TFP misunderstandings, in depth analysis of arcs and their meanings

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Lord Tron, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    It's been a bit since I posted in this forum but having gone through some of TFP again and really seeing the point behind each arc, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people were watching this show with the wrong mind set and the wrong expectations. This will be an ongoing thread where I will address certain issues people had with Prime and why these issues weren't warranted mostly due to them misunderstanding the point of the arc in the first place. This doesn't have to come off as insulting it's just an analysis that could yield information maybe you didn't notice before. This will be very long.

    File 1: Dreadwings death.

    A massive complaint regarding the end of season 2 is the nature of Dreadwings death which many saw as wasting the characters potential and ending his arc abruptly without resolving any of his character struggles. The only way to come to this conclusion is to not understand Dreadwing's arc in the first place, and mistake it for something else which many did.

    Many fans saw Dreadwing as the decepticon who had a code of honor that he struggled with, torn between two sides deciding which he would stand by. This is not true that description fits Dinobot not Dreadwing. Everyone expected Dreadwing to eventually turn on the cons join the Autobots and redeem his honor, likely by dying a noble and heroic death. This is a complete misconception Dreadwing's struggle with honor had nothing to do with himself but rather the cause he served. Dreadwing didn't seek redemption, so him redeeming himself makes no sense.

    Too many mistook Dreadwing for Dinobot 2.0 and thus expected him to go down a similar arc. They kept waiting for Dreadwing's redemption and it never came, so they said the character was wasted and his arc unresolved. Dreadwing's arc did resolve it wasn't dropped they resolved it, unfortunately it had nothing in common with Dinobot's noble sacrifice which everyone was expecting. This is where the problem becomes apparent, Dreadwing is not Dinobot. Dreadwing does not have the same arc as Dinobot; he doesn't even have the same motivation. Dreadwing's death is written to culminate everything about his character, his loyalty to Megatron and the decepticon cause, his vendetta with Starscream, his conflict with optimus, and his loyalty to his brother and drive to avenge him.

    Now let's look at his arcs resolution. Dreadwing's arc concludes when he discovers that Starscream desecrated his brother's body by reanimating him into a lifeless zombie, denying him the right to ever rest in peace and Megatron is okay with this even letting Starscream rejoin the decepticons despite this. Dreadwing feels that the decepticons have no sense of honor anymore the cause he valued no longer exists, and Cybertron can't be reborn by the disgrace it has become. Dreadwing severes his ties with the Decepticons stealing the forge and giving it to the Autobots. Optimus offers Dreadwing to join them but he can't, he doesn't believe in their cause and their leader killed his brother.

    His loyalty to his brother's is all he has left he can't disgrace his memory by joining the ones who killed him, "Betraying my kind isn't the same as accepting yours". That line resolves his conflict with Optimus he knows optimus is what Cybertron needs but he can't join him he killed his brother. By refusing the Autobots Dreadwing has severed all ties he's chosen his loyalty to his brother over everything else, he has nowhere to go, except to his death. Dreadwing returns to the decepticons to give Skyquake some sense of dignity and honor by killing Starscream and avenging his desecration. Megatron will kill him for this if not that certainly for giving Optimus the forge. He's dead and he doesn't care he wants to die, he has nothing left. Dreadwing goes to kill Starscream knowing he will die and it's exactly what he wants, he walks to his death.

    Dreadwing committed suicide essentially. It was suicide by cop. Being a kids show Dreadwing's suicide would have to be subtle. Dinobot died nobly and heroically to redeem his own honor and atone for his mistakes. Dreadwing committed suicide because he didn't want to live in a world where the cause he valued with all his spark was so disgraced. It resolves his arc completely there was nowhere left for him to go. It acknowledges everything about his character, struggles and arc. It was a great conclusion to Dreadwing's story even if it was a truly tragic one, with a very dark and cynical ending.

    Dreadwing was never Dinobot but I sincerely believe people kept waiting for Dreadwing to become Dinobot and were very mad when it didn't happen. I don't think many people actually understood the purpose of Dreadwing's character arc which is fine there's nothing wrong with missing the details of something, we can always learn more. That concludes this file of TFP misunderstandings.

    Next file Bulkhead's injury and recovery.
     
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  2. LynKey

    LynKey Well-Known Member

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    Sound´s interesting.

    Dinobot? I thougt he was called a Break Down 2.

    Optimus killed Sky Quake? Are you sure it wasen´t Bee?
     
  3. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Dreadwing didn't know that I was discussing things solely from his perspective, he believes optimus killed him and is never told otherwise.

    I never heard that regarding Breakdown. Basically people wanted the character who would struggle between the two sides and ultimately redeem himself, the Dinobot character if you with.

