ok, first i will flat out state my positions on the current series. I grew up in the 80's so universe 2.0 right now is great for me. I love the original series and wish they could refresh it for the current generation to see what we enjoyed about it so much. The live action Tf movie (cause it wasn't the first) was good, but I felt it lacking in certain areas. This next one, I have a problem with Jetfire with a cane. I can't wrap my mind around why a robot needs a cane when they can get repaired and be 100% again. As far as animated, I like when they focus on the tf's and let the humans fall to the side. I'm not a big fan of the "superpowers" some of them have, but upon watching some G1 stuff and thinking a bit, I remembered some of them had powers too.

Ok, as I've said before, far be it for me to take away from what everyone enjoys. If I don't like it, who cares. I just won't buy that figure/line. I wasn't a big BW fan, but that came from a misunderstanding on my part that they weren't really TF's.

Now on to the point, we all need to understand that though we may not like a certain line/continuity, that fans who do are still very important to us. They are the reason we still have TF's around. Their interest or even obesession if it goes that far, keeps our line going. Without them, the interest would die and so would our beloved toy/cartoon line. I may not like the new movie toys, but I damn sure know that all the people who will get them and love them are the reason that afterword I will have a chance to have a series that I could love and more great toys to buy. So, feel free to criticize away on whatever you don't like, but try to keep it off the fans of those series.

 

I more or less skimmed through this entire topic, but I know what was said because it's the same thing that always gets said in these sorts of topics.

Bottom line is, human nature is to always focus on the negative. To tear down, criticize and pick apart. This doesn't even have anything to do with Transformers in general, it's just how people work. The negative always brings in more attention then the positive, the failure always brings in more criticism then the success. When something goes right, everyone will cheer and move on. When things go wrong, you’ll have hundreds of different people picking apart every little aspect of the situation pointing out it’s faults until the end of time. That’s just how things work. No one cares when something good happens, it has no overt, lingering effect. But when a negative situation arises, everyone is suddenly an expert and they all have their own opinions on the matter.

Hell, even this very topic is an example of that phenomenon. The fact that you call out about how so many people “hate” this fandom or aspects of it, saying that it seems more “fans” actually “hate” transformers then like them. Well I can assure you that’s just not true. It’s just that on average, a negative voice is always far louder then a positive one. You could have fifty people come in and say something short and positive, and all it takes is one loud mouthed negative poster to undo all of that agreement. This entire forum is filled to the brim with people who love and enjoy all aspects of this fandom, and yet they’re not the ones who get the attention. It’s those who hate and nit pick and attack things other people like that draw the focus to themselves and their views. Because it’s very easy to agree with the majority while those who go against always stand out more.

In the end, there are certainly not more people who dislike this fandom then those who enjoy it, but it’s just human nature for us to focus on those who hate then those who love. And this topic is just another in a long list of examples that highlight that sad fact of life.

 

Part of it is just something you have to deal as a part of fandom and it's not something that is just a Transformers only problem. I loved the GI Joe 8" Sigma Six figures, but to talk about them with other fans you just had to get used to some jack ass coming along and calling it Sigma Sucks. I thought Spider Man 2 was an excellent film for getting the villains role just right but some smuck's childhood was raped or whatever because they went with the Ultimate Universe organic web shooters rather than the Spider Man and his Amazing Friends web shooters that Parker built.

I think stuff like the AIG mess showed us that when people feel helpless about something then they are going to rant and rave about it because that's really the only option for letting your frustration out.

If you are an Animated fan it doesn't matter how much you love Animated there isn't one darn thing you can do about what Hasbro or Cartoon Network will do about the show. We can't control if it gets green lit for more seasons and we don't get any say about what time slot it will get.

No matter how much you love the Universe line as fans we don't really have a say as to what Hasbro will make. We can make suggestions about what we'd like to see but in the end it's totally 100% up to Hasbro not us.

Don't like something about the movies, once again too bad we don't have any control.

So people are going to rant and rave because there isn't anything they can do about any of it. As about the only Transformers thing left standing the movie is going to have a nice big bulls eye on it so people will blame not getting cartoons or not getting toys on the movie. People are just naturally going to be upset if they see what they don't like being a feast while what they do like has become a famine.

If Bay's vision of Transformers isn't your thing then yea right now things look rather bleak because that's all we are seeing right now. Once we get word about the future of the cartoon series and the future of the other toy lines things should get a bit better then. Of course I'm sure we will find something else to bitch about then because that's fans for you.

