Stuff I want cleared up/defined/explained

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Cheebs, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. Cheebs

    Cheebs Well-Known Member

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    I know this stuff never will be explained since TF is a kid's show and all, but damn it, I want an official word on it!


    *What is a Transformer's anatomy? We know they have sparks, brain things, and eyes. Beyond that... There have to be other organs! Machines need lubricants, cooling systems, filtration systems for the lubricating and cooling fluids, power supplies... What do they use for motion? Combustion motors? Electrical motors? Hydraulics? Some sort of banded synthetic muscle fiber? Do any of these motors create waste? Is there a central heart-like pump to move lubrication and cooling fluids? Many pumps for each extremity? Is the electrical power carried throughout their bodies as pure electricity or fuel to be used once it reaches the motor in question?

    I ask because I'm sick of the "living head" scenario. As it stands, a Transformer is just a head/brain driving an almost unrelated big robot. It's not interesting to have a character totally decapitated and continue living. It's even less interesting to just be able to stick the head back on and everything is fine again. They should be able to bleed to death. They should be able to die when a "vital organ" is obliterated. Cooling pump's blasted clean off your body? Prepare for overheating death. It also puts some rather stupid situations to rest for good. Prime gets cut into pieces by Megatron. He's nothing but a head while his body parts are made into alligators and security systems and whatnot. He's fine. Prime gets cut/shot in the chest, the same chest he doesn't even need to live, and he dies. Huh?




    Moving on, I want a retraction of the Transformers' ability to scan something. G1 had it right. You get a new body if your old one is destroyed. It's traumatic and horrific and not at all like just putting on a new outfit for the day.

    Why do I want this? Scanning removes everything that's meaningful about transformation in the first place! Why bother transforming between robot and car when you can scan a robot, be that for a while, scan a car, drive, recall your robot scan, then scan a boat... etc. The scanning totally trumps the more interesting transformation ability. Get rid of it. They can't be whatever they want. They have one body and they know how to turn it into one thing. Maybe by going to the gym (in a metaphorical sense) and working out, training, meditating, etc, they can over time mold their body through discipline into something else.
     
  2. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    I have to admit, I never dug the concept of the internal scanner. It doesn't make a lot of sense and to me, it takes away the concept of being a Transformer.
    On top of that, the energy required to fully scan a new vehicle mode, and then totally reconfigure your body to fit that mode must be immense, and should severely weaken the Transformer until they're able to recharge.
     
  3. DJ Soundwave

    DJ Soundwave Action Figure Master

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    first , they are more of a Nano Technologics system ....the best analogy , is to think about the Terminator aslong as there is a particular part of the Brain and a majority of the head functioning , it is still alive ........ if you have the imagination to vision what i'm saying...... ....and on top of that they are an Alien race , their technology is radically different so you shouldn't even try to compare them to our standart Tech.....



    And Second , the whole Scanning thing is just in the Movie and is the way that Hasbro is going to create an entirely new line of figures for us to buy ......... that and Scanning another vehicle to turn into mainly changes the outer shell of their bodies ....it would be alot more difficult to change their entire Robot form.
     
  4. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

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    cheebs! *waves* always nice to see your post man.

    I've never been bothered by the living head concept. I guess I'm just used to it since its been used forever. I rationalize it as the robots ability to reroute power source for the severed head to avoid brain circuit death. meanwhile a non maiming injury can cause death due to systems shock and total systems failure.

    I never dug the Alt mode scanning aspect myself and always required sustained suspension of belief for that part.
     
  5. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I don't mind their insane level of survivability. They're supposed to be badasses who survive war for millions of years. I always assumed it took catastrophic damage to kill them--anything short of that could be survived with stasis and repairs.

    The internal scanning...yeah, lame. Convenient story-telling, mebbe, but I don't care for it.
     
  6. Cheebs

    Cheebs Well-Known Member

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    *Waves back to KA* :) 
    Nano-tech sounds like a cool explanation... And it goes along with the mass-shifting and bend-stretch morphing that we see all the time. I like it.

