The general, all-purpose Star Trek discussion thread

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by Andersonh1, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. Andersonh1

    Andersonh1 Man, I've been here a LONG time Veteran

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    For all my fellow Trekkers out there, how about a thread to discuss likes/dislikes, etc? I'll start it off, since I'm currently in Star Trek watching mode.

    I've been rewatching DS9 in order the last few months, and I'm amazed at all the episodes I missed when it was on the air. DS9 is my favorite of the modern Treks, followed by TNG, with Enterprise and Voyager tied for third. Of course, the original series is the one I grew up with and it remains my favorite.
     
  2. Andersonh1

    Andersonh1 Man, I've been here a LONG time Veteran

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    The story behind my recent re-enthusiasm (is that a word?) for Trek.

    After a few years of being burned out and disinterested in all things Star Trek, something got me back into the groove. I found the first four movies at Wal-Mart on DVD for $7.50 each. It had been years since I'd seen Star Trek the Motion Picture, and despite remembering it as a slow movie, I picked it up and enjoyed it. From there it became a sequential journey through the Star Trek feature films. Once those were done, I was still in the Star Trek watching mood, so I began to catalogue all my 15-year old STTNG off-air recordings. Among them I found a few of the first season DS9 episodes.

    My wife had never watched DS9, and expressed a dislike for what she knew about it. But she sat down with me to watch "The Emissary", the first episode of the series, and actually enjoyed it, now that she understood what the series was about and who the characters were. So began my attempt to get all seven seasons on DVD (as cheap as possible), which meant trawling Ebay for deals. We've begun our start-to-finish run through DS9, though not always in transmission order since I actually bought the first three seasons out of order. But starting with season four, which I hope to have soon, the series starts to get pretty serialized, and skipping around isn't a good idea.

    Any other DS9 fans here? If so, feel free to post your thoughts in the thread, favorite episodes, etc. Try not to spoil later season episodes for me though. One of the things I've learned is that I missed more episodes in the first three seasons than I thought I had, and I know I missed a lot of them from the mid-fourth season on, once I went away to college. I generally know about the Dominion War, and I've seen the final episodes, but there are a lot of stories in-between "Way of the Warrior" and "What you leave Behind" that I haven't seen yet, so it will be a treat to see them on DVD for the first time.

    Then there's Voyager...

    Even as a long-time fan of Star Trek in general, I used to be a non-fan of Voyager. And to be honest, even though I’ve come to enjoy it as I’ve gone back and watched some of the episodes again for the first time in years, it’s may still my least favorite of the five Trek series. But I’ve enjoyed it far more than I thought I would, and my opinion of the series has gone up.

    My complaints with Voyager were pretty simple, and probably not all that different from other Star Trek fans. I wasn’t terribly enamored of the majority of Voyager’s characters. I didn’t like Janeway, and didn’t like Kate Mulgrew’s voice, as petty as that might be. Chakotay was boring, B’Elanna was irritatingly belligerent, Neelix was annoying, etc. I enjoyed watching Tom Paris, Kes and the holographic Doctor. When less than half the leads in a series interest me, that’s not a good sign.

    My other complaint was the story quality, or lack of it. “Caretaker” is pretty good as a first episode, but the series almost immediately fell back on either retread story ideas, or the dreaded “reset button”. By reset button, I mean either the episode 1) was all in someone’s mind, and therefore never happened; 2) took place in a temporary alternate timeline which was undone at the end of the episode, and therefore the events might as well never have happened; or 3) major changes happen to characters and damage occurs to the ship, only for such events to be undone entirely by some magical technobabble solution, thus rendering the events of the episode moot. If the events of the episode don’t actually count, why should I care? I seem to remember far too many episodes that were ruined by the reset button.

    Oh, and there’s one of the worst Trek episodes ever, “Threshold”, which I’ll review when I get to it. That episode alone seriously made me question why I was watching Voyager. It’s unfair to judge an entire series by one episode, but when the viewer is continuously disappointed, an episode like “Threshold” can be the knockout blow that drives them away. It didn’t quite do that to me, but it really made me a skeptical viewer rather than an enthusiastic one.