 

There's a whole lotta sense flying around this thread, not just from SPLIT LIP, but Feralstorm and Kickback too.

I do wonder sometimes why a board full of people who self-identify as fans of the same franchise feel the need to argue amongst themselves so persistently and viciously, but when you think about it, being a "fellow Transformers fan" isn't actually much of a guarantee of common ground at all. This isn't a series like Lost or Harry Potter, where at the end of the day everyone's there because they're enjoying the same thing for broadly the same reasons; Transformers is a 25-year-old franchise that has been through a vast number of wildly different, often barely reconcilable incarnations, and in doing so has attracted an equally disparate and fragmented fanbase. You've got nostalgic Reaganite thirtysomethings looking to relive their childhoods. You've got Japanese mech-anime fans looking for the hot new robot collectible. You've got popcorn junkies looking for the next Michael Bay adrenaline fix. You've got kids after Saturday morning fun. You've got fans of car toys, fans of animal toys and fans of robot toys, comic fans, movie fans, and cartoon fans, action fans, sci-fi fans and comedy fans, boys and girls, kids and adults...and we're all slapped with a badge saying "TRANSFORMERS FAN", placed in the same enclosure and expected to get along.

Does that make it a hard fanbase to live with sometimes? Yes, of course; the fact that pretty much everyone is pulling in a different direction means that actual consensus/harmony amongst Transformers fans is more or less impossible, which in turn is going to lead to conflict and dissent. It comes with the territory of having such a multi-faceted franchise that is all things to all people, that provides something for everybody to enjoy...and something for everybody to hate. And as much as in-fighting and flamewars and the pointless sniping annoy me sometimes, it's that diversity that I love about Transformers; in the final reckoning, I wouldn't have it any other way.  

 

Every fandom is incredibly fickle and negative. As someone who's been on Disney park fan communities for almost six years, they call out "RUINED FOREVER" as much as Transformers or Star Wars fans do.

 

I agree also. I love everything that is transformers and really hate posting on here sometimes because someone is just looking out for a fight and really has nonthing to do with transformers they are just hateful ppl. I am glad they have been around for 25yrs and hope they stay around 25 more. And there is alot of bitching about the new botcon set that if you hate it fine then dont get it but dont post everyday that you hate it. It makes no sense to bitch about it and it usally wont change someones mind about it either they will get it or they wont. Stop crying do some push-ups.

 

We don't allow anyone else an opinion.
We tell them that they are wrong to have their opinion.
Or, we tell them that they are stating their opinion incorrectly.

Is it any wonder why there are problems?

 

Oh, I know, but I was just saying as far as TFs go. (since I'm primarily a TF fan and don't actually consider myself part of any other fandom, though I collect other stuff)

Kickback's post pretty much sums up my feelings in a better written way. What I do like is that he expressed both his positive and negative views on the situation in a non-blatant, non-demeaning way, which is a perfect example of one of the points I was getting at.

 

That's a beautiful attitude to have, Drake, and I totally agree with it.

And if you really can't stand someone who persists in a section about something you love, don't hate them and add to the negativity, put 'em on the Ignore list.

--Moony

 

I understand what's being said here. We are all here because we love Transformers -- either as a whole or in part -- and there's more than unites us than divides us. I also agree with the fact that human nature is such that we seem incapable of discussing that which brings us together. (I was at a symposium yesterday where the argument was made that it is redundant to discuss unifying factors.) We pick out division and emphasise it. This always happens. As for me, I love Transformers. I have the G1 and Japanese series on DVD. I have toys from numerous lines ranging from G1 to Energon to the Movies. I am not keen on the Animated style of toys -- with the exception of Shadow Blade Megatron who I really want. I see no reason to criticise fans of the Animated style and series. If that's what you like that's what you like. I like the Movie's style and I know that isn't to everyone's tastes.

And so, I believe that some division is necessary and is to be expected. In a franchise as diverse as the Transformersd one, it is only to be expected. However, I do not see the necessity of being nasty and unpleasant to those among us whose tastes are different to our own. There's no point or need for such behaviour. In the words of Dr Hannibal Lecter: "Discourtesy is unspeakably ugly to me."

 

I don't notice negative opinions anymore. Maybe I've just grown so use to seeing them on the internet that I have become numb to them. Nevertheless, if they bother any one person THAT much, then perhaps, that person needs to step back and take a breath to relieve themselves. I dunno, I come here everyday and they don't bother me at all. Ultimately, this thread will become nothing more than a bitchfest or some fanboy argument. It's the nature of the beast.