    But I still want them to have organs and get injured just because that's more fun than "immortal/indestructible". :D 



    Not just the movie. Beast Wars, all of A/E/C, Animated, Hearts of Steel, (Haven't seen RID to chime in there). It seems to be the standard now.
     
  7. defstar

    defstar Autobot...

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    For the internal working I try not to over-think it...just cloud everything under the fact that the TF's "spark" controls everything via circuits/tubes including producing the needed lubricant...kind of like our bodies produce blood...and obviously the spark gets it power from doses of energon...

    As far as killing off a TF...once the Spark is destroyed they are dead imo...so if the body is gone but they save the spark and are able to place it into a new body the Transformer "lives" once again retaining all past memories...

    Scanning...why they don't keep doing it...well whether in a cartoon, movie, comic or whatever...it would be hard to keep up with who's who if they kept changing...so once a spark is placed into a body and an alternate form is scanned it should be locked in...

    These are just the way I see it...I know it does conflict with many scenes in all the past series...but it is what it is...
     
  8. DJ Soundwave

    DJ Soundwave Action Figure Master

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    Oh well Yeah , but they for the most part had to do that for upgrading reasons and for survival( especially in BW) ..... I thought you were just talking about Bumblebee scanning the Camero.... him scanning that was cool, but wasn't really essential........and as for RID , they didn't scan and change there alt modes.
     
  9. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    something that has always bugged me is that when a transformer is damaged in comics or TV, they often expose parts of their inner machinery with no consideration at all given to their transformation mechanisms or spaces that would have to be hollow for other parts to store away in.
     
  10. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    See, I always figured that was 'cause stuff moved around rather than used hollow spaces.

    Sorta like one of those sliding panel puzzles with a single open square.
     
  11. Ramrider

    Ramrider TF Art Lad

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    If anything, Prme's death in the '86 movie was the lame version. As Squirrelcar says, Cybertronian physiology is hardy stuff - if they were as easy to kill as Prime would have us believe, then frankly most of 'em wouldn't have survived a fraction as long as they have - you could guarantee we'd never have met Wheeljack..! I imagine they probably have a fair few redundant systems and safety backups to keep them going in case of damage - we know Getaway is a particularly extreme case of this. However it's not unreasonable to surmise that some kind of sudden, traumatic damage would cause some kind of system shock.

    As for the scanning, yeah, I think it's pretty poor showing having them able to scan and reformat on a whim. I can understand reconfiguring when you adjourn to a new planet, but I can reconcile this by imagining it happening at their home base or on a ship, in something akin to CR chambers, and over a considerable time period. Alternatively, in more extreme cases (as Dreamwave implied was the case with Megatron and several Decepticons), through actual physical 'surgery'. But as it's done in the movie, it's basically just morphing, and just smacks of a lazy plot device. As Cheebs pointed out, if they could do that from the get-go, then surely they'd be switching modes left, right and centre?

    However, just to clear something up:

    Not true - they've been doing it since Armada, at least - although they didn't even copy the designs they scanned, they just seemed to take them as ideas and made up their own reformat modes...
     
  12. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Reformed Geewunner

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    I agree with you man, especially about the scanning ability mainly from the 07 movie. I know it was just a plot device to turn the movie into a camero commercial, but still it never did sit right with me and never will. At least in the other series it was like they had to choose a form based on their body type or other data and never changed (excluding quantum surges, powerups and so forth of course).
     
  13. Gestalts Vault

    Gestalts Vault Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't the head be where the "data" is stored? Just a massive storage drive & a video/audio processor. Don't think they smell/taste.
    I always wondered how they could have all the car parts they have, and still have room for limbs and all mechanisms required to transform.
     
  14. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    To answer your first question: There's no one answer for that. Considering there are SOOOOOOOO many different continuitys and series. As far as Animated is concerned, as long as all the life-support systems are functioning or still online, the robot lives. Megatron's head was jolted back to life by the Allspark, and so that kept him alive until his body was restored. As with Bulkhead, he remained alive as long as his body was online and his spark existed.

