T:RotF - What YOU noticed: good & bad.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by SOUNDCASTER, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. SOUNDCASTER

    SOUNDCASTER CreativeIntelligenceAgent

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    Hey fellow transfans. It's been a while since I last posted so I decided to make a thread for people who wanted to share the plot points and holes that others may have missed.

    So why this topic? I've read a bunch of threads and I still don't see exactly what you all see. I understood the plot. I got the jokes(sigh). I noticed what they got wrong, but I noticed a lot of what they got right too.

    What exactly are these plot holes I hear so much of? How does the story drag on after the forest scene? Jokes were incessant, yeah, but the movie lacking plot? What did they mention and then ignored? If you could put something up that has an explanation I would be grateful.

    I liked the film. We can't all say that. Not ever. No film ever had 100% approval from mankind much less by the fans of that story.

    With that said... THIS IS NOT A FILM BASH THREAD--- EQUAL OPINIONS PLEASE--- GIVE CONCISE EXPLANATIONS FOR WHAT YOU SAW IN THE FILM.

    AND, if you have something you want to point out that's cool that you don't think others have noticed, you are more than welcome to mention them too. Please, I would like this to be more for everyone's enjoyment.

    Ask a question. Post an answer. Point out a plot hole. Point out a moment of complex interest. But please: GIVE AN EXPLANATION, PICTURE OR EXAMPLE.

    If we don't see what you see, how can we understand what's being said?

    Oh, and please have fun! :thumbs2: 

    - SOUNDCASTER :dj 
     
  2. PrimePower04

    PrimePower04 I got the touch!

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    lets see...awesome visuals tons of fun...


    no character development..and way too much humor...especially perverted humor
     
  3. binglesbot

    binglesbot Well-Known Member

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    Among the things I found weird was that the US government wanted Autobot arms technology when it had a rail gun parked outside Egypt that could decimate a XXL giant robot. I think the Autobots should be taking notes from the US government instead. :) 
     
  4. MegaHavok

    MegaHavok Well-Known Member

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    Plot Holes?
    Well soundwave send protoforms/decepticons exactly where they need to be on numerous occasions. Ravage is sent to get the shard. Cons are sent to France to get the parents. Reinforcements are sent in to capture Sam in cairo. However after discovering where their dead leader is buried Soundwave sends the protoforms to a construction site to pick alt modes then makes them get on a boat and take a cruise to go resurrect their leader. Also how long does it take to cross the damn ocean.

    The deceptions need Sam because he touched a fragment of the all spark and can see things now. Megatron has a freaking allspark shard in his chest!!! It makes no sense that he cant interact with it or use it to access the information.

    The autobots send out an sos to the military and split in to two groups. one goes to think new york and the other i believe was Philadelphia. However, pretty much everybody except the arcee sisters are shown driving together and show up in the forest to save sam. So what was the 2nd objective?

    we see the military guys get on the plane to go back to base and the next time you see them they are flying over Egypt. Even if the pilots are in on it how the hell did two gigantic U.s. military jets take a transatlantic flight and nobody notices. For that matter how did the Nsa advisor not notice the flight took 3 times longer then it was supposed to?

    Jetfire was stranded on earth and stayed there till he ran out of energy and went into stasis lock even though he can travel to different planets using a spacebridge? Also I know the sr71 is getting old but it's only been around for what 30 years? So jetfire has been asleep for long and how the hell did he end up in the smithsonian.

    These are just off the top of my head with out flipping through the movie.
     
  5. mentat_emre

    mentat_emre Well-Known Member

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    ^this.
     
  6. NFossil

    NFossil Well-Known Member

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    Constructicons: Let's just assume they are not coming straight from space but were hiding on Earth like Sideways & Demolisher, and just happen to be near the burial site on the ship. Maybe they've just been hiding on ships that go near the region, waiting for an opportunity.

    The Allspark works in mysterious ways.

    Agree with the "two groups" stuff.

    NEST base is on the Indian Ocean.

    Agree with Jetfire stuff.

    Then my own:
    bad: close shaky shots, overwhelming cruelty from Autobots
    good: everything else.
     
  7. Razorwing

    Razorwing The Fallen Alternity.

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    The Bad :

    Longhaul doesn't speak or do anything. He just gets blown up.
    Sideswipe needs to do more melee killing.
    Twins went missing while fighting Devs.
    Would like to see more of Soundwave and Ravage.
     
  8. Zherbus

    Zherbus In Shogo Hasui, we trust.

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    That was done to initially get past the government perimeter around Megatron. It was clearly stated in the film that they had a pretty heavy guard on him. I didn't find that quite to be a 'plot hole'.

    They never said 'touching any allspark fragment = allspark possesses you', that piece happened to choose Sam to impart it all to. It didn't choose Megatron, nor did it choose Jetfire. Again, not really a plot hole as much as something not being spelled out clearly enough to some.

    That's not ringing a bell, so I'd have watch out for that next time I see it.

