The Great Continuity Debate! (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Transformers Video Game Discussion' started by Starscream Gaga, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    OK, so many, many threads have gone off-topic (sometimes due to me, sorry) because of the clashing opinons on where these games place in the Transformers Multiverse. So I thought the best thing to do would be to make a thread dedicated to debating your thoughts and opinions on where WFC and FOC should be put into continuity.

    OK, so I'll talk about some various support and contradictions between Prime and G1 towards FOC. I personally am of the opinion that WFC/FOC is in the G1 continuity.
    Here's some common fors and against and explanations:

    G1 Sunbow Cartoon:

    For:
    -Matt Tieger and various other staff members have stated that FOC is designed to lead into G1, although some leniency is given for the sake of keeping it modern, accessible, memorable, interesting and fun. Before Hasbro came up with the idea of an Aligned Continuity, WFC was only ever called a G1 prequel, in every interview and promotion. The debate only began once Hasbro announced the idea of an Aligned Continuity.
    -Character aesthetics and personalities are lifted directly from G1.
    -The final chapter of FOC is clearly a retelling of the first part of MTME Part 1.
    -The designers have gone to extensive means to make various references to G1 continuity and legend, far too many to post at once.
    -The G1 cartoon itself is lenient with continuity to fit what story they want to tell. HMS is attempting to straighten out the various plot-holes in order to show everyone how life on Cybertron was before G1, without worrying about minor contradictions.
    -A lot of effort was made to line the game up with facts of G1: For example Soundwave has his minicons and even his Cybertronian lamp-post alt-mode

    Against and rebuttals:
    -The Aerialbots and Jetfire are present. The Aerialbots are their for gameplay reasons. The games needed Autobot jets for flying missions and the Aerialbots are the most memoriable Autobot jets. Characters like Broadside would have been out of place.
    Fire in the Sky is quickly retold in the first chapter of WFC: Jetfire was once a companion to Starscream but did not agree with the Decepticon ways, so joined the Autobots. This allowed them to retcon the episode into occuring on Cybertron so they could keep Jetfire as a playable character as he is the most memorable flying Autobot.
    -The Stunticons are in it. Same as the Aerialbots. The game called for small Decepticon cars and the Stunticons were the most memorable characters to have them. Is anyone complaining? Breakdown's little paranoid self is one of the best parts of WFC.
    -The Dinobots are in it. As of now, the Dinobots in FOC are not nessecarily the exact same Dinobots as on Earth. Sludge is in statis-lock, Grimlock may have been killed in the explosion and Swoop, Snarl and Slag were not on the Ark.
    -Trypticon is the Nemesis. Not nessecarily a contradiction. Trypticon in WFC was a dinosaur that's alt-mode was an orbital cannon. In FOC, Trypticon is in statis-lock and permanently reformatted into the Nemesis. In G1, Trypticon starts appearing in Season 3. All that is said is that he was built, it may either be a different Trypticon, possibly built via inspiration of the old Trypticon or is the same Trypticon. In Season 3, the Nemesis has disappeared, it is possible that it was reformatted back into the citybot we're familiar with.
    -Megatron rose to power in the gladiator pits. I'm not sure why this is used as evidence. Nowhere in G1 is evidence given that would contradict this.
    -Orion Pax was a librarian. True, this is probably the most noticable retcon as he was a construction worker in G1. It should be noted however that by WFC, he is Optimus, a battle-hardened leader, he has already been rebuilt from Orion.
    -Matrix of Leadership was given to Optimus by the core/Primus, not Alpha Trion. Another retcon. Probably to give more backstory into what being a true Prime is. The Council heavily implies that previous Prime's have been corrupt. This is noticeable in Zeta Prime, as he is clearly power-hungry if you pay attention to his mannerisms throughout the Decepticon campaign.
    -Dark Energon. Again, not a contradiction. G1 never really explained exactly why Cybertron has no Energon and WFC just gave a reason for it. By FOC Dark Energon is irrelevant to the Decepticon and Autobot's actions.
    -Bruticus is in it. Gameplay/Selling reasons, Bruticus and the Dinobots were heavily advertised. Also, Bruticus like the Dinobots do not make it to Earth, Jetfire and Jazz knock him back to Cybertron. Starscream also arrested them and we don't know how Cybertronian justice works. Personality cores may be copied upon incarceration and the Bruticus may have been killed when knocked off the Ark, making it a different Bruticus with the same personality.