    BW was very comedic with so of it's character defeats. Waspinator often got blown to smitherines. This all can be explained by the fact that it is a cartoon and thus these are just cartoony effects for humour. Nobody ever questions how Daffy Duck can get squished flat and not die. Settled? Good.

    On to your second question. I think it was only Beast Wars that really portrayed scanning and replication as a time-consuming and power consuming matter. Since all the characters needed at least a minute or so to scan and replicate their bodies safely. Though when you think about it, willy-nilly scanning is the only practical way to remain as "robots in disguise" since a lengthy scanning process would be almost redundant in modern times.
    I must've imagined the ep where all the TFs just randomly got vehicle modes after crashing despite most of them just being knocked out. (Skywarp was missing an arm, but still) Last I checked, scanning was something Tfs did because Hasbro wanted to sell more toys. Isn't that what Transformers is all about?

    Really, you have to know where to draw the line on the realism. People take some of this stuff far, far too seriously. Like someone said, what about the vehicle modes? They can't possibly have all those robot and car bits compacted into their bodies like that.

    All in all, it's just a cartoon, dude. You can't blame Hasbro for not having a bloody excuse for every single little inconsistancy. Be thankful they at least try to make it as "real" as they can and just enjoy it for what it is. A Cartoon.

    Except for the movie, which is a movie, but they follow roughly the same guidlines. But seriously, would you rather watch robots sit around and undergo a lengthy reformatting process for like five minutes of the movie in addition to the amount of human screen time we got? I didn't think so. Explaining things like that is boring, and you never want a movie to be boring.

    This is my favourite answer, because it sums up everything perfectly. They are aliens. It's actually a good thing that we don't understand them perfectly, otherwise they wouldn't seem as technologicaly advanced which would take away from the whole "super advanced giant alien-robots" appeal.
     
  15. Wingwolf77

    Wingwolf77 Decepticon Dark lord

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    in G1 it appeared that they did not have a choice. I like the idea that they get to a new planet and the ships computer finds things to hide as that fit the transformer.
    As for the 'real' car parts, I have always thought of it as not real parts. That under close inspection that it would not hold up. But at 1st glance it looks right. And under parts that you can't see its just Cybertronian stuff.
    Remember they don't become Cars. They disguise as them
     
  16. sunnyswipe

    sunnyswipe autobot

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    correct me if im wrong, but if a 'bot can scan ANY alt mode- couldnt they scan ANOTHER transformers robot mode?
    im not to up-to-date on bw, but how did primal&co scan alt modes when the later maximals/preds need a stasis-pod to reformat?
     
  17. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    They could in theory, but it wouldn't be practical and there could be side-effects. BW taught us that TFs inherit (sp?) the nature of there Alt mode, so it could be disastrous. For instance, if an Autobot scanned a Decepticon, he could go mad. This isn't a problem with vehicles because they of course have no minds.

    They were in their ships and thus, had equipment in there already to do the scanning/replication process. That's why everytime they find a Protoform they prefer to take it back to base if convenient rather than reformat them on the spot. (though usually, they didn't have a choice)
     
  18. sunnyswipe

    sunnyswipe autobot

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    regarding the whole waste emissions/vital "organs" question, im sure i came across a website, years ago that really went into detail about it, explaining that tf's need an atmosphere to vent waste gasses ect
    the guy (girl?)who wrote it had really done his homework, like i say, this was years ago though, so ive no idea whet it was called-very little help, i know, sorry!
     
  19. butz

    butz slippery when wet

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    RiD Scourge! :lol 
     
  20. sunnyswipe

    sunnyswipe autobot

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    the seekers,
    prowl,bluestreak,smokescreen (sorta!)
    i never realy thought about it 'till now lol
    pity sunstreaker and sideswipe are about as identical as rumble and ravage
     

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