 

Perception is a funny thing.
For emphasis I will echo the statements regarding "loudest voices"

People who are impassioned negatively will be more inspired to post. People who are content will stay relatively quiet.

This board requires a certain amount of conflict to stay active, and this can skew people's perspectives as contribution is not mandatory. Yes, we all get tired of the same arguments forever looping. But then someone turns it up a notch, or newer members ignite the flames. And this is what keeps people motivated to post on slow news days.

Like many people, when I see something I like, I don't comment. Why? at least 200 people have already expressed what I feel about it, so I have nothing to contribute. But if someone posts something I strongly disagree with or dislike, I may post a response, regardless if its already been covered, just to add weight and support to the counter/ argument.

An apt example is the tendency for some of the OP posts to be as negative as the posts he dislikes, just directed at a different target. While I understand your frustration Split Lip, and I'm sure many other people do too, I realize that such posts are your contribution to the dynamo of this community. If you weren't angry at the fandom, we would be missing this and many other dramatic discussions.  

Likewise the same can be said for Bay haters, Animated haters, Hasbro Haters, or BeastMachines haters. They keep the pot stirring, but need to be reminded not to be too serious.
If they're just anti-social spammers, the mods will take care of it. If they're passionate about hating elements of Transformers because of their love of other elements, make them think and argue their points rather than exacerbate their frustration that no one cares for their conception of the property.

Yes, we suffer from an over-developed sense of entitlement, and that may manifest as hyperbolic drama, but why should we take it personally?
Its probably more of a reflection on 'sensationalist' society than anything else.

All I worry about is people taking these exchanges too seriously. A lot of people consider themselves quite invested in this community, and forget how to chill when talking about a hobby, whether they be complaining about the property, or the fans.

 

I think some people have read too much into what I've said, or just misunderstood me entirely, since most of you are going "oh, well this guy's obviously just complaining about complaining, he should just chill out, dood." I'm not so much bothered by the complaining, (I mean, it's annoying, but I'm not obsessed) I just wanted to point out the funny (not humourous funny, odd funny) thing that I see in that most fans spend more time dissing Transformers than saying they like them, that's it.

That's what I usually do. (I hope there isn't a limit to it) But I don't want to just ignore everybody since there are some nice people here who just say not nice things.

I guess this seems to be it. People just don't bother posting nice stuff, but when they see something they don't like, they have to post it so that EVERYBODY can see. In fact, you may have hit the nail on the head.

So, you rummaged through my posts just for that? Fine, I do sometimes post negative stuff. I try not to, but it's hard when that's pretty much what everybody does. I mean, there's certain things I don't like, but I don't post in every thread arnting on them.

Also, sorry for bisecting your post, I just wanted to adress those two parts.

 

i agree with you SPLIT LIP, just wait.... people are complaining about a lot of things right now, just because of a first glance...
examples:
1. ROTF devs is a piece of crap
Later people will probably say how great it is be =cause they were "forced" to get it.... or at least, that's what allways happens to me and my friends.
2. The wheels for feet or foot is soo stupid(ROTF)
MAybe when people se it on the big screen they'll say how awsome it was and they loved the idea... although i personally dislike the idea.
3. The animated big chin thing is soo stupid...
Just live with it...

I can probablt think of a million other solutions that have happened to me and my nerdish friends, but nobody wants to hear me rant onandonandonandon...

 

It's because we care.
And no, I aint being flippant this time either.
We have standards... and I think on more than 1 occasion that our complaining has been heard and the product improved because of it.

In reality, how much would we love something if we had no negative feedback, and blindly accepted whatever came our way? Would quality increase, or decrease?

 

You left out the part where they badmouth the people who aren't like this, themselves. I've seen plenty of times where someone says that those of us who like every version of Transformers aren't a true fan. Seriously, what's up with that?

 

It's not just them, you know... For example, exactly who coined the phrase, "geewunner?"

 

i can see a lot of the hate posts, and i might have made a couple here and there towards the new devastator, but that being said, there are some people that have been asked why they even bother to post in the animated section when we can practically read their posts without looking at them. the movie is going to give me a much needed break from new stuff coming out, and i'm not going into every movie toy post and saying OMG this sux, die bay, because i enjoyed the first movie and will undoubtedly enjoy the second, toys excluded lol,
it would be nice if there wasn't so much flaming though, i've gotten called a geewunner before and i look at my collection, maybe 10% of it is g1 figures, judging the product, fine, but don't judge people. plain and simple