    The biggest retcons made are:
    "Fire in the Sky"s major plot-points now took place on Cybertron
    "War Dawn" has been retconned
    The origin's in "Five Faces of Darkness" are mostly ignored

    Prime

    For:
    -Hasbro said so. After WFC was well into development, Hasbro came up with the Aligned Continuity and slapped WFC into it, specifically claiming it was a Prequel to Prime, contradicting the developers opinions.
    -Trypticon is the Nemesis. This is often said but it is not actually true. In Prime, it was never implied that the sentience in "Flying Minds" was because it is actually Trypticon who was woken up. Megatron was surprised at the idea of the computer having AI and the episode just treated it as a computer trying to fufill the mission it had been given prior to getting sentience.
    -Cliffjumper has a Prime-inspired face. His personality, however, is not similar at all.

    Against:
    -Dark Energon. Dark Energon in WFC/FOC is completely different to Dark Energon in Prime. In WFC/FOC, it is a manufactured by the Seekers in their space station and was once used by the Ancients. It is an artifical substance that corrupts and destroys. Megatron and the rest of the Decepticons have various experience with it and every Transformer is aware of its existance. It was important towards the end of the war and the reason Cybertron had to reboot and lose its Energon. In Prime, it is a substance thought to be a legend that is Unicron's blood. It is found, not manufactured and brings the dead to life as zombies. Everyone but Megatron was surprised to discover that it wasn't mere legend.
    -Megatron and Optimus' origins. In Prime, Orion and Megatronus were allies right up until the point where Orion Pax was named Prime "then dubbed Optimus Prime" and Megatronus deserted him and started the war. This is completely contradictory to the story WFC/FOC tells, in which the war is in its final moments when Optimus becomes Prime. Megatron was well and truly the leader of the opposition in a brutal war and if they ever were allies, it was a long time before the war started.
    -Soundwave has his minicons and can talk. Breakdown is a paranoid little car, not a huge hulking truck with a strong personality.
    -A huge amount of characters are missing. Of the Decepticon lineup, most are new characters (Knockout, Prime Breakdown, Airachnid, etc.), while for the Autobots, Arcee (who does not resemble her WFC self) and Bulkhead are new characters.
    -There are very little similarities in aesthetics or personalities. The games themselves also have no references to Prime except for the similarly looking Nemesis ships.

    I'm sure there are a lot more fors and against for each side but that all I can think of, but I also should mention this:

    Exodus and WFC/FOC are not the same story
    It is repeatedly (infuriatingly) stated that Exodus is the same story as WFC. It is not. When Alex Irvine is not too busy attempting to write as many plot-holes as humanly possible within one novel, he is writing his own story. A confusing mess, it has G1 elements, Prime elements and Movie elements. It works better as a prequel to Prime then WFC/FOC, but it is so badly written that it is impossible to really argue that it is the prequel to anything.

    Another argument is that WFC/FOC is not a prequel to Prime and that the Aligned Continuity to similar to the G1 (That holds the cartoon, Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW, etc). This would make sense if it was true, however Hasbro has never said that is what the Aligned Continuity is and it seems to work against their idea of eliminating a Multiverse.

    OK! Everyone, post your own opinions, rebuttals fors and against(s?) and lets have fun debating!
     
