sigma, Matrix, All Spark, Underbase and Oracle.... these all need to be refined in my opinion. They are the easy out McGuffin. Give them all a good purpose and the fiction will be much better for it.
     
  11. Yggdrasil

    Yggdrasil Banned

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    I honestly think that is should be like a ceremonial decoration and nothing more than that.

    So no wisdom of the Primes, no Unicron killing, no superpowers no nothing.

    It's like if a crown gave king the ability to turn into the Hulk while also giving him the knowlege of everything. I simply don't like that.

    I wouldn't mind it being like a "spiritual connection" to the other Primes like the aformentioned previous lives of the Avatar but since this is Transforemers and the writers don't have the matury or subtlety that would be used to shit and back and every episode would probably be resolved with "An ancient Prime told me what to do".

    So yeah for me it should be a crown that indicates that said person is a Prime, and if the writers are capable of not overusing it then I wouldn't mind it being a connection to the previous Primes.
     
  12. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    This is probably where I'm at.

    Always been more a Creation Matrix guy than a Matrix of Leadership guy.

    Although the Creation Matrix could be likened to a mini version of Vector Sigma (or Vector Sigma likened to a mini version of the Creation Matrix since the Creation Matrix was first). Shove a pair of handles on a shrunken Vector Signma and you kinda have your Creation Matrix in an easy-to-carry form. Although having it downloaded into your brain is a pretty easy carry method as well.
     
  13. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    It's kind of got different uses throughout the TRANSFORMERS saga (as seen here at Matrix of Leadership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Matrix of Leadership): - Transformers Wiki

    Creation Matrix (G1 comics) - this was when it was considered a well of energy used to grant life to Autobots.

    Matrix of Leadership (G1 cartoon) - a talisman that can only be held by those worthy of being a Prime, and has the power to defeat Unicron.

    The Transformer afterlife (BW) - the realm from which all Transformers are born, and where they return to when they end their life.

    Energon Matrix (BW Japan) - Every Prime has one! (Energon Matrix - Transformers Wiki)

    Solar Harvester key (ROTF) - a talisman held by the original Dynasty of Primes, used to start up a sun-harvesting tower, which is later filled with the power of the Primes to revive a member of their own.

    It's had many different uses over the years. But perhaps it has been used too many times. We need some new McGuffins, which I am glad to see TF-PRIME is bringing up (the Forge, Vector Sigma, etc).
     
  14. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Vector Sigma is hardly a new McGuffin. Heck I just mentioned it in the post previous to yours.
    But is TF Prime really bringing in new McGuffins? Most of the time the TFP McGuffins just seem to be a device that gives the user a specific special power, and often not a particularly exciting and original one either. TF's had those special powers built-in in the original TF cartoon. All TFP has really done is kinda reintroduce TF powers, but separate from the TF's bodies.

    The problem with the Matrix is the limits of it have never been pinned down. It's almost fluid in what it can do so a new McGuffin to replace it isn't really likely to happen, or at least become as established as the Matrix has been, because whatever you need the Matrix can already be written to do it. The most we can ever probably get is something that can do similar stuff to the Matrix but isn't the Matrix. Like Vector Sigma.

    The Matrix is the Ultimate McGuffin because it can do pretty much whatever a story needs it to. Anything trying to be the new Ultimate McGuffin is just going to essentially be another Matrix or a lesser McGuffin. And why do we need another Matrix when we already have one?

    Excuse my poor memory but The Forge is that hammer thing yes? The one where you hit stuff and it becomes new stuff? Kinda like a sort of Matrix really with the reformatting and/or creating/repairing.

    I suppose the question should really be that as long as the Matrix exists in TF as the Ulitmate McGuffin is there really ever any possibility a new McGuffin can supercede it without being just another Matrix?
     
  15. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    Being nice is not a requirement of being wise. Like a lot of things, wisdom is contextual and something that would be wise in one situation or from one point of view might well be disastrously stupid from another point of view or other situation. Plus, you cannot make an informed decision without ALL the information, even if that information makes you uncomfortable.

    Well, the All Spark and Vector Sigma are kind of the same thing but with different applications and canon. Both grant life to Cybertronians, but Vector Sigma usually gives them sapience on top of life, instead of the Allspark which just seems to give barely sentient life without some kind of extra guidance.

    As far as I know, the Underbase was a great repository of knowledge with some funky powers. Not just the Prime's knowledge, but all knowledge.....that's why my HomeServer is called Underbase :p 

    The Oracle is a new one though, can't say I've come across it before.
     
  16. The F.N.G.

    The F.N.G. Well-Known Member

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    Likely referring to the Oracle from Beast Machines.
     
  17. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    What about the Comics Underbase and the Movie Allspark? Didn't those work out all right, or were they "Matrix clones" too?
     
  18. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    What are the defining effects of the Underbase and the Allspark? Now ask yourself if the Matrix has ever done those things too.

    The Underbase was a repository of knowledge and also changed Starscream's body, making him bigger and more powerful. And then later overloading him and blowing him up

    The Allspark was a powerful Cybertronian artifact that could give Transformers (and various machinery) life. And in the case of Megatron, take it too, kinda like how the Matrix destroyed 1986 movie Unicron.

    And don't forget the Allspark was originally going to be called the Matrix before it was assumed the general audience was too dumb to understand it wasn't a reference somehow to the Keanu Reeves movies.

    While I'm not saying there should never be other McGuffins, none of them will ever be as powerful, adaptable or as well-remembered as the Matrix. They can create other powerful items but in the end they're all somewhat pale versions of what the Matrix can do anyway. Anything new is going to be just another version of something the Matrix can/could do. Variety of McGuffin is nice for a change, but in the end it's still kinda Matrix-lite. Basically the 'Simpsons' (Matrix) did it first. Or could do it if it wanted to.

    It's not just the big things either. Look at how the shell of the (presumably still empty) Matrix was used to activate Vector Sigma in The Rebirth. Got a problem? Got a Matrix? Problem solved. They sucked the Plasma energy into Vector Sigma, but if there hadn't been a Vector Sigma it's likely they would've had the Plasma energy sucked into the Matrix instead, maybe filling it with 'mystical' power again somehow (a jumpstart?). Even if it was to then just open the Matrix and release it to create the new Golden Age of Cybertron.
     
  19. tusko

    tusko Well-Known Member

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    I like IDW now for emptying the matrix.... giving the shell bits to the two current leaders is a cool move. I wish Optimus wasn't going by Orion again.... but oh well.
     
  20. Grimlock22

    Grimlock22 Some sort of artist

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    the next sries need someone who dosn't barre the matrix cough* leio convoy* cough

    now i got the thoch playing in my head :lol 
     

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