TF The Movie '86 question..

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Sunstorm9119, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. Sunstorm9119

    Sunstorm9119 RC 1136

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,951
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Interlachen Florida
    Likes:
    +2
    Ebay:
    So I was watching my 20th anniversary dvd today, and in the interviews with the makers they said at the end that if they could do it all again, they wouldn't kill Prime.

    So, I was wondering:

    Would the movie be as good as it is without the death of Optimus?

    I know just about all the deaths were just to make room for more toys, but could they tell as good a story if he didn't die?

    IMHO, I think it loses something if Prime lives....

    Opinions??
     
  2. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Posts:
    7,925
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +0
    The film would have been a lot better. It wouldn't have the moral of "it doesn't matter how bad you screw up, a glowing MacGuffin will solve all your problems" which can only be an improvement.
     
  3. seeker311

    seeker311 The Collector

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Posts:
    9,188
    News Credits:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +28
    They said they wouldnt have done it because of the reaction they got from fans at that time, not necessarily because of the flow of the movie. I think it would have been need to see him at neat death but survive to destroy Unicron instead of HotRod.
     
  4. Max-prime

    Max-prime Supreme-Commander

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Posts:
    1,326
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +1
    it would have been interesting none the less for the rest of G1 .... Primes death caused alot of fans at the time to leave the series and by the time they brought him back it was a little late to save G1.
     
  5. Velcrohead

    Velcrohead Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Posts:
    1,307
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +0
    Yeah, they shouldn't have offed Prime, but I would hate for them to have done it like they did with Duke in GI Joe the Movie, with the whole "he's in a coma line" that they looped in after the furor of Prime's death.
     
  6. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Posts:
    35,576
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    317
    Likes:
    +34
    Facebook:
    Instagram:
    I'd have had Prime wounded and in a CR chamber dealy for a while, like Velcrohead suggested. Then at the end Rodimus Prime goes to return the Matrix, but Optimus tells him to keep it and that he has proven himself a true Autobot hero.

    Then Season 3 could have been more "Rodimus Prime learning from Optimus Prime" although we'd have been deprived of the totally awesome Dark Awakening.
     
  7. Sunstorm9119

    Sunstorm9119 RC 1136

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,951
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Interlachen Florida
    Likes:
    +2
    Ebay:
    I'm aware of that, I just wondered how it would have turned out had Prime not died. Story aside, would we still be talking about it 20 years later if they hadn't taken the (then) radical step of killing Optimus Prime?
     
  8. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Posts:
    1,694
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +3
    I believe so - the radical step wasnt necessarily in killing Prime - even though that was the most radical step to take - they had already broken the mold by killing of a dozen other characters, which was unheard of at the time. So, IMO killing prime was not necessary in making the movie live on for 20 years - in fact we may still be looking at a g1 storyline had they not killled off prime and all of the fans
     
  9. Incepticon

    Incepticon Double Agent

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Posts:
    11,265
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +125
    If they didn't kill him, they probably would have reinvented/upgraded him similar to what happened with Megatron being turned into Galvatron. Being that whole point of the movie was to wipe out the 84/85 cast so as to transition into the new 'futuristic' toy series, they likely would have had him start combining with his trailer ala Powermaster Prime or completely rebuilt him from the ground up.

    I don't think it would have made the movie better or worse - it just would have been different... and obviously affect some of the post-movie character/toy output.
     
  10. Max-prime

    Max-prime Supreme-Commander

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Posts:
    1,326
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +1
    I think if they would have upgraded prime into rodimus prime the series could have carried alot better than having rodimus prime going threw the growing pains for an entire season that ended with Optimus having to come back anyways and pretty much ending the series. I know when I first say the movie back in '88 I was really kind of mad not that prime died but that Megatron got upgraded and prime just died.
     
  11. The Madness

    The Madness News Credits: -13

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2003
    Posts:
    1,271
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +10
    Prime had to die. I personally feel TF cartoon would have faded into obscurity well before Rebirth if it kept showing more of the same. For the first 2 seasons of the Transformers, Prime was the magic MacGuffin that solved all the Autobots problems.

    True, they could have sent him on a mission in the far reaches of space, or changed him somewhat to mix things up, but he would never have achieved that legendary status without his demise and sacrifice (he'd just be Mr perfect, still hanging around).

    Sometimes I think Prime was many fans first witness of a sacrificial hero, which is why some still mourn and lament his death all these years later. (In other words, why they still care about a cartoon character.)

    IMO the movie was the first time their war started to look remotely like a conflict with consequence, and less like a regular water-pistol fight. I wouldn't want to lose that investment just because some people were sensitive as children and couldn't comprehend that even the good die.
     
  12. Motor_Master

    Motor_Master Lets the balls touch TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2002
    Posts:
    11,561
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Likes:
    +22
    For me what would have been interesting was instead of Ultra Magnus, it was Prime in an armor suit/repair chamber, to upgrade/repair Optimus after his epic battle with Megatron, which would also have fully leveraged the Powered convoy idea from the Diaclone line.

    I think you're right that Prime living takes something away from the movie, but at the same time it would have been a good way to preserve the character, but not toy.
     
