Superman II

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Hotshotprime43, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. Hotshotprime43

    Hotshotprime43 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Posts:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +196
    People always hold Optimus Prime to super high standards that are ridiculous because with those huge morals he can't get anything done. Well people hold Superman to these high moral standards but remember in Superman II when he kills Zod after Zod loses his power? Well why don't people ever complain about this. I find it similar to Optimus killing Attinger.
     
  2. Omega Charge

    Omega Charge CHARGE ON

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Posts:
    6,522
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +565
    I think it'd be silly to get mad at Optimus for killing Attinger, no matter how great his morals are. If he hadn't done it, then Cade is dead. Optimus wouldn't have lived with that.
     
  3. Meta777

    Meta777 Dr Pepper Fan

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Posts:
    13,802
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +1,585
    Superman 2 did have a deleted scene where it was revealed the Kryptonians did survive and were taken into custody.

    That said, the fact it's a deleted scene seems a bit bizarre. You'd have thought letting the audience know Superman didn't just callously toss them into the void would be a priority.
     
  4. Goldenclaw55

    Goldenclaw55 Combaticon

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Posts:
    422
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Likes:
    +2
    I find it funny that people complain that superman
    snapped zod's neck in man of steel
    when in Superman II he killed Zod when Zod was defenseless.
     
  5. Hotshotprime43

    Hotshotprime43 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Posts:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +196
    This also. I was about to mention it but figure keep the conversation towards Transformers.
     
  6. Fitch

    Fitch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Posts:
    352
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    82
    Location:
    Pineville, WV
    Likes:
    +17
    Attinger wasn't a human, he was a monster that deserved to die.
     
  7. Hotshotprime43

    Hotshotprime43 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Posts:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +196
    +1
     
  8. Leather Elbows

    Leather Elbows Dooper

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Posts:
    882
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +4
    And in Man of Steel he straight up snaps Zod's neck.
     
  9. Hotshotprime43

    Hotshotprime43 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Posts:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +196
    because Zod was about to kill people.
     
  10. Goldenclaw55

    Goldenclaw55 Combaticon

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Posts:
    422
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Likes:
    +2
    We got a Superman thread in the movie discussion.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Jochimus

    Jochimus Sandwiches? Blimey, whatever did I give the wife?

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Posts:
    2,232
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +768
    I think it's more amusing that neither "Superman II" nor "Man of Steel" hold a candle to the Golden Age Superman of the original Siegel and Shuster comics, in terms of the blood on Superman's hands - back then the dude routinely tossed dictators and corrupt businessmen to their deaths, and stood back and watched crazed scientists and various terrorists either electrocute or gas themselves to death in their crazed bids to kill him instead (Even George Reeves' TV Superman from the '50s was shown in the early black & white seasons stranding criminals who'd discovered his secret identity on deserted islands or Arctic mountaintops until he could figure out "what to do with them" - in other words, deliberately leaving them to certain death).

    For me anyway, I've heard the "He Had No Choice!" and "He Was Pushed Too Far!" defenses countless times, except neither of those holds any water for me for the simple reason that I would think a sentient being such as Optimus would have been pushed past the Point of No Return about, oh, I dunno, a couple thousand years prior about the time dead Autobots started being strung up along the Cybertronian skylines...meaning Megatron should have been dead before the first movie even started.

    Plus I think Optimus would be a more interesting character in general if we got an honest hint of what kind of psychological effects that a war that lasts as long as theirs would have on him, combined with the trauma of being killed and brought back, and now the potential (squandered though it could quite possibly end up being) posed by this 'Creators' mumbo-jumbo - as opposed to him just announcing to his opponent precisely what body part he's going to take from them and growling it off without a thought with one sword-chop.

    Which is why part of me REALLY wants to see him fall from grace and become the villain of TF6. So my problem isn't that Bay, Krueger, etc. turned Optimus into a d***; it's that they've still failed to take it to its natural conclusion. But again, that's because I'm a sicko.
     
  12. Hotshotprime43

    Hotshotprime43 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Posts:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +196
    Optimus as the villain? Delete that post before someone decides to make it a reality!
     
  13. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Posts:
    21,936
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +1,490
    So you want a Cyclops, basically. I could dig it.
     
  14. Dark Jedi

    Dark Jedi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    2,640
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Location:
    Arlington Heights, IL
    Likes:
    +174
    Ebay:
    The point is that most of the population is brainwashed by American stereotypes of good vs evil when in reality there is no such thing. Sure you can bring up WWII and the Nazis but who was part of the Alliance? Josef Stalin an even bigger dictator and threat to western civilization. So really I don't understand this romanticized version of good and evil it just doesn't exist unless you are fighting for your very survival. Prime will do whatever it takes to win.
     
  15. LegendAntihero

    LegendAntihero Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Posts:
    14,164
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +15
    No one complained? I actually hated Zack Synder making him kill Zod in Man of Steel
     
  16. uruseiranma

    uruseiranma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Posts:
    2,388
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    237
    Likes:
    +242
    He had to: noone else was going to save the humans from their own stupidity:

    - alien spacecraft shows up, they just stop and stare.
    - buildings fall, they just stop and stare.
    - Ship terraforming near the Daily Planet? Perry and the others stop and stare, and then decide with the destruction less than a block away, THEN it's time to leave.

    Then again, one could make the assumption that Zod is killing out of pure revenge, whereas Clark is doing it out of some deep-seated need to save humanity.
     
  17. Goldenclaw55

    Goldenclaw55 Combaticon

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Posts:
    422
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Likes:
    +2
  18. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Posts:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +463
    ... Yeah, that scene does bother people.

    The truth is that Superman II, while full of greatness, has quite a bit of sloppiness born of several different creative visions.
     
  19. Omega Charge

    Omega Charge CHARGE ON

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Posts:
    6,522
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +565
    Heh, I liked him killing Zod (in Man of Steel). I had heard from many that it was so bad, then I watched it and thought it was a good scene, realistic, and great for the story.

    Strong morals doesn't equal never killing, unless your morals involve not having the authority to take another's life, no matter what threat they pose. If your morals involve any sort of utilitarianism or sense of "greater good" at all, then killing someone who will certainly kill others otherwise is the morally good decision.
     
  20. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Posts:
    4,178
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +463
    Also, it might be of note, that, despite what some of you might believe, there are levels of humanity in killings. And certainly varied levels of enjoyment. From disgust at the prospect to excitement and pleasure. And on top of all that, there's how the film views those actions and wants the audience to feel about them...

    There are a lot of factors preventing this from being a 1:1 analogy. A kill is not a kill- Context means everything.
     

Share This Page