Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Smashs, Jun 1, 2017.
As much as I don't like TLK and will probably never watch the whole movie ever again, I always find myself coming back to the last couples of scenes starting with Optimus coming back and killing Infernocus. And really, it's mostly because of Steve Jablonsky's score. I find it just works for these last scenes and tbh, it's almost too good to be in this movie.
I just keep wondering how they went south so badly. After DotM and AoE, it seemed like they were at least somewhat course correcting. But then TLK dropped. All four of the previous movies I've rewatched at least a dozen times but TLK, I haven't watched it fully more than twice and I haven't skipped through a TF movie this badly since RotF. All the others are solid to me.
It holds together decently well...until Cade goes to England. Actually, scratch that, I like Cogman so everything up to the Sub ride holds together. From going underwater until the Key or whatever rises is just dead space for me. From the Bee vs Op fight forward it picks back up and becomes a patchwork of "Like this part/don't like this part." And as a fan of these movies I've been fairly forgiving about them. TLK is the first one that really made me outright criticize it to the point of it's technical merits. The editing and pacing of it is all over the place. Oh, and it's also the first one where I REALLY noticed the changing aspect ratio. All of this stuff is things people for years have griped about the movies but TLK is the only one that really made me go,"Yeah, that's a problem." Or better still, leave the theater unsatisfied. All four of the prior ones I left with a smile on my face.
Well, at least BB is a smaller movie so it should be pretty good. Interviews with the director also seem to indicate the type of movie he was interested in making. If he lives up to those comments then it should be good.
This is true, I've never felt this way about a TF film except 1 and before 2 when they were promising it'd be infinitely better than 1. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Sigh... Alright. Here's my review. THIS MOVIE WAS BORING.... I enjoy the first three transformers films. Sure, They are awful but it's enjoyable. AOE and TLK are boring pieces of trash. I don't really like the new Optimus design, I like movie 1-3 one better, and hod rod look like a junkyard fire. I wanted to fall asleep in the movie theater. All the scenes were pointless. Also Bumblebee fighting nazis. I'll leave it there.
The one thing I'll semi-agree with you on is Optimus changing his look...I mean, I like his look in AOE and TLK well-enough; it's interesting to me, but his original cinematic look, especially in DOTM, was best...there's just a really gritty, imposing, and clunky look and feel to him that combined his animated design perfectly with a more realistic, intricate appearance. Like I said, I like his newer, more streamlined look okay, but sometimes his new feet remind me of giant sneakers, and then he looks goofy to me. (lol)
For me, I'd like Dotm's Op's body with AoE head. AoE Op's head looks better because they fixed the bridge of his nose so it's not such a honker like in the first three. There's also a lot of minor changes that really helps make him more expressionate but also more cleaner. But body wise, yeah, DotM I prefer over his AoE/TLK body.
Yes! I forget about the subtle improvements they made to the AOE model...you're absolutely right. And...seeing as he opposed Quintessa, perhaps he'll abandon his "Knights of Cybertron" look and revert back to something a little more original. That would be very cool, and it would give Hasbro an excuse to make new toys, of course. (lol)
Paramount has gotten so stupid and predictable over the years that everytime they shit out a TF sequel, you don't even HAVE to speculate the story (even if there's none) in it. You can just assume the worst and that's EXACTLY how the film itself is gonna be. With or without bay, they are still just as arrogant as before.
Transformers is screwed as long as Lorenzo is at the wheel. Despite all the headscratching choices Bay has made over the live-action movies run, Bonaventura is shown to not really get Transformers either and possibly might be worse. Ultimately, the sooner TFs gets out of the clutches of Paramount the better imo since at this point they're just looking at TFs as a property to save their @$$ since they're bleeding money right now. When corporations, especially movie studios, are in that bind they tend to make a chain reaction of monumentally bad decisions.
That said, I think Travis Knight will come through for the series here based on his prior work. At the very least it should make sense as he's a director that will follow a script so there should be a bit of clarity there.
I've just realised how I can headcannon fix the part of TLK that causes me the most problems. Namely, the whole "Autobots on Earth for centuries" thing. The Knights came to Earth, Merlin's staff was there, King Arthur, Unicron, all that stuff was real. But everything else is a case of Unreliable Narrator. Prime and his crew in those photos never landed on Earth before 2007. Only Hot Rod, Bumblebee and maybe one or two more did who were either there looking for the Allspark having tracked the signal like Bee did or were part of Hot Rod/Cogman's troop who were guarding against the awakening of Unicron. Like Bulldog (as he had his WW2 alt mode still). Everyone else in that retirement castle just found their way there having arrived on Earth after DOTM. And everyone is senile.
After all, Burton hardly seems like he's in control of all his facilties. He had those paintings made after the Transformers were revealled following the Battle of Chicago. That's why he has a bronze statue of Prime in his AOE body and Megatron in his TLK body, why the transformers are all in their modern bodies in historical paintings. Everything he says about the Witwicken clan is all a delusion in his mind. After all, does anybody actually corroborate what he says? Bee doesn't even acknowledge his part in WW2.
