Customs: The "ethics" or "morals" of altering works?

Discussion in 'Creative General Discussion' started by bellpeppers, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    There's another discussion elsewhere that deals with fan-edits. Personally, I see no problem with it, yet some have pointed out that it's rather disrespectfull to the artist- in this case Bay. They compared it to drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa, while someone else (whome I agreed with) compared it to drawing a mustache on a reproduction of the Mona Lisa.

    Or is there a difference?

    Here in Radicons, we take great delight in making original figures better or taking existing figures and destroying them in order to make a new creation.

    But of course, that's all subjective.

    Personally, I see no difference between kitbashing or repainting and a fan edit of a film. However, I would like to see what others think.

    Discuss.
     
  2. Satomiblood

    Satomiblood Prototype Black

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    I've no problem with it. I'd rather make my own toys than wait for Hasbro or any other company to make them for me. I'm sure it pisses people off, especially non-bashers who were deprived of a toy that's hard to find, but I don't care. It's really none of my business and vice versa. If you pay for a figure and have plans of altering it, then you have every right to do so.
     
  3. robvega214

    robvega214 Mp5_Brut

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    i dont see a problem with alterin a film or toy to how u desire.....
    its no big deal.....but then again ..everything on the FORUMS is a big deal to some 1...:duel 
     
  4. QmTablit

    QmTablit Disguise: Check. Robot...

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    I don't think that fan is intentionally going about marketing and selling that edited film, so legally I see no problem with it.

    Same goes for kitbashing. People may get a number of commissions on a certain figure (I think F_R maxes at 6 or 7 Devvy commissions), but that's hardly a mass-produced product. So again, legally there is no issue.
     
  5. Nemesis Predaking

    Nemesis Predaking Offical Enforcer WTF@TFW Veteran

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    See there is a problem with that. While we may not view it as an issue, Hasbro does. Not that I'm trying to pick on F_R, but to Hasbro the Devs are "mass produced".
    Anything we do is still IP to Hasbro. Even if we create our own character. My Nemesis Predaking is a great example of that. Everything he is made up from is IP of Hasbro.

    They have stated many time, that they do not have issues with Customizers.
    But once you start selling "mass produced" items for profit with their IP, it's a totally different issue.

    Company's like FansProject & Igear are sitting in a grey area.
    Igear pushes things a lot more then FP.
    But if it came down to it. I'm sure Hasbro would fight to the bitter end to put a stop to it, If they saw fit.

    Average Joe blow kitbasher that sells a customs here & there, will go unnoticed by Hasbro.
    The more "branding" you have behind your name & the more you sell multiples of a custom.
    The more you are likely to catch the eye of Hasbro.

    Again I'm not trying to point fingers or pick on F_R. You could easily replace his name with numerous highly talented customizers.
     
  6. frenzyrumble

    frenzyrumble Banned

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    ah no, I know well there's an actual number before calling something "mass produced" (and it's usually in the 100s or 1000s, so I don't worry too much...)

    I keep my customs humbly before the line that Hasbro's put on the floor, however - that being said, I do plan some larger set runs of customs later in 2010, at which point huge %s of the profits go towards red tape and legal precautions.
     
  7. grimlock1972

    grimlock1972 "No Mas" My Wallet

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    I have no problem with it, that said i do get a little gut check when I recognize part of a rare or hard to find figure in a custom and i just hope it came from a junker and not a complete figure. In the end its your choice what you do with do with the figures you buy.


    Also I am in envy of the skills all you radicons possess
     
  8. MACRAPTRON

    MACRAPTRON Well-Known Member

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    I think all these combiners made out of unicron parts are lame, but that's just me. It's your toy, you do whatever you want with it.
     
  9. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    A customized TF is for your own enjoyment, mostly.

    It's basically a personal wish thingy rather than something
    to ridicule or something to make profit on it for the sake of profit.

    People buy customs, because many don't have the time, nor the skills
    to make that custom wish come true.

    That, is imo the context in which 99.99% of customs fits into and there's
    nothing wrong with that.
     
  10. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    So does this philosophy translate to making a fen-edit of a movie?
     
  11. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    That's a more difficult question.

    First, there's the whole copyright thingy. So even if it's for your own consumption they probably have many small lines which say you ought not alter the movie product.

    Secondly, eventually, noone will be able to resist posting it online.
     
  12. transtrekkie

    transtrekkie On the level.

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    I'll go one step further and question the ethics or morals of the original artist altering works once they're accepted works. Case in point: Star Wars. The original trilogy has been altered several times by Lucas himself ever since the original theatrical release. Was he ruining a work of art by altering his own works? Would Rembrandt have been ruining the Mona Lisa by painting a mustache on her?
     
  13. frenzyrumble

    frenzyrumble Banned

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    Another good example would be Disney. Would anyone even know who Disney was without their classics? (which of course were all already existing stories)

    Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.
    - Igor Stravinsky
     
  14. hXcpunk23

    hXcpunk23 The Chaos Bringer

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    I believe that truly great artists are able to visualize and conceptualize without taking from another. Borrowing from another (without credit to the original/originator) wouldn't necessarily make one a lesser artist, but it certainly doesn't make one great.

    "Great artists create original works of art, lesser artists steal and call it their own masterpiece".

    - ME

    As for the topic at hand, fan-edits will always exist and I see no issue with them as long as they are not sold for profit (since they aren't truly the work of the individual, only the new editing).
     
  15. frenzyrumble

    frenzyrumble Banned

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    well, every great artist (musical and fine art) was/is inspired by others, adapts to their own style, and potentially improves the art. I can't think offhand of any original artist.
     
  16. plowking

    plowking I'm with ErechOveraker. Veteran

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    I would agree with you on that.

    Where it goes wrong is when you go about claiming it, as a whole, all to be your own.

    I can say I modified/customized it. That modification or customization I performed may be my own idea....provided I didn't copy it from someone else....so that part I can lay claim to. But I can't lay claim to the project as a whole.

    People ask "Did you make that?"....my answer is "No, I didn't make it, I customized/modified it"....or whatever the case may be.

    So go ahead, edit away, just make sure that you make that known before hand
     
  17. chugway

    chugway ming mong ping pong

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    Ignoring the issue of original works, artistic merit and all that, th the eyes of hasbro (and the law) the problem with re-editing and distributing, say, rotf vs. Custom figures is the difference between selling a secondhand toy and distributing copyright material.

    Customising a figure is also very different to casting and selling parts, which is a whole different can of worms.
     
  18. eisen

    eisen "CUT ME SOME SLACKS!"

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    jackson pollock.
     
  19. Optimus_Khan

    Optimus_Khan Well-Known Member

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    Don't see a problem with it. I purchase a toy and it's mine. As a consumer buying a product I can do what I want with it. If I set it on fire or repaint it it's mine to do as I want.
     
  20. frenzyrumble

    frenzyrumble Banned

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    Read a bio on Pollock, originally he copied his brother's style, then moved to paintings using many similarities to Picasso. much later in his career did he implement his own style to his art.
     

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