The Avengers to be bigger than DOTM?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Zhadow, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. -Superion-

    -Superion- Well-Known Member

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    To me, DOTM's battle will always be weak because Bay didn't spend enough time with those characters to make us care about their well-being and survival, so even when some of the Autobots were gunned down (such as Ironhide), I didn't really feel any emotions about them. But in The Avengers, all of the characters were given sufficient amount of development so the final battle actually meant a great deal to me, because I do wanted them to live (esp. after a certain character went down in previous scene).
     
  2. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    Hasbro had to insist on some of those.
     
  3. Dansproject

    Dansproject Drifticon

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    Right on. I couldn't give a balls when any of the characters were being killed, apart from the main Decepticons as they were so feeble.
     
  4. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    I am talking from a climax-building point of view only, disregarding all the other ways, the sense of ultimate showdown was better achieved in DOTM.
     
  5. -Superion-

    -Superion- Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I don't think there was anything in DOTM's climatic battle as awesome as that long tracking shot of all the Avengers fighting at the same time. That was pure nerdgasm right there.
     
  6. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Climax-building, in the sense of, the way the threat and the battle was set up.

    But yes, Avengers was better in every other way. Except the action scenes, which I think are par-on-par.
     
  7. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    This. Every main character in Avengers got to look boss. In DOTM, Sam had more action than all villians not named Prime, and aside from Optimus and Bee, the Bots didnt do squat (pardon to the Mexican standoff and Laserbeak).
     
  8. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be viewing the source material differently from how others (including myself) do. There's some pretty good stuff out there (in both the comics and the TV series), but very little of it made it into the movies. Take the dialogue for example -
    that conversation between Megatron and the Fallen in ROTF sounded like they were ripping off Vader and Palpatine, almost word for word.

    You really get the impression that they concentrated on set-pieces, and then added in dialogue as an after-thought.


    Getting Bumblebee to lose his voice at first made it seem as though they wanted to make him a bit like R2-D2, but now it seems as though the real truth is that they found it too much hassle to come up with decent dialogue for the Cybertronian character with the closest relationship with the main human protagonist (then again, having his human partner constantly screaming wouldn't have helped. 'Bee's dialogue would have gone something like "Okay now, quiet. Just put a sock in it. I SAID, SHUT THE F&*@ UP!),

    (I found this on wiki, which made me laugh -

    Did anyone notice the resemblance? I didn't.)



    Trust me, give Transformers to another director, and you'll notice the difference. There are plenty of people out there who know how to make robots seem interesting, and with actual personalities.


    Apart from dialogue and storylines, another issue I have is Bay's idea of humour (or as it is sometimes referred to as, 'Bay's trademark humour' - that's not a joke) - other people may see it differently, but while I may let a bit of inappropriate humour and swearing pass, I find some of the 'funny bits' in the TF movies a bit too creepy to show kids. Bay seems to rely almost exclusively on toilet humour. (I suspect Whedon's style of humour in Avengers came as relief for people after the TF movies(
    Even after what Loki called Black Widow
    )). Yes, I know the movies are apparently not meant to be for young children, but the very existence of the toy line seems to argue otherwise.
     
  9. KnightHawkke

    KnightHawkke A man, who does not exist TFW2005 Supporter

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    One thing I noticed in Avengers that blew the bayformers out of the water. Character death, not only meant something in Avengers it really was the linchpin of the story. In Bayformers it was just another load of spit in the face the fans.

    A big difference indeed.
     
  10. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    Maybe so. Here's how I'm viewing the source material...

    There are 2 factions of alien robots, the Autobots and the Deceptions, who have been at war for thousands of years and originate from the planet Cybertron. Through a series of events, this war ends up being brought to planet Earth, where these robots disguise themselves as vehicles found on Earth. The leader of the Autobots, Optimus Prime, and the leader of the Decepticons, Megatron, have a longstanding history with each other. The Autobots place protecting the people of Earth over the pursuit of energy, while the Decepticons will stop at nothing for it.

    So you tell me, did the movies stay faithful to the source material, or am I just looking at that wrong?

    Just because the Transformers films didn't remake specific instances that occurred throughout the history of the franchise does not mean they were unfaithful to the source material. I'm somewhat surprised you thought that was even a valid point.

    This is just your opinion. Has no basis in fact whatsoever.

    I'm not sure why you're telling me this... I'm more than aware of it.

    Again, thanks for this, but I'm not sure what it has to do with what we're talking about here.
     
  11. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    It got certain very basic concepts correct, I'll give you that. But its faithfulness to the source material ends there.
     
  12. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    It happens... most, if not all, movies based on a source material change things for one reason or another. Nature of the beast.
     
  13. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    The movies borrowed the basics, but they seemed to missed out on everything else. I did try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but compared to the better TF episodes and comics, the movies come across as badly written, clunky with almost zero character development. Sure, if you just want to see giant transforming robots, they're OK, but a lot of TF fans like Transformers for the stories, the dialogue and the characters, in which case the movies are a major disappointment.


    They're not asking for Shakespeare. Just a reasonably well-written movie.

    I'm not against change - if something doesn't work on screen, something has to be done about it. (I can accept why the movie TFs look different from previous incarnations (except the Twins - they were really f*!"@d up)), But with the TF movies, a lot of things were done for the wrong reasons.
     
  14. megapork

    megapork Cheese

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    I Agree, But I really wish they did it better. They can go their own way if they could still give respect to the source material.
     
  15. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    Well, at least the massive opening of "The Avengers" has caught everyone's eye in Hollywood. I'm willing to bet the approach to blockbuster movies will be rethought from now on. The focus on the characters has not been lost on people as to its importance towards the success of the movie. Hasbro and Paramount know the bar has been raised.
     
  16. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    I really didn't think Avengers would top DotM at the box office, but it is looking like I am going to be wrong.

    Hopefully this has happened at an early enough stage in the TF4 writing process that they can incorporate a few lessons from this. Like worrying more about the writing and about characters.
     
  17. hotrod54

    hotrod54 Banned

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    Well, yes, of course it will do better. The characters have been around for at least a half a century, and in Cap's case, 3/4 of one.

    That and the fact it is a better movie simply because you don't have a moron directing it. You know, the one who thinks balls on a robot are funny.
     
  18. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Villain

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    It sucks how Avengers made Transformers look even more retarded in film - and then knowing another retarded film is coming. It's very depressing. But at least I have another Star Trek coming.
     
  19. -Superion-

    -Superion- Well-Known Member

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    I think one of the biggest differences between The Avengers and DOTM (and other TF movies) is that TA is not afraid to embrace its roots and keep its superhero costumes and action scenes. Aside from Hawkeye, every other Avenger dressed just like their Marvel Comics counterparts (esp. Cap), and have sequences seemingly lifted straight from the comic panels. Bay, on the other hand, not just changed Transformers to "Bayformers", he had to litter the screen with one too many human characters, and injected sexual innuendos, pee joke, fart joke, and yes even a giant pair of balls on the Devastator. Of course, he doesn't even care about those characters anyway, whether TF or humans, only the explosives and CGI. Too bad we will be getting more of the same in TF4 because like Lemmings people keep going to see them in theatre.
     
  20. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    I really think you can't compare the appearences here, because you see...Marvel comics uniforms can be adapted fairly easily. G1-designs on the other hand, are far harder because they don't fit with live-action. at all.
     

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