    So why would I give Voyager a second chance? I’ve already mentioned that watching the feature films whetted my appetite to go back and revisit Star Trek after a few years of lost interest. My first choice was Deep Space Nine, and I began buying DVD sets off Ebay. But in my desire to see some previously unseen Star Trek I began to consider Voyager as well. Back when Voyager first went on the air, I watched it on a semi-regular basis for the first three years, and very sporadically after that. Part of the reason was that I’d just become unhappy with the show, as detailed above, and the part of the reason was that I was in college at the time, and my TV viewing time was limited. I caught an occasional episode from season four onward, but very few, leaving a lot of “new” episodes for me to hunt down.

    Voyager DVD sets are more expensive than TNG and DS9. Maybe the more recent series have yet to go down in price, and that’s affecting the prices on Ebay. So I’ve been slower to collect Voyager. Despite wanting to buy season 1 and watch the show in broadcast order, I let economics dictate my purchase and I went for a season four set that was going for less than the usual price. My wife and I sat down to watch it over the next few weeks. I’d seen maybe four or five of the 4th season episodes, and much to my pleasant surprise, I enjoyed most of the season’s episodes quite a bit. My wife had never seen the show before, and she enjoyed them as well. For those who don’t know, season four is when Kes leaves and Seven of Nine is written into the show.

    I’ve recently purchased season two, and I have seen the majority of those episodes when they first aired back in the mid-90s. This will be the real test since watching it will either confirm my fifteen-year old impressions of Voyager or not. Either I was judging it unfairly at the time, or else the show seriously improved in season four, which as I’ve said was better than I expected it to be. TNG didn’t really start to get good until the third season, and it’s possible Voyager was the same way.

    Or else I’m a lot more forgiving as a viewer now than I was then, which is also possible. :lol 
     
  3. ShadowDragon

    ShadowDragon R to the D to the D yo.

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    I too watched TOS when I was growing up (no, I'm not that old, it was in syndication). And then the cartoon series. I was very excited when TNG came out and only missed one episode for the entire run, which I caught when it went into Rerun (The one with Sarek). DS9 Held my interest for a couple years, and I was recording every episode on VHS tape until I lost interest, I tried to pick back up with Worf was on it, but I couldn't get into the storyline, then when they got rid of Jadzia it was all over for me. I tried to like Voyager but just couldn't suspend my disbelief that they aren't going to be getting home for years to even enjoy what they tried and how they were screwed. As for Enterprise, I watched every episode up until they started the time jumping arc and I totally lost interest. I did catch the Mirror Universe episodes and I must say the ending of the series was the WORST ENDING EVER!

    I've seen all the movies Search for Spock was my first one, borrowed the Wrath of Khan and the incredibly boring TMP from the local library. I will watch the new one the weekend it comes out.

    I bought the cartoon Box set last year and watched through all of that. I really wish that would have continued longer.

    I've been to a few cons in Indianapolis when I was living up near there. I've met Michael Dorn, Mark Lenard, Marina Sirtis (HOT HOT HOT!), Patrick Stewart and Leonard Nimoy.

    And as a kid I was totally freaked out that not only could Geordi see but he was teaching US how to read.
     
  4. Andersonh1

    Andersonh1 Man, I've been here a LONG time Veteran

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    I remember seeing bits and pieces of the animated series when I was a kid, but I've never sat down and watched the episodes. I keep seeing the DVD set on Ebay, and now that I've finished collecting DS9, I'll probably pick it up next.

    What do you think about the new effects for the original series? Some of them are quite good, such as the landscapes and some of the spacecraft shots, but they aren't as good as I've seen on other shows. I guess the budget just isn't there. They do improve the watchability of the show, though dated special effects dont' really put me off.
     
  5. ShadowDragon

    ShadowDragon R to the D to the D yo.

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    I don't mind the new special effects, but I didn't mind the old ones either. As long as they don't replace the phasers with walkie-talkies or make Kirk shoot first... wait, Kirk always did shoot first, scratch that. ;) 

    I might try picking up the DS9 series at some point, I moved to NC around that time and as you said losing the story beyond season 3 if you miss pieces you miss alot so I could never get back into it after getting settled in.
     