    Glad you enjoyed this I'll get up file 2 as soon as I can.
     
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  4. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Not safe for nought to three sad onions

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    Nice to see you branching out from the movies.

    Nothing will justify Bulkhead's not-death, though. That was a Kira Yamato-survives-a-point-blank-nuclear-explosion bullshit tier ass pull by the show and everybody is in agreement over this.
     
  5. DOTM Bumblebee

    DOTM Bumblebee I must be some kind of nut...

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    This was a very smart and insightful post. Good work, sir! :D 
    I don't agree. :D 
     
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  6. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    *Sees thread title* OMG, is this from Lord Tron? It is. Did my argument with you earlier actually drive you to create this thread? That's hilarious. :lol  I have to see this. *looks at blocked content* OK, there's nothing about Arcee and I'll admit that I agree with you on Dreadwing.

    Edit: Huh, I don't see this thread within the TFP/RID forum, yet it still showed up on the list of forums. Guess there's an oversight in how the ignore function works.
     
  7. Applejacktimus

    Applejacktimus Likes Alpha Bravo

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    That's a good way to look at things.
     
  8. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Bulkhead's file will be mostly explanation however this is an analysis not a straight up praise, as such criticism will be included if I feel it should, and in this particular case there will be a criticism section.

    One final note I can't comment to Soundwaverules since he blocked me so I would appreciate if someone would kindly give Soundwaverules my regards. I welcome him and whatever discussions he brings, despite our disagreements I have no personal issue with him nor anyone else here. I would appreciate if someone would deliver this message to Soundwaverules for me, I want him to be feel like I welcome him here along with anyone else rather I agree with them or not.

    One final message don't expect a lot of comments from me. This discussion forum is meant for everyone else to discuss I just post the analysis everyone else can do the rest. I will respond to comments but I am not looking to debate with anyone, though debates between all other members are happily welcomed. Welcome to my analysis Autobot Burnout hope you enjoy whatever time you spend here.
     
  9. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, I see. I wanted to know if you'd respond to my post. In fact, since you've welcomed me so openly, I think I'll unblock you, for now. It's actually unusual for me to block people after just one bad interaction, especially if it's someone like you, who I respect the amount of thought you put into the arguments you make. I'm just getting so tired of bad interactions with anyone, I've started becoming less hesitant to use the ignore feature and I may have jumped the gun, this time.
     
  10. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    I understand that I'm not going to lie and say that won't happen again I can't guarantee that since the movie forum brings out a lot of frustration in me I'm kind of empathic and the environment of something affects my mood. I didn't seek a debate with you I actually wanted to state something I liked I guess your response set me off. I put a comment in that thread ignore it, I was angry I'll delete it.

    Either way enjoy your time here, as I said this isn't meant for me it's meant for everyone else to discuss until the next file is ready.
     
  11. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    If you weren't trying to create a discussion, you probably shouldn't have responded to someone's post, but I definitely understand the movie forum bringing out the worst in people. It's happened to me countless times. We just have to try and be cautious of that.
     
  12. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    In truth I don't think I have ever posted a comment that wasn't a response to another one why I'm not sure I think it's to relate what I'm saying to the topic at hand so it doesn't sound random. Either way it doesn't make a lot of sense and there's no way I can logically justify it. A comment can be self contained I have no idea why this hasn't occurred me despite it being obvious.
     
  13. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree. And personally, I'm more glad than not that Bulkhead fully recovered. The show was already heavy enough without a crippled Bulkhead moping around the base, telling everyone to go off & have a good time without him.

    As to Casefile 1: Dreadwing
    - I like your reasoning, & I think you're on the mark about a lot of fans expecting a Dinobot or Armada Starscream arc from Dreadwing only to be hit with something else. Perhaps the show's failing then, is that they didn't spell it out more plainly what they were aiming for. Even Dinobot gave a monologue or two explaining to viewers what his whole dilemma was.

    Reading your analysis, I was reminded of the movie Ghost Dog, where a modern-day samurai commits suicide by mob-boss under similar circumstances.

    Anyway, good stuff & I look forward to Casefile 2. :) 
     
  14. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps though that's a double edged sword sometimes people get very annoyed with a character spelling things out with Dinobot it made sense as he was always a very poetic character almost Shakespeare like. Dreadwing spelling out his emotions doesn't make sense it's not his character, Dreadwing doesn't monologue to himself or even others. So while I agree that clarification would've helped I'm not sure where you would put it.