  13. Voiceroy

    Voiceroy Trans-fo-mahs!

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Posts:
    3,278
    News Credits:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +15
    ^ This.

    From that perspective, in the movie conclusion the power of the Matrix could have been used to revive/reformat Prime (Prime could've used a cool upgrade anyway), and they could have also introduced the concept for what would become Powermaster technology which Prime needs in order to sustain him and as an alternative power source for their ever-shrinking fuel reserves.

    At the end of the movie, Prime leaves Rodimus in command on Earth while he takes a select group of Autobots (WRECKERS!) to hunt down the remaining Decepticons while on a quest for components needed for Powermaster technology and a missing team of scientists who created it.

    Then they would have had two separate story arcs following the movie, with a lot more possibilities for introducing new characters (i.e. "toys"), new worlds, and a much greater element of action/adventure.

    And even with Prime still alive, they could've done a special miniseries where Prime did actually die involving 3-5 episodes to tell the "Dark Awakening" tale and combine it with "The Return of Optimus Prime" story too.

    But this is all in hindsight, unfortunately. Looking back, it's easier to rewrite the past over what was at that time the solution of the moment. And once again, it all comes down to Hasbro's "out with the old, in with the new" idea the entire movie was based on. In their haste to kill off an icon to introduce a new leader and toyline, it didn't occur to them that it might be a bad idea.

    But having two separate storylines/adventures following the movie definitely would've opened up a whole huge world of possibilities for the series and the toyline too. Who knows... it might have even helped the series last well beyond the rushed Rebirth so-called "conclusion" and maybe even extended the series 2-3 more seasons.

    I like that idea as well. A combo of both ideas actually would've been fantastic direction for both the movie and the series that followed.
     
  14. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Posts:
    14,687
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +39
    At least Optimus got his chance to use the Matrix to destroy Unicron in the Marvels comics. Okay, he still died from doing that, but then he came back via Hi-Q, so that's okay. And then died again in G2 and was brought back again. Wonder how the Hi-Q part of him felt about that.
     
  15. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Posts:
    7,925
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +0
    I think Hi-Q felt forgotten by both Prime and Furman.
     
  16. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Posts:
    14,687
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +39
    Hi-Q: I'm in ur Optimuzez, bein ignord an forgotn.
     
  17. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Posts:
    2,887
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +1
    No. Prime's death and Starscream's death were the only ones that were right. Both deaths are perfect masterpieces. Prime dies after running through a dozen Decepticons single handed, killing their leader, and appointing an heir. YES, as a kid I cried, but in retrospect it was perfection. Starscream as well.

    The problem with the series was that the movie had TO drastic an effect on the cartoon. I didn't see the movie till after the 3rd season started, so I thought, what happened?Where is everyone?

    Kids were confused by this and lost interest when NOONE they knew or recognized was there. No Prime, No Megs, No Ironhide, No Starscream, no Prowl, no Soundwave, No Devastator. If you saw Soundwave or the Constructicons, it was in the background and barely noticeable.

    If they were going to kill Prime and Starscream in the movie, that should have been it from the main cast. Then the other characters could have explained, or served as a link. Galvatron could have been explained as well. They could have killed lesser characters, your Warpath's, Seaspray's, Powerglides, so there would have been the shock factor and seriousness, but it would have left recognizable characters.

    And honestly, the best part of the movie is the first 20-30 minutes, after Starscream dies, it's all downhill. I still love the movie, but I think they're taking a cop out, because killing Prime was the least of the movie, and subsequent cartoon series's problems.
     
  18. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Posts:
    7,925
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Likes:
    +0
    I don't think it's even so much that so many characters were killed, it's that no one seemed to give a damn. "Prime, Prowl, Ironhide, Ratchet and so many others are dead. But don't despair, fellow Autobots! I, Rodimus Prime, am in shops no- I mean, am here to lead you! With my friends, available from all good toy stor- er... with my friends to fight the evil Decepticons!" Yeah, I know the whole show was a toy commercial, but it would have been nice to have at least an episode with the Season 1 and 2 survivors dealing with the events of the movie before we moved on to selling the new stuff.

    Hi-Q: I can haz menshun in G2?
    Furman: GTFO
     
  19. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Posts:
    6,774
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Likes:
    +3
    QFT. The 86 Movie was the start of the end of G1, it just took a little longer in Japan and Takara introduced Star Convoy too late as well.
     
  20. Sunstorm9119

    Sunstorm9119 RC 1136

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,951
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Interlachen Florida
    Likes:
    +2
    Ebay:
    I think the most interesting thing about Prime plowing through the whole Decepticon army to fight Megatron is this: after all the talking, all the a$$ whuppin'...Megatron wins.

    I know some will disagree with this, but look at it objectively. Prime died, Megatron didn't. He was still ALIVE when he was reformatted into Galvatron the unstable.And Optimus was still dead. That's the part of the movie that still sticks with me...

    Of course, I like to see the good guys get the slag kicked outta them every now and then. I think it is intellectually more honest that way. In real life, the good guys DON'T always win at the last minute.
     

Share This Page