  6. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Villain

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    It's funny you started this thread. As we speak I'm watching Voyager because, frankly, I love it. When it originally aired I thought it was rather boring being away from the federation and everything else we knew. But I've come to realize that Voyager is really the essence of what Star Trek is supposed to be about - exploring the unknown. Of course it also helps that I'm a fan of Mrs Columbo.

    Now, with all that said, I fully intend on reliving DS9 when I'm done with Voyager. I remember the last couple DS9 seasons being tremendous.
     
  7. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    They used to run the cartoon series on Nickelodian when i was a kid for awhile.
     
  8. Otispq

    Otispq Elocution Onymous

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    As for TOS, I saw them in syndication and like most people, I guess, the episode with Kirk and the Gorn (don't ask me for episode title..) ranks highly. The Bio beds were amazing to my young mind, and phasers rocked, but not nearly as hard as those sweet communicators being flipped open!

    I used to sit down with the whole family on Sunday nights to watch TNG, and good stuff it is. I still think that all the spandex uniforms are funky, but I guess that in the future when we don't need pockets, cuz we don't need money or id, or lip balm, or eyedrops, or makeup, or....ok, so the spandex really was a bad choice, but the effects aren't too bad.

    I saw the first season or two of DS9, then moved to Africa for a couple of years, and never got into the remainder, but did start watching Voyager, and despite Shane's mention of the reset button and other such weird plot devices, was very happy to have a Star Trek show to watch, but it was after Seven of Nine was in the show, and the eps. I've seen before her, well not as impressed. Say what you want about all the Borg and Species 8472, I liked them so much more than the Kazon episodes.

    I was enjoying Enterprise, until they decided to do a whole season story arc. It was reminding me much of TOS, but then went into soap opera mode, and never recovered enough to regroup itself for the long run.

    Have high hopes for the new movie coming out, it's nice to have the series revamped and whether it turns into more movies, or a new TV series, time will tell, but hopefully it doesn't suck and kill off any further things.

    Shoot, now I wanna go get some of the DVDs and start watching them again!
     
  9. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    I saw a few episodes of TOS, my favourites being The Corbomite Manouver and The Balance of Terror but its was never 'my trek' series

    That honour belongs to The Next Generation: Picard, Data, Riker, Tasha Yar (so good looking), Beverly Crusher (my god what an elegant woman, Picard shoulda tapped that) and of course, Worf. All great characters and some great stories too. And aside from the Enterprise E from the movies, the coolest looking Enterprise ever.

    DS9: Not a bad show, Odo, Kira and Garek were good characters but without a doubt the show stealer was Quark: for his best episode, see The Magnificent Ferengi.

    Voyager: don't bother watching until the episodes Scorpion pt 1 and 2, cos then you get Borg, Species 8472 and 7 of 9 (YUM)
     
  10. ac77

    ac77 Well-Known Member

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    I was a huge star trek fan - had every episode on video - had seen them all multiple times - until Enterprise came along. Absolutely killed the franchise dead for me. A great pitty.
     
  11. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    Voyager is probably my favorite of the Trek's. I just loved the idea that they where out on their own trying to get home against impossible odds. Granted the show started out a little slow but eventually it became a really great Trek. DS9 and TNG would also have to rank among my favorites.
     
  12. Tenebrouser

    Tenebrouser Craft...or is it crap?

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    Shane, I think you nail the Trek series dead-on. Voyager has gone up a tad bit with age in my book too, but I still remember pitiful episodes like the "Tuvix" one where Neelix and Tuvok merge through the transporter. Kes irritated me simply because they tried to create another Deanna Troi, who I thought was a useless character in TNG. Janeway's voice is annoying and though she tries to be endearing, it never really works. She reminds me of Nurse Ratched when things go wrong and is practically unbearable. Chakotay was incredibly boring, and the actor who played him (Robert Beltran?) even admitted as much in the show's later seasons. 7 of 9 was interesting, but they really took it too slow with her. Is it really that hard to get over being a Borg? Torres simply didn't allow the viewers to connect with her. Tuvok also wasn't as endearing as Spock, but how could he be?