But then why did Simmons want to be in it? Because he's Simmons. He's a glory hound and wants to be in anything secret, real or not.
By making this headcannon adjustment, the history told in TLK can now fit into continuity with the history already established in the movies. And also explains why it's all the famous people in it. Because why would he put nobodies in it?
Hmmm..maybe I should rewatch the films? I wish DOTM Optimus could come back.
Very interesting theory, my friend...I like it. However, I have to disagree...Burton produced way too many artifacts and had way too much pertinent information to be just some wealthy nut obsessed with Transformer lore. I'll agree that there were some inconsistencies in some of his "collectibles", namely the Megatron bust you referred to...why would he have that particular bust made so soon after Megatron's most recent metamorphosis, as it were...most people weren't even aware that Megatron had returned, but then again Burton would have had the resources to devote to intel on Megatron and his whereabouts. Besides, I'm sure, according to everything Burton may have known, perhaps Megatron had a role to play as well, and Burton knew any activity traced back to Megatron might be more evidence pointing to events that had been foretold for centuries. So maybe he was well-aware of the "new" Megatron, but then this all begs the question...why, in this relative short amount of time, would he have the bust commishioned (or made by Cogman, perhaps) in the image of Megatron's new form? I personally chalk it all up to sloppy writing, simply an oversight, but in a "head-canon" (I like that term, BTW...I've had one of those for years...) (lol), I'd chalk it up to fanaticism on Burton's part, perhaps further illustrating how fixated he was, and perhaps there was some dementia going on, too...I figured that was why he stumbled out onto the battlefield, seemingly in a daze, exposing himself to Megatron...I thought it was kind of sad yet poignant, a fitting end for his character, having fulfilled his role as keeper and protector of the Transformers' legend. One more thing...Burton had to have some actual standing of importance or real inside knowledge with the British government when he slipped-into the Prime Minister's office via the hidden passageway. I just thing he knew way too much to be outright dismissed. And, to address the inconsistency concerning Optimus Prime alleging the Autobots had learned Earth's languages from the world-wide web, as it were, implying they had never been there before, but in my mind, I had reasoned in my own imagination that Prime didn't have to divulge any information he had about Transformers' secret, untold past history on Earth...for one thing, as their leader, he might have withheld any info on their past relationship with Earth from the other Autobots, unless the rest of them were in on it also, as it were, and were going along with Prime's supposed facade with the humans...you'd think Bumblebee would be in on it for sure, since it was revealed in TLK that he'd been here for some time, unless one would assume Prime could somehow erase the memory of his soldiers for the sake of secrecy, but I really can't see Prime doing something like that, unless it was done for protection. I don't know...
Another thing, he might have been sworn to secrecy as one of the Knights of Temenos...they certainly implied they sought secrecy when Merlin came begging for help. Perhaps it was one of those "need-to-know-basis" sort of things, that only the Knights were privy to...but then that wouldn't necessarily explain why Hot Rod and Bumblebee had been here for at least decades, if not longer...they would either have to be knights themselves, which clearly they weren't, or have some sort of clearance or permission from the Knights of Temenos to be on Earth. Heck, maybe they were here on Earth as the Autobot's version of Seekers, helping search for the Allspark, for who knows how long...
It really becomes a maddening trip down the proverbial rabbit-hole, if one tries to truly untangle all of the inconsistencies in the movie mythos and make any real sense of it, doesn't it. I find that's part of the fun of it all, though, if I can make it make sense to my own imagination.
Yes...I caught the confrontation between Prime, Megatron, and Sentinel Prime the other day on Youtube, and sometimes, when it's been awhile between viewings, I forget how awesome that whole sequence is...Optimus standing there victorious at the end, with all kinds of damage, including a missing arm, essentially defeating Megatron with only one arm, and then he does that little head-nod to Sam...it's such a bad-@$$ scene, and definitely one of my all-time favorite "movie Prime" moments.
I forgot he slipped through that secret passage. Clearly some is true, Arthur, the knights and so on. Maybe the witwickan secret order did exist and passed down the legend from the knights to guard earth and the staff. But it was only the families of the knights of Camelot. Burton made up a lot of it though. The history of Prime's team for example. It explains their present bodies in historical images.
I agree burton was keeping tabs on current events. Cogman and hot ro made that easy. And he could have easily acquired all those artifacts. He's rich an we saw in aoe salvage was being sold globally. He could easily have paid a fortune to get that pillar for example.
I see your point about prime being the unreliable narrator in the first film. But if they had been so active on earth, surely there would be more evidence and public knowledge, even if just rumours and legends. And if so, no wonder the cons won th war. The bots were fighting all our wars instead.
To me, it makes more sense for burton, cogman, hot rod, bulldog, spitfire to be descendants of Camelot, guarding the family secret and dementia setting in, making him start expanding his role in the lore to the crazy level. That's why he had that momentarily pause and break when telling the story, he started to remember this part was fake but then he went back into his delusion.
Hot rod an co may have come to earth with bee looking for the allspark decades ago, before ww2, met young Burton in the war and after hearing of his family secret, agreed to help him over the years, having recognised the threat, while bee kept searching for the cube. And all the other autobots were on Cybertron fighting for their own world. Where they should be.
