the matrix of conquest

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by littlebotbrat, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. littlebotbrat

    littlebotbrat Well-Known Member

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    Why hasn't there been any episodes other than the five faces of darkness after the old movie? Of course, it might be like Sauron's ring of dominance but still it would be interesting to find out it wasn't just a myth.
     
  2. TJOmega

    TJOmega The Plastic Addict Content Contributor

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    The Matrix itself I think is too iconic to have more than one floating around, it's inherently an icon of the Autobots and being unique makes it all the more special and important.

    In a sense we did get a Decepticon Matrix with Universe Nemesis Prime, though it was called the Dead Matrix.
     
  3. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    I know everyone usually likes to bag on Raksha for being the crazy Decepticon supporter, but in this instance I think she got it right. I'd paraphrase, but I'm too lazy even for that. Copy and paste!


    Raksha's Rantings ... from Issue #4, Summer 1993

    MATRIX QUEST

    What makes Autobots think they're so hot, anyway? Ask an Autobot, and he's likely to regurgitate a whole list of patented egotisms, swollen platitudes, and high-blown moral cliches, with which he has been thoroughly brainwa-- I mean, *indoctrinated*, from the very first moment of his creation. They're all good at this -- from that champion of self-righteousness himself, Obnox-- I mean, *Optimus* Prime, to the lowliest of their Micromasters. And if you,
    as a Decepticon, haven't died of boredom by the end of such a diatribe (or done the logical thing and blown the offending mechanism away), our hypothetical Autobot might complete his answer by saying, "And besides, *we* have the Matrix."

    To which any self-respecting Decepticon's reply ought to be: "*So?*"

    What is the Matrix, anyway? Let's take a closer look. In the comic it was referred to as the Creation Matrix -- falsely promoted for a while as the only source of new Transformer consciousness. In the Movie and t.v. series it was called the Matrix of Leadership, a
    description that makes somewhat more sense. In both versions it was a power source, a supplier of healing energy, and -- especially in the t.v. universe -- a repository for the knowledge, wisdom, essence -- *consciousness*? -- of Autobot leaders down through the ages. This "holy grail" was then passed down from leader to leader, so that each new Autobot commander would have access to his predecessors' experience. (Hasn't done them all that much good, to date, has it?)

    Decepticon leaders, on the other hand, have been much more self-reliant. A Quintesson in The Five Faces of Darkness once brought up the concept of a Decepticon Matrix, and said of Galvatron, "77.9% probability he doubts the existence of the Matrix." And with good
    reason. There *is* no Matrix for a Decepticon leader to run back to for advice, no protective aura to crawl into when things look bleak, no crutch to lean on when the going gets difficult. Decepticon leaders have always had to have the courage and strength of character to make
    their own way in the Universe, without the benefit of being coddled by their ancestors. It has made them willing to take chances, able to reach for grander dreams, and above all, to use their *own* creativity. I would contend that this is true not just of Decepticon leaders, but of
    Decepticons as a species.

    The Matrix is, indeed, Autobot domain. To those Decepticons who think they should have equal access to it, or even that there should be a corresponding Decepticon version of this exalted artifact, I would say: not necessary. Not even *desirable*. A reliance on some mystic source of power and wisdom only serves to dull one's own senses. Any striving to control or possess the Matrix, would ultimately weaken the Decepticon strength of character. (Someone
    should sit Thunderwing down and have a long talk with him. Any volunteers?)

    Trust your own abilities.

    Watch the shadows.

    --Raksha the Plumed Serpent
     
  4. TJOmega

    TJOmega The Plastic Addict Content Contributor

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    She gets bagged because she's just plain crazy... but she has it dead on there. Someone posed the question a while back, what would a room full of Megatrons say? G1, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Armada, movie, etc... and a point was made, they would argue, they all have different means and are sure that they are the only correct one. A room full of Optimus Primes are a dozen red and blue robots agreeing with each other.
     
  5. SureShot90

    SureShot90 Peace=superior firepower

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    I still see the Matrix of Leadership as a seperate "identity" from the other "socalled matrixes".
     