    Now, the characters that did work for me were Harry, Tom, and the Doctor. Unfortunately, you can't make a great show when its best characters are of the lower ranks on a franchise that intensely focuses on the higher. Star Trek has really missed some opportunities for interesting storytelling by making each series about its captain or commander. Let's see the struggles of the lower ranks!

    DS9, I hardly remember because I missed a lot of it, but from what I do recall, it really took off when Worf came on board. I loved the serialized storyline and wish more shows would employ it, because they're always better. A gritty, battered Federation was a great idea that was pushed aside when Voyager came on the air. The thing that I think hurt the show early on was the whole Emissary-Bajoran religious slant, which just seemed overplayed and uncomfortable for everybody, including that actors in their facial expressions. It didn't help that Kira cut her hair short and made herself look horribly unattractive and put everyone off. Her character improved over time though, as did the show. I think overall though, it was the best Trek we ever got. We got a lesbo episode out of it anyways which is always a plus. :thumbs2: 

    TNG has not aged that well, IMO. Seasons 1-4 & 7 are virtually unwatchable to me. Nothing can beat "Pegasus" for good storytelling. That's what I think good Star Trek can be when real conflict is put on the screen and tried, rather than the stupid Season 7 episodes where the crew de-evolves into animals, or the episode where they come across the pyramid in space. WTF?

    Never watched 70% of the TOS. I don't really have the patience for it. Loved the even-numbered movies though.
     
  13. RabidYak

    RabidYak Go Ninja Go Ninja Go

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    TOS, TAS, TNG and DS9 are all FTW.

    DS9 in particularly deserves far more credit then it usually recieves. Not only is it the only modern ST show to have real balls in tackling issues, but it gave the franchise far more depth then it had before by digging into the other races and showing the Federation in context.

    Voyager is the worst thing to carry the ST name IMO, worse then ST5 in places since it doesn't even have The Shat and unintentionally hilarious dialogue to carry it. I may have another 40 or 50 years left to live, but thats still not enougth to justify spending another couple of hundred hours watching it.

    I'm apathetic towards Enterprise, I didn't find it particularly interesting but its not bad enougth to induce hatered like Voyager.

    Movie wise, I don't have to tell anyone how awesome the even numbered TOS movies are. As for the rest - TMP is too long winded and visually sterile to encourage regular viewing, ST3 comes across more like a TV movie then a theatrical feature and the less said about ST5 the better.

    Generations is a reasonably decent film outside of the ZOMG KIRK AND PICARD contrivance, mainly thanks to its great cinematography and solid work from the TNG cast. First Contact carried on the even numbered quality rule, only for Nemesis to kill it stone dead. Insurrection doesen't bother me as much as it does some people, althougth it isn't anything to get excited about.
     
  14. Neomarsala

    Neomarsala Transform and Roll Out

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    DS9 is far and away my favorite modern Trek series. I own the whole series and have recently begun watching it again after not having seen it for a while. I can't really think of anything to complain about with this series. I can't think of single "really bad" episode. All of the characters are cool and the show had such a large cast cast of interesting recurring characters. It fleshed out the Star Trek universe so much. It didn't create the Bajorans, Cardassians, or Ferengi, but it definately defined who those races were. It even fleshed out the Klingons quite a bit, which I don't think were touched on too much in TNG. The show in general just grew and evolved so much more than any other series.

    _______

    I grew up on TOS movies, so I love all of them. When I think of Trek, those movies are what I think of. I even like TMP, which while very slow, is still very interesting. It had a sense of awe that the later TNG movies could have used. TFF has many, many flaws, but it has some great Kirk, Spock, McCoy stuff.

    I bought the first season of TOS recently. I'd only seen a handful of eps of it before, but I really love this show and can't want to see the rest of it.

    _______

    I like TNG in general, there are some really good eps and some rather bad ones. The first 2 seasons are pretty terrible. The show did have a kick ass final episode which is one of my favorite all time Trek episodes.