    I have a lot to say about Bulkhead in file 2 some you might not agree with which is fine. This will be quite a few files as I already know many others a few other notable ones will be Orion Pax as I think the idea of that arc was lost to some due to the fact that there were too many ways you could've done it, that definitely gets in the way of the arc one gets. Another notable file Smokescreen especially him being chosen as a Prime and why that was done, I have a lot of intriguing details with that particular one.
     
  15. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps what would've helped is if the people behind the show hadn't initially announced it as a Dinobot style arc. They said that before we even knew Dreadwing was gonna be in the show, which made everyone start thinking the arc would belong to Breakdown. Then everyone started complaining because they had started reading too much into everything he did and convinced themselves he was a good person at spark, only for his redemption to never happen. They set up a lot of stuff that never played out with Breakdown, but him becoming an Autobot wasn't one of them.
     
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  16. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    You're response doesn't really relate to my comment and is far more connected to what Mako Crab said. It's best to manage expectations regardless of what you hear. Interviews are marketing their purpose is to say things that will get the audiences attention and get them to watch. Marketing is often bits of a lie mixed with bits of truth, saying what you know will get audiences attention. It's best to not take what they say literally.
     
  17. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's just something I'm throwing into the Dreadwing discussion, which you were still involving Dinobot in. IMO, people shouldn't have to manage their expectations. The people making the show shouldn't be deceitful. That said, I do think the fandom is still in the wrong here. Dreadwing's story arc is similar to Dinobots. It's about someone who starts as a villain figuring out his loyalties and his place in the universe. That's very similar, so it's understandable the writers and/or producers would make the comparison. That shouldn't have caused people to assume things would play out exactly like they did with Dinobot. As for Breakdown, that's still on the fandom, but it was also pretty stupid for that season two arc to have been announced before the first season had even finished.
     
  18. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Not safe for nought to three sad onions

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    The thing with Breakdown, though, is that after the whole 'announcement' of the Dinobot arc, the show outright seemed to be trying to mold Breakdown into that role. His whole 'honor' thing only reinforced that perception, as was possibly the entire meaning behind the one episode where he's captured by MECH and Bulkhead saves him. In fact, more than the whole 'is he the Dinobot expy' issue, what the show truly failed to explain was the existing animosity between Bulkhead and Breakdown, established as being a long standing rivalry the moment they appear in the same place together. It was enough to convince Bulkhead to go and rescue Breakdown - something completely at odds in behavior for a guy who outright ripped out an enemy's guts in the third episode when a shot to the head would have been a more dignified kill - but after that the closest thing to any resolution to how these two know each other is only partial on Breakdown's side...through the Arms Micron toy's bio.
    What's missing is why Bulkhead ultimately wanted to save Breakdown, because while the argument could be made it was just to keep him out of MECH's clutches...the plot U-Turned and literally handed Breakdown's corpse to MECH anyway later on and thus completely defeating any long-term plot reasons in that respect. Additionally, despite the existing relationship that existed between them as enemies/rivals, Bulkhead doesn't seem to give a shit when he learns Breakdown is dead or being used as corpse armor (been a while since I saw that stupid episode, though, could be wrong on the latter). And then Silasdown only showed up twice, his first appearance ending with his presumed death, and then his second appearance being so non-specifically relevant to either Silas or Breakdown beyond rubbing salt in the wound left from Airachnid getting another cheap kill on the same body. The second time could have just been some hapless generic vehicon like every other infected vehicon that is in that episode, the only thing that happens is pretty much writing out Airachnid because the writers didn't have the balls to kill their Mary Sue, so there wasn't even any real payoff to Breakdown's entire existence as established when he first appeared in the show except for the Dinobot-esque concept of honor and loyalty questioning. Which Dreadwing immediately took over full time following Breakdown's death so even that remains in question as to how unique that role was in the show, as opposed to so non-character-specific that they swapped characters and nobody seemed to even bat an eye.
     
  19. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Well-Known Member

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    Oh I completely agree that Breakdown's character had things set up that went nowhere. In fact, I said as much myself. I simply don't think the writers were ever even toying with the idea of him becoming an Autobot. Rather, that he was going to be pulled between his loyalty to Megatron and his dept to Starscream. Then they decided that Starscream's path into humiliation would not include him trying and failing to lead an army against Megatron, because for whatever reason, they decided his character should be entirely focused on comic relief, leaving Breakdown's dept forgotten.

    Edit: As for his backstory, that was something they should've expanded upon, but sadly I don't know if they ever had any plans for it. I think most of the time they made things up as they went along and never really gave any though on what Bulkhead and Breakdown's pasts would be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  20. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    The showrunners running their mouths outside of the show is a failing of the showrunnwers, but not of the show. I didn't follow or look into any of what they were saying during the show's run, and I was able to enjoy the series immensely. The two might be related.
     
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