That reinforcement Order TF:TM

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Wheeljack30, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. Wheeljack30

    Wheeljack30 Banned

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    Ok we all know that the Decepticons were a great threat in the movie. But I don't understand is how can they be outnumbered as Springer said "Were outnumbered" when you have a whole army of Autobots and a huge Fortress?

    Thanks
     
  2. IaconStargazer

    IaconStargazer Maximal

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    Well, in regards to Autobot City itself, Metroplex's transformation cog had supposedly been damaged at the time of the battle, apparently preventing an automatic conversion of the fortress and requiring the manual one that Springer and Arcee helped start.

    And when it comes the actual number of combatants, one theory is that the Decepticons actually had several generics with them - which isn't impossible, given the many Reflectors and duplicates of Seekers and Rumbles/Frenzys throughout the early episodes of the show.
     
  3. Wheeljack30

    Wheeljack30 Banned

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    When Ultra Magnus gave his orders Metroplex's cog wasn't damaged at the time cause it was early in the battle
     
  4. Superquad7

    Superquad7 We're only human. Super Mod

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    But the whole Autobot army wasn't on Earth at the time. Also, this thread presupposes that Springer's assessment was 100% accurate. He may have felt vastly outnumbered, but he may not have assesses the situation 100% accurately.
     
  5. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Also, Springer is a bit of a wuss.
     
  6. Tripredacus

    Tripredacus K-Mart-ian Legend

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    I'm not sure how far along the idea of Metroplex was when the movie was made. Yes we know Autobot City could "transform" but no idea it would later transform into a robot. It was retconned that the transforming cog was destroyed during the battle. But we only see that it transforms into the battle mode, are you wondering why they didn't try robot mode first?

    It could be that the city wasn't empty at the time. And Metroplex isn't the entire city anyways.
     
  7. Thundershot

    Thundershot The guy with 28 Sweeps

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    They didn't have the name yet... The Marvel adaptation calls the city "Fortress Maximus" long before the real Fort Max came along...
     
  8. Sharpfinger

    Sharpfinger Well-Known Member

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    The Autobot City uses Metroplex's transformation cog to convert from city to base. In other episodes we can see Metroplex as only part of the city. But this didn't explain why the main Autobot stronghold is so empty. Hey, the Autobot forces are a dozen robots in the moonbases and another few on Earth... the Transformers cartoon isn't good in "war" scale.

    Some explanation can be: Springer group was outnumbered. But there was another fights in the city that he can't knew anything about. So he is talking what he sees, not the whole battle situation. With that we can guess that a real battle was happening in the city, with much more forces than what we see (and even with some Decepticon troops on earth)
     
  9. Ruination04

    Ruination04 8 Years Old Since 1984!

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    Let's just do the math...who do we know was there?

    Autobots
    Magnus
    Kup
    Hot Rod
    Springer
    Arcee
    Perceptor
    Blaster
    Wheeljack
    Windcharger
    4 cassettes

    Decepticons
    Megatron
    Soundwave
    3 Insecticons
    Astotrain
    Blitzwing
    6 seekers
    6 Constructicons
    4 cassettes

    who else? 33-13 so far.....

    The Autobot shuttle could only hold so many 'Cons....
     
  10. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    I always figured Megatron had waves of reinforcements waiting to pour in behind once he pierced their defenses in the shuttle.
     
  11. Ruination04

    Ruination04 8 Years Old Since 1984!

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    Maybe so...maybe once they took the shuttle Astrotrain followed behind with a load of 'Cons.
     
  12. ABrown

    ABrown Well-Known Member

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    Seems pretty outnumbered to me.

    And again, haven't we already had this conversation???
     
  13. Ruination04

    Ruination04 8 Years Old Since 1984!

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    Dunno, but it seems like a cool topic. Never thought about how few Autobots there were. Never really counted them up before.

    There's probably more...I just did a quick count of who I could remember being there either in the fight or already dead.
     
  14. Atlas42

    Atlas42 Banned

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    Shockwave and Grapple both make short cameos. You forgot Blurr. Later material would retcon Tracks, Warpath, and Lugnut into the battle. Deleted scenes removed characters from the battle such as Sideswipe (whose dead body can be spotted briefly), Red Alert, Mirage, and Trailbreaker.
     
  15. kryptofred

    kryptofred super-con

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    When Springer says that he's really just interpreting what Perceptor, who had already gotten a better view of the Decepticon force, was trying to say. Perceptor reported a "distinct tactical deficit". That could mean a lot of things, out gunned, out manuvered, caught by surprise or any combonation of things. When Springer says his line he's really just trying to shut Perceptor up and stir Magnus to action (perhaps another indication that Magnus isn't up to the challenge of leadership).

    Also you have to consider the new situation on earth we're presented with as well as what the purpose of the city really is.

    At some point between the end of season 2 and the start of the movie Megatron returned to Cybertron and reconqured it. Any Autobots still on cybertron (and perhaps some neutral parties if any remained) would have been forced to flee cybertron and head for the Autobots lone stronghold Earth. An influx of that many transformers nad their need for energon would logically lead to them needing a new facility to live in. So Autobot City would probably be heavily populated but not neccisarily by warriors, most of whom would be needed on the moon bases. The city would rely on the security systems Megatron mentions and the security force Magnus leads. Also, based on the fact both Kup and Hot Rod were outside the city, we can assume other members of that force were off-site too.

    Plus the only indication we get that Autobot City is anything more than a city/factory is when Magnus orders it transformed. He doesn't even say what it'll transform into and no one ever uses the word "fortress" or even the name Metroplex. We can guess that the security systems would include some sort of warning of any enemy ships and would in turn trigger the city's transformation into a defensive mode. If that happened you wouldn't need an army of defenders just enough to man the battle stations but the Decepticons beat the security measures and caused the "distinct tactical deficit" Perceptor talks about and Springer translates into "We're outnumbered!"
     
  16. Metroplex79

    Metroplex79 Hey mouse, say cheese!

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    Didn't the Bots have Blue Streak, Sunstreaker, and Huffer as well? You see them watching Hot Rod was doing his one-bot assault on the commandeered shuttle.
     
  17. Ruination04

    Ruination04 8 Years Old Since 1984!

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    I'm not sure. Sunstreaker is questionable. I believe he was also on the shuttle when Prime arrived and ordered the Dinobots to attack Devastator.
     
  18. Metroplex79

    Metroplex79 Hey mouse, say cheese!

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    I was referring to the top pic. And you're referring to the bottom.
     
  19. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Maybe most of the Autobots were out at the cinema or something.
    Or perhaps there was a muffler sale on in another city.
     
  20. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    fixed
     

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