    _______

    I watched Voyager pretty regularly when it started and more sporadically as time went on. I'd rank the show last out of all the series, though it's much better in reruns I think. Perhaps, it's because I know not to expect anything great from it.

    The best character was definately the Doctor. I'd buy a best of the Doctor DVD set. Tom and Harry were cool too, but I always felt that Harry was the most underused character. I'm probably in the minority, but 7of9 was one of the things I liked least about that show. It became all about her once she showed up. Also Voyager in general kind of eliminated everything that was cool about the borg. I think what made the borg interesting was the mystery surrounding them and the fact that you couldn't really have any kind of dialogue with them. Voyager got rid of all of that.

    ________

    Enterprise I like better than Voyager and it might be a show I'd be willing to buy. The show wasn't as good as it could of been, but it still pretty good and the characters were pretty interesting(though I wish they hadn't tried so hard to make T'pol the next 7of9). The final season was great, but the last episode was total crap. In fact, I like to pretend that the show ended one episode before that.
     
  15. Liege Prime

    Liege Prime Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I would say DS9 gets more praise then any series from people who have watched all of them. While it may not have gotten the media hype of some others, most people I talk to will say DS9 is their favorite. I honestly think they like saying that just because it isn't as popular, and therefore must endorse it. Not that it's bad in any way, but those not "in the know" seem to think it doesn't stack up so those "in the know" feel the need to spread the word. Personally, I watched the first couple of seasons and lost interest. However, I was also in my mid teens, and I lost interest in a lot of things at the time.

    I currently started collecting TNG on DVD, and I am up to season 3. Anyone who says it hasn't aged well have probably kept up with more current shows in the Trekverse. For me, not watching a 'Trek show or movie in about a decade, the first two seasons were great. They always managed to make me interested within that first segment beefore the credits, and if the story of the episode wasn't spectacular, getting to see some good characterization going on still made them interesting. They aren't all great, but they are all at least interesting. And one of the last episodes of the first season, which I believe was called "Conspiracy", is currently my favorite 'Trek episode of any series in memory, but I am only midway through season 3 and will have to refresh myself with other series.

    EDIT: Oh, I do want to add that yes, Wesley Crusher was terribly annoying in the first season for the mere fact that (A.) He was there and (B.) He saved the day so much. After season one he got a little better, but the seed of distaste for the character had already been planted.

    Since everyone loves DS9, it will probably be the next series I invest in. Of course, by the time I watch those, I doubt this thread will be around.
     
  16. Ops_was_a_truck

    Ops_was_a_truck JOOOLIE ANDREWWWWWS!!!!!!

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    I love all of the Trek TV shows with the exception of Enterprise. I have a lot of trouble watching episodes of Enterprise because the writing makes me cringe. I'm not going to go all hyperbolic and say "WORST SHOW EVAR" or anything like that, but it felt - at least, to me - like it lacked a lot of what made Star Trek great (again, for me) - quality writing, interesting characters and believable (within the context of the Trek universe) storylines. There was a little too much convenience going on in Enterprise and I always winced when they fell back on plot convenience to get out of errors in the plot, overall story, etc.

    I love all the films, but I always come back to Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Undiscovered Country and Generations. Those are my favs, with "The Motion Picture" following behind.
     
  17. Liege Prime

    Liege Prime Well-Known Member

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    It's been awhile, but I always liked "Undiscovered Country". It just seemed to have the most "movie" feel to it. It's hard to explain I guess.
     
  18. Ops_was_a_truck

    Ops_was_a_truck JOOOLIE ANDREWWWWWS!!!!!!

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  19. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    I was watching First Contact last night before I went to bed, and Nemesis the other night. Honestly, Nemesis isn't that bad of flick IMO even though it suffers from being a Kahn rehash.

    And DS9 is my favorite also, though I wish the seasons would go in price so I could collect them all.
     
  20. Liege Prime

    Liege Prime Well-Known Member

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    Insurrection was possibly the most "episode" like movie. I don't recall anything particulalry special about it that brought it above the story of a standard episode, just with a higher budget and some more time.
     

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