  2. SuperSeeker

    SuperSeeker City Commander

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    A great read and well stated points. My basic Outlook has always been:

    Sunbow G1, Marvel G1, IDW G1, WFC/FOC, Beast Wars
    Animated sort of in between
    Movieverse, Exodus/Exiles, Prime

    There are loose connections between all of these groups but they seem to fit better within their own continuities. I don't know enough about Armada, Energon, or Beast Machines to place them anywhere. Why Hasbro wants everything in one massive pile is beyond me. Leaving every version to their own continuities lends them the opportunity to keep future Transformers installments fresh and original instead of retellings of the same old stories within the "official history". Don't fix what isn't broken basically
     
  3. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    I do have to ask this: What exactly IS the point of this cluster-f called "aligned continuity"? Who exactly is it there for?

    Since TF's are for kids and kids only, how can this so-called "Aligned" Continuity appeal to them? And looking at the toys on the shelf, where IS this Continuity?

    Or is this continuity for... the fans? The fans that don't matter? The fans that don't number enough to put a dent in sales if they quit buying because they are so vastly outnumbered by all the Timmy's and Tommy's who get a toy for good grades an mowing a lawn?

    Where do you see FoC in any of the PRIME toys?
    Where do you see PRIME in any of the FoC toys?
    For that matter, where do you see WfC / FoC in the PRIME cartoon? Or the PRIME prequel comic?

    It seems to me that only the fans who make serious effort in this franchise are the ones who can appreciate any notion that these media are somehow connected- and they are the ones who don't matter. So much effort for so few. Maybe that why this continuity started off so half-assed.
     
  4. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    True the whole thing makes very little sense. Assumedly it is to sell more toys, so that people who wouldn't normally collect WFC toys now buy them because they collect Prime and vice-versa.
    But it's true, only adult fans would even know the Aligned continuity to begin with: kids don't care about continuity! But then, Hasbro repeatedly states that collectors aren't a major issue to them and they rarely put them as a priority. Its just so... weird.
     
  5. BooyakaDragon

    BooyakaDragon I Don't Even Know

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    My reaction to these debates
    [​IMG]

    Who gives a flying prime about what continuity TFP is in?
     
  6. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    We're all Transformer fans and some of us like debating about this sort of stuff. I know the dense history Transformers Multiverse has is what makes me love it so much and keep interest in it. Just because you don't appreciate some aspects doesn't mean others can't.
     
  7. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    People who start calling Megatron's ship Trypticon seem to.
     
  8. Prime Jetscream

    Prime Jetscream The Ultimate Golden Gamer

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    In my opinion, the continuation of this ongoing speculation is rather ridiculous.
    It was clearly emphasized it is meant as a prequel to all, it just takes elements from several continuities. It is meant as a predecessor to all continuities, and players are meant to ignore plotholes.
     
  9. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    That doesn't make sense. It has absolutely no connections to most series, such as the Anime, Animated and the film series.
    Exodus attempted to do something like this and it turned out to be a horrible piece of literature.
     
  10. Prime Jetscream

    Prime Jetscream The Ultimate Golden Gamer

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    Not making sense doesn't mean we have to have a big discussion about which it fits into as if they haven't said anything relating to the subject.
    How did people even start thinking it's a prequel to anything? I doubt it was all just Hasbro saying it's Prime.
     
  11. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    If you read the OP, I already stated that Matt Tieger + Other developers have said its a G1 cartoon prequel and that before the Aligned Continuity was suggested by Hasbro WFC was stated as such in every interview and promotion.
     
  12. Prime Jetscream

    Prime Jetscream The Ultimate Golden Gamer

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    Matt also said it's a prequel to everything, also implying you're meant to ignore plotholes.
     
  13. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    But that doesn't work because it doesn't have a wide enough range. If it contained pieces of every continuity that'd work but it doesn't.
     
  14. Prime Jetscream

    Prime Jetscream The Ultimate Golden Gamer

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    I don't see how that can't make it a prequel to everything.
     
  15. orangeitis

    orangeitis Sick Kiss Players Lover

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    My take on it: It can't be a prequel to any existing continuity. If it fit in any G1 universe or the Prime universe, there would be contradictions galore. And the contradictions are what makes it a separate continuity in the first place, so it is demonstrably wrong if anyone, fan, Tieger, or Hasbro claims it's in continuity with anything else. Sure, your opinion could be that contradictions may not matter, or that said contradictions could very well be explained away in the future, but until they are explained away, they exist as preventive agents to keep the WFC/FOC series from being in continuity with anything yet.