While The Last Knight could and should have been much better, not one of the films is anywhere near as bad as they could have potentially have turned out. Not even one of them. Most of the films are better than 99%, if not 100%, of the fan ideas for what those films should have been. Revenge of the Fallen was probably as good as it could have been given the writer's strike and lack of a complete script when filming started. Dark of the Moon and Age of Extinction were better as the third and fourth Transformers films, respectively, than any, and I mean any, fan ideas for those films I have seen, and I've seen hundreds if not thousands of those.
So yeah, other than The Last Knight I think the Bay Transformers sequels are the best possible movies realistically given the writer's strike last decade, baggage from certain human characters, and attempting to balance the needs of general audience members who want human characters and hardcore Transformers fans, many whom likely can not be pleased.
I watched the Last Knight about a month ago. I used to really hate the Bayverse, but I actually enjoyed watching this movie, it was a lot of fun.
I thought the first 20 or 30 minutes were a blast. I absolutely loved the stuff in the ruins of Chicago, the junkyard, and the abandoned town. Those were all such interesting locations and interesting situations. It felt like an adventure movie, on the run from the bad guys. I really wish the entire movie had just been Cade, Izzy, Jimmy, and the Autobots rescuing broken Transformers and building an army to fight Quintessa or something.
I wasn't so big on the knight stuff, it seemed kind of like a crutch to me (which is ironic considering that's in the title of the movie). I feel like the movie takes a nosedive when Cogman and Sir Edmund Burton enter the movie. These were fine characters, but they didn't really fit the tone of what was going on. We go from a fast-paced, in-the-moment adventure to a long talking scene that isn't even that relevant. The sequence at Burton's castle is interesting in theory, but it drags on too long and it ultimately amounts to nonsense. I will say it's not terrible though, it's elevated by the fact that it's a bit tongue-in-cheek.
Thankfully the finale picks up a bit. The remains of Cybertron entering Earth's atmosphere was a cool idea, and I applaud them for preforming Cybertron practically (although I take a bit of an issue with the execution). There were a lot of cool little moments, like the Infernocus combiner and Hot Rod's time-stopping gun (seriously, why has no one put that in a movie before this?). I feel like the battle could have been a little more creative, but I do think it's far better than some of the city battles (which just look bland to me).
I think the Autobots could have used a little bit more characterization, but I think this movie has very interesting human characters (it's one of the few pieces of Transformers media that I would argue gets humans right). One thing I noticed is that pretty much every major human character in the movie has a solid connection to the robots and a reason to be there. They earn their place in the story. Cade gave up a normal life to hide the Autobots. Burton has a Transformers museum. This is more interesting to me than characters like Sam Witwicky or the TFP kids, who are just sort of there because the story needs humans. Heck, I'd argue Izzy is possibly the most interesting human character we've seen in the brand (at least in theory). I really wish she were explored more.
I really applaud the fact that they made a Transformers movie that wasn't Optimus heavy. I like Optimus, but he tends to dominate the story when he's on-screen. Aside from that, he's used all the time in TF media and it was kind of neat seeing his role decreased. I like this interpretation of Hot Rod. I never really cared for the character (always found him a bit generic), so I was fine with the filmmakers doing something completely different. This was by far my favorite movieverse Megatron (maybe one of my favorite Megatron designs ever). I'm really glad they kept Frank Welker on board. The team of Decepticons was great! This is the first time I can recall seeing movieverse Decepticons having real personalities, even if they were a bit basic. Their introduction was cheesy as heck, but that's what made it wonderful.
To me The Last Knight felt kind of tongue-in-cheek overall. It felt like the filmmakers were in on the joke. About a year ago I rewatched the '07 film, and I was surprised how "serious business" everything was (not to say it was humorless by any means, but it takes itself pretty seriously at times). I sort of applaud them for trying to play it straight, but I don't feel like it worked. Some of the government scenes, military scenes, and stuff with Sam's school/love life are kind of grueling. The Last Knight feels very Marvel at times, and I enjoyed that. Even when it slowed down, it never felt that tedious me (the closest for me was probably the submarine sequence.)
I liked about 70% - 80% of the movie. That's not to say it was great or even a well-made film, but it was an enjoyable guilty pleasure to me. There was also a lot of good humor in there. Off the top of my head I can think of several memorable quotes. In general I'm amazed how far the technology has come since the series first started, the robots look very realistic and the animation is very fluid. They've really nailed body language and facial expression. I would be curious to see a fan-edit that removes the stuff with Burton and the knights, and just focuses on the present-day adventure without all the history stuff.
The best way I can review this movie:
I rented this movie on Amazon, and watched it right away, and rather than letting the file just automatically delete after the 3 days you get for the rental, I just deleted it immediately.
My overall review is going to be me paraphrasing Jontron's tweet about his thoughts on The Last Jedi: "It was the cinematic equivalent of ISIS smashing up a museum". I would rather defend Energon, Pat Lee, Kiss Players, or the Machinima Prime Wars Trilogy than to say a single positive thing about this "film".
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