  6. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    Well Shockaract had one.
     
  7. Sunstorm9119

    Sunstorm9119 RC 1136

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    I can understand why Galvatron doubts the existance of a Decepticon matrix. IIRC, Megatron CREATED the Decepticons, was the first leader of them, and he BECAME Galvatron. So if there was such a thing as a 'con matrix, I think he'd know of it.
     
  8. TJOmega

    TJOmega The Plastic Addict Content Contributor

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    The Matrix originated in the cartoon series though, and there the Decepticons were born at the same time as Autobots, when they were separate production lines from the Quintessons. There Megatron was it's most powerful leader, but far from their original or the founder of the Decepticons.
     
  9. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Depends on your continuity, though. In most continuities, there were military / gladiatorial groups & outlaws who merely came together under Megatron's leadership. There was a proto-Decepticon faction around before Megatron rose up.

    Also, Galvatron was insane. His Megatron memory was either damaged or gone completely. He probably plain forgot it was all a lie.

    That said, there's a few things I like to apply to the concept of the Matrix:

    1) it is power, neither good nor evil but shaped by the one who holds it.
    2) it will only work for one it deems "worthy" (such as why Scourge, formerly Skywarp, may have been able to use it, but his Unicronian nature rejected it and caused him to mutate dangerously)
    3) the Matrix has a low-level of sentience, enough to determine who the most suitable host to carry out its overriding function is and get into their hands. In the context of TFTM, you could say it influenced Galvatron to challenge Unicron with it, knowing that this would enable Hot Rod to recover it.

    As far as more than one Matrix goes, I have a small theory I'm using in a fanfic idea one of these days:

    "At first there was but one Matrix; a force of creation without equal. It could rewrite the fundamental fabric of space and time to suit its bearer's desires. Fearing its power, Prima, the first of my line, divided it into three. Our line retained the Matrix of Leadership and the wisdom it imparted. The Matrix of Conquest was granted to Prima's friend and confidante, he who is now known as the Liege Maximo. The third was lost long ago, along with the one who bore it..."

    So essentially, you have one true Matrix, but it was divided up in the time of the ancients. Also, there's no concept of either one belonging to either side. The Matrix merely goes to the ones who are compatible.
     
  10. nightboomfer

    nightboomfer SeƱor Member

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    Hokey religions and ancient tech are no match for a good Targetmaster at your side.

    -'Con Solo
     
  11. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    I have always adhered to the notion that the sole distinction between Decepticons and Autobots is a political one. Over the "vorns", the arms race may have granted one faction technological advantages and distinctions over the other, but they are at core Cybertronians all, and not representative of separate races.

    Nor are they even all that culturally distinct. The Decepticon creed came from rejecting the status quo represented by the Autobots... in this sense, they are the revolutionaries. I would think that the mythology of one faction is the mythology of the other... discounting elements that may have been "rewritten" since the schism of the great war to suit the politics of one faction or the other.

    Naturally, this rejects the "Quintesson" origin claim (which I never liked), but there is some precedent to suggest that Autobots and Decepticons are not "made", but rather at a certain point, choose sides. Look at Jetfire, and in some continuities, Grimlock. I also enjoy the idea that there can be "good" decepticons and "bad" autobots. Bots like Sunstreaker, Slag, Snarl, and Repugnus for example would support this.

    In this sense, I guess I echo the Armada view of the Matrix. The bearer is not just the leader/spiritual base of the Autobots, but the of "all" Transformers. The fact that the Decepticons reject this notion is part of their own politic of self-reliance.

    However, it does raise interesting questions... such as would it be possible for a Decepticon to become the "bearer" of the Matrix... not just to possess it, but to be "chosen" by it? Perhaps due to a time of crisis, a great need, the qualities required in a figurehead for Cybertron are found in a Decepticon rather than an Autobot.

    I think that would be a sweet story idea!