    It's not that nobody noticed, is that nobody in the government questioned a specialized government operation that's primary goal is to wipe out the threat that just revealed itself to the world. The NSA advisor wasn't very bright, nor experienced in traveling that way. Seems reasonable to me.

    It was never stated how far he could travel via Spacebridge. He was following orders to stay there, he ran out of energy (which Spacebridging tends to need), and 30 years ago settled on that mode and just sat there in a hanger collecting dust until he was cleaned off and shoved in a museum. How is that a plot hole?


    Good: Lots of robot action, nice Starscream and Megatron dialogue, Sideswipe was amazing, Prime and Bee kicked ass as always.

    Bad: Some animation got a little confusing, but it wasn't too bad. There needed to be more of a sense of dread in the last half of the movie, not a feeling like 'it's going to work itself out anyway'. I'd also have liked to see the human military wiped out much more easily to raise the ante of the Decepticon threat.
     
  9. MegaHavok

    MegaHavok Well-Known Member

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    Bay cant show the military loose cause he is in bed with them
     
  10. nintendocon

    nintendocon Autocon

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    Scalpel had like a german mad scientist voice which was funny.
     
  11. Mega-con

    Mega-con Autocon

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    I thought it was very ironic how Simmons tells Jetfire to hurry up with the story. Hahaha
     
  12. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus Your opinion was noted. Now get lost. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Let's see:

    The Good:
    • The Forest Fight - aka Prime kick's your behinds.
    • Bumblebee's fight with Ravage and Rampage.
    • Megatron and Starscream's interaction.
    • The Final Battle with Megatron and The Fallen.
    • Ravage in general. He was an awesome little stealth kitty of doom... until he got slaughtered by Bumblebee.
    • What little screen time Lennox and Epps got (they needed more darn it!).
    • Jetfire the crotchety old Cybertronian.
    • Sam's dad. He had some great lines and I loved how he was trying to keep it together at the beginning of the film when he was letting his boy go off to college, but how it all literally fell apart on him when he had to watch his boy run off into the middle of a war zone.
    • The Presidential liaison. I hated him so much I loved him... to quote Epps '...he's a real a-hole...'.
    • Soundwave. I think the role he had fit him and I really liked the voice for him as well. Sounded evil enough to me and, while I see it compared to Dr. Claw... it sounds different and sinister in comparison.
    • I also found Agent Simmons to once again be an enjoyable character (though I wasn't very fond of the arse shot that shall forever be burned into my retinas).
    • Scalpel/The Doctor was this awesome little German mad scientist. That was great!

    The Things That Make You Go 'Huh?':
    • How Prime couldn't take Megatron in the first movie, but could suddenly take Grindor, Starscream and Megatron in this one to the point where Megs had to kill Prime from behind.
    • How Megatron was all 'Master, Master' and groveling at The Fallen's feet when there was never any hint of that from the first movie.
    • Did anyone else notice that Mikaela's bike looked exactly like the Pink Arcee motorcycle? A dropped plot point possibly?

    Edit: It was recently brought to my attention by a friend that the issue with Prime's seeming jump in combat abilities may have had to do with the fact that they were fighting in the middle of nowhere this time and Prime didn't have to worry about potential human casualties like he may have during his fight in the first movie. In other words... it's possible that Prime may have held back for fear of human life before.

    The Bad:
    • The lowbrow humor.
    • Lots of gratuitous sexual shots
    • Dogs humping each other (this doesn't even fit with the lowbrow humor to me).
    • Excessive foul language.
    • Wheelie humping Mikaela.
    • Mikaela in general... just too much screen time.
    • The stark contrast between Sam's 'No sacrifice, no victory' to 'It's not my war'. Crybaby.
    • Jetfire's back story needed some better explanation to me personally.
    • The fact that most of the new Decepticons were cannon fodder.
    • The fact that every Autobot, new or old, that wasn't Prime, Bumblebee or The Twins got shafted in the character department.
    • Devastator... completely over hyped and very anti-climatic at the end of the day.
    • The Fallen... again, over hyped and didn't put much of a fight up at the end.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2009
  13. Yaujta

    Yaujta Not a Bear TFW2005 Supporter

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    Good:
    -More shots of actual Transformers doing Transformer things.
    -Better screen time for Megatron and Starscream to show their characters a bit more.
    -The bot-on-bot fight scenes were great, with the forest scene standing out in particular.
    -More robot dialog.

    Bad:
    -Unnecessary 'humor' (won't get in to it again)
    -Plot/story was very dis-jointed. Just seemed that they couldn't focus that well on one direction.
    -Character recycling. Screams LAZY.
    -Little to no character buildup.
    -Ratchet and Ironhide were background characters, Jolt was hardly present, Sideswipe had a brief moment of fun then drifted to the background, the twins got WAY too much screen time, Alice was pointless, Devastator was a wimp, Constructicons in general were pushovers
    -Decepticons were just plain weak. For the scourges of Cybertron, they sure fell quick to human weaponry.
    -Humans were too powerful against the Decepticons.
    -The Fallen was pretty much pointless and only there so Prime had somewone besides Megatron to beat up.