    With that said, there is a possibility that WFC/FOC could be in a "Primax-cluster" universe(essentially a G1 universe, rather than the G1 universe), or that Aligned is a small multiverse/universal cluster itself. That would depend on if you take the game creator's(Matt Tieger's) word as prevalent, or if you take Hasbro's word as prevalent. The creator of a fiction usually don't contradict the brand his/her franchise is contained within, so this is a special case.

    Also, there are noteworthy points(for WFC/FOC being G1) that OP didn't include. In TakaraTomy, the WFC toys are included in a Primax-cluster comic storyline, thus solidly G1. However, their FOC Shockwave is(will be?) in their Prime toy line. In addition, the WFC designs are featured in one of IDW's series(dunno which, I don't read the comics), and that comic is a Primax-cluster storyline.

    Anyway, my personal opinion is that Matt Tieger's word takes precedent. As much as I'd rather Transformers being one whole continuity, there is just too much evidence to the contrary.

    RiD?

    Cause Megatron is a Decepticon, not a Predicon.

    Just putting that out there.
     
  16. Ra88

    Ra88 Dutchman!

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    I don't even get how people can honestly think that it is a full on, legitimate G1 cartoon prequel. The only thing you have to go on is what Tieger said early on in the WFC development process, and even that can be constructed as what the intended goal is, not that it is meant to literally fit in. It is a G1 based game, not an actual G1 cartoon game. It's in the same situation as Beast Wars: It fits an as of yet unseen G1 continuity that mixes cartoon and comic (and in the games' case with a slice of Prime thrown in). If it was a prequel, they wouldn't contradict various things in the cartoon, with the biggest one of all being that Starscream is still on Cybertron by the end of FOC.
     
  17. Kilowog

    Kilowog ORA ORA ORA

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    Well my nephew's five and he digs it. He likes playing with prime and wfc/foc toys and making 'past' meetings or whatever during playtime. He intently watches me play FOC because I told him in passing that it was connected in continuity (it all went over his head, but he got 'wfc is maybe the past) and yelling out stuff like 'cool' and 'oh like prime!' During gameplay (which has tripped me up a few times during the bomb escort level)

    He's five he doesnt concern himself with details, those take away from having plastic robots smash into a pile on the table and watching stuff blow up on tv, the small connection is enough for him and he doesnt overthink it, he accepts it and just lets it all play out in his imagination. Contradictions dont matter THAT much to kids.
     
  18. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    He said it in very recent interviews that FOC is designed to finish where the cartoon starts and it does; with the final chapter retelling the first half of MTME Part 1.
     
  19. FatalT 71

    FatalT 71 Mr. JazzHunter

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    I prefer to think of the video games existing in their own "G1-inspired" continuity.

    It's not Marvel.

    It's not Sunbow.

    It's not Dreamwave.

    It's not IDW.

    It's not Prime.

    It's High Moon's version of G1. Which is perfectly fine. People getting bent out of shape and arguing or going to lengths to explain how the High Moon continuity can be fit or shoe-horned into a previously existing continuity are a mystery to me. Enjoy the story for what it is, and hope we get another game. Although God help High Moon if they try to continue the story from here - torches will be prepared, and knives and pitchforks sharpened in anticipation of any perceived errors or slights...

    And I don't give a fig about what Hasbro says about an "Aligned Continuity" - that's just their feeble way of trying to claim that everything is canon now...
     
  20. Tikin

    Tikin Well-Known Member

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    Some pretty blatant bias, excusing the problems with G1 and nullifying the pros for Prime. Since I got nothing better to do why not why the hell not throw in my points.

    Think what ever you want about the story behind your toys. Just wanted to even out the bias a litte. :) 
    Personally in my mind it's the jumping off point for most any series, G1 and Prime in particular.
     

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