    As for a Decepticon Matrix, I think the only way for one to exist would be if after the war began, a Decepticon made one... perhaps as much for the sake of propaganda as for the balance of power.

    Nemesis Prime's "Dead Matrix" suggests a totally different option... a weapon, a foul mockery of life, constructed by Unicron to counter the Matrix made by Primus. Unicron and Nemeisis Prime are not enemies of the Autobots, but of all life... Cybertronian or otherwise. They represent their own faction, I would think.

    zmog
     
  12. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Reformed Geewunner

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    I've always thought the idea of a Decepticon matrix would be an interesting concept.
     
  13. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    I prefer "Handroid", but that's a good motto for the SWTF Han.
     
  14. littlebotbrat

    littlebotbrat Well-Known Member

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    I am not too sure this is matrix of conquest is a good thing especially if an evil decepticon or predacon gets it or worst, a maximal like Rattrap.He would make everyone his slave and force robots to due his biddings. He make the other maximals and the predacons kiss his feet,etc.
     
  15. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Well of course its not a good thing, at least, for everyone BESIDES the person holding it. At best, its a weapon of catastrophic potential, at worst, its a soul-corrupting force of pure, sentient evil. Neither is great to have around. I don't think Rattrap would end up as some kind of Rattrapicron though. He talks tough, but deep down, he's got a good heart, and he's smart enough to know the potential consequences of his actions. That's why he gave up his robot body in beast machines after making a deal with Megatron. He understood the cost was too high to his friends and his fellow cybertronians.


    Now, wasn't there a decepticon matrix of destruction in one of the Japanese cartoons? Possibly beast wars neo? Of course, wasn't there also like three autobot matrixes in the japanese series (serieses? I dunno), that could make primes fire giant laser beams out of them?
     
  16. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    The Japanese shows are complicated, in fact I'm not even sure I fully grasp the finer points.

    Basically, all the Convoys of the Japanese Beast Era had a Matrix. All of them. It was a token of Leadership, probably in fact pieces of the one true Matrix. Never seen enough to understand fully.

    You also had the "Cybertron Zodiac" a Matrix-like artifact that the Nine Great Destron Generals were willing to die obtaining. This relic was also what brought Convoy back as Star Convoy. I've seen Zone but I'm not sure what its powers are compared to the Matrix. I think they said it held the power to create a universe, or something.

    Not sure about an actual Decepticon Matrix in Japan, though. I've never heard of one, but the sheer wealth of material in the Japanese continuity means that I might well be overlooking it.
     
  17. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

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    Nope.

    BWII: Lio Convoy (That's LIO not Leo) had a Matrix of Leadership, which he used on several occasions with others; Convoy as a dual harmonic function to become Flash Lio Convoy (and Convoy to become Burning Convoy), and later to merge with Lio Convoy Junior to become the Green Warrior of Destiny.

    In one episode, Black Lio Convoy was created as a dark duplicate from a crystal, who did have in a way a Matrix of Conquest, but it was never mentioned or made a point in the story as I recall.

    BWNeo: Big Convoy was used by his Matrix of Leadership to convey messages from Vector Sigma to the Crew, and to himself. He later used it to combine/power up with his cannon to form the Matrix Buster to take on Unicron. In the comics however, Big Convoy was actually a real Wooly Mammoth, animated by Unicron, and made to forget that he wasn't a real Transformer. He and Magmatron were both constructs of Unicron, and were to be his pawns. Magmatron rebelled and was destroyed, Big Convoy took up Magmatrons sword, and with his own weapons, managed to kill Unicron at the cost of his own life; becoming again a Wooly Mammoth and nothing more.

    In the comics, Black Big Convoy was not a "Nemesis" version of the character, but rather the Champion of Vector Sigma, able to take out an entire army of Unicrons Blendtron warriors singlehandedly. (By contrast, Big Convoy lost to three of Unicrons Blendtrons in a one on three fight) Black Big Convoy was subsequently never seen again. He was created rather last minute as a creation of Vector Sigma based on Big Convoys "blueprints" so to say.
     

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