    There's more, but I'm sure others will fill in the blanks.
    I went in to this movie wanting to love every second of it. The first movie is one of my all time favorites as a fun action sci-fi flick.
    This movie left me wanting more and disappointed with what was presented. Don't get me wrong, because it was a fun movie in general, but I was just hoping for more substance.
     
  14. Deadend

    Deadend Overloaded Spark

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    __________________

    Good:
    Mikaela and her pet. Perfect excuse to explore the tech now in an 'autobot okayed' way. Especially since she has her own bike shop, and in theory could also work with the triplets once she enhances her bike from wheelie tech. Among much more potential than that. She could be our future Sari.

    Con's already on earth not being able to just atmospheric drop to any location. This was interesting to see them wait and rally up with ravage before going to retrieve megatron. Also soundwave seems to be too much of an asset for them to waste yet. Interesting adherence to strategy. The fallen's body poses many possibilities for galvatron too, including opening the door to reveal everything once megatron retrieves it, and merges with it. Soundwaves limited alt database also helps explain the duplicons, since he only has the alts previously scanned, that he's given to others for now. Heck one protoform at the ending battle didn't have an alt. He was just straight up from born to fighting, with no scan downloaded.

    The low energon the cons have, explains the duplicons, and even let's us know the war may be winding down soon for some downtime interaction, as megatron can finally take centerstage unobstructed in his leadership, since now it has been revealed why he took his military and went rogue. Finally he can have his birthright as the master of his army.
    Also poses the one main question. Why was it so important to keep the allspark on a desolate world, and who left it there? Why were the first bots taught how to repower it?
    Is cybertron really unicron that'll awaken now that the cube isn't keeping him satiated? What con's still exist on cybertron? Since we only saw the mars ship for now at least the cons have an OFF world nearby HQ with soundwave as a relay.

    Prime's past revealed to himself finally. So this won't need to be covered indepth in the future now, it's out of the way so we can bring in the personification of the other bots now. The twins also act as a gate for this. Now that they've been exposed to the public, their personalities can be used to convey the others as they interact in downtime. Like how BB was the mature mediator/veteran who kicked them out of the cave.

    The constructicons only called constructicons for now. Whether they are indeed devastator, one bot with multiple alts, or many bots has yet to be covered. His exact presence provides a conundrum for the autobots. Did they even know something like that existed? Apparently not from the twins perspective at least. Interesting to see that covered later. Awesome to not see them screw up from the first movies name. So devastator in movie 1 is still devastator.

    Scorponok's story wrapped up. Perfect win right there.

    Jetfire insinuates that his family line has been on earth since cave man days. His father was the first wheel. What does this mean about a scouting party that was here when dinosaurs roamed the earth? Jetfire also reveals he's from the first great war, before the data tracks were all erased when prime was hidden away.

    Navy getting wiped out by decepticons as they retrieve megatron. While no deaths were outright highlighted, casualties were pretty numerous on the human side. Just no explicit eviscerations.

    Many more details like the forest fight lack of human presence already pointed out, so much so I'll have to wait on the dvd to really break it down scene by scene.
    _____________________________

    the bad:
    The stall tactics. While they make sense and set the stage for TF3, the unauthorized politician blocks our viewage of the bots in down time. They have to stay hidden. This can be said about a good chunk of the parts of the movie I didn't like. Too many stall tactics to set up later plot points that block good personification right now.
    So while I wanted more personification especially the triplets, I can see why we didn't get it story centricly. Still annoying though.

    No Barricade?

    About the only thing I could think of that should be edited out, is the dogs humping. While it's funny, and does set up a scene or two, and even point out dominance and submission that's conveyed later with the fallen and megatron, it really serves no purpose but to be an ice breaker for the action.

    Fights need more slow mo, but the dialogue would suffer and it would extend the run time. So while the forest fight needs it, it also needs prime to be understood clearly. So this one's a give and take.
    ______________________________________________


    I'm not sure, I could really probably answer a lot of the questions from the movie itself, but have no idea what to cover that others didn't get. It all made sense to me. I especially enjoyed the more adult flavor this time around, and more Mikaela is not a bad thing. It was nice to see some bots acclimating to our culture faster, and Devastator's big brass ones were conveniently funny, if only balls by our perspective as biological beings. There's a ton of stuff I'd love to see them explore now with all these great doors open.

    Anyone get strong vibes of the G1 episode fire on the mountain? The entire final battle just screamed it to me. And is sam now matrix recognized? Since optimus is the last cybertron born prime, is sam the first human prime?

    The mikaela sam romance seems to be playing off as a way to keep him grounded, as a future dehumanizing event unfolds. He still has something on his brain so to speak.
     

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