Star Trek Borg question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DeathStorm, Aug 22, 2007.

  1. DeathStorm

    DeathStorm Snoochie Boochies

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    I'm no "die hard" Star Trek fan by any means, I just watch it now and then.

    Since I'm in Kuwait and movies are free to rent I got this set called the Borg Collective. It's all episodes of Enterprise, TNG, and Voyager that deal with the Borg (admittedly my favorite adversaries).

    The very first episode is an Enterprise one in which the Borg are discovered for the first time. Just like the Transformers movie, freezing them seems to keep them inactive. Once the Borg are on board the Enterprise and thawed out they come back to life and infect the ship's doctor.

    So here's my questions:

    1. This show is supposed to be the prequel to TNG and Voyager. Yet when TNG encounters the Borg for the first time they know nothing about them. Wouldn't some record of them been made by then?

    2. If freezing makes them inactive why not freeze them?

    3. In Enterprise the infected doctor subjects himself to some sort of radiation to kill the nano-infection and it works. Wouldn't you think several centuries into the future this could be discovered?

    I know it's trivial to let small stuff like this bother me about a show I don't frequently watch but it's stuck in my head all day and I was hoping someone who's more knowledgable could provide some answers.
     
  2. Skor

    Skor I HATE U TRASH MONSTAAAR! TFW2005 Supporter

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    It's Enterprise. :( 

    I was more worried by the fact that the original Enterprise appeared to be Akira Class. Where are the disco engines?! DISCO ENGINES!!
     
  3. Bendimus Prime

    Bendimus Prime Rolls for initiative TFW2005 Supporter

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    You found the episode where most Star Trek fans feel Enterprise jumped the shark. Up until that point, they were skating along on very thin continuity ice, but most people looked the other way since TOS was made so long ago. As long as the stories fit with the TNG/DS9/Voyager Universe, there was really nothing to complain about.

    Unfortunately, the Borg had already been castrated by the end of Voyager, and now it seemed that pre-Kirk technology could easily take them on. This, followed by the Xindi story arc, is what killed the series.
     
  4. BigPrime3000

    BigPrime3000 Well-Known Member

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    The one thing you'll notice if you rewatch the Enterprise episode is that the Borg never really identify themselves. I had the same question until I really watched the episode and paid close attention and notice that glaring ommission.

    As far as I can figure, the Enterprise crew probably made some mention of the Borg threat, since Archer found the file that showed the Cochrane had mentioned the Borg, he filed it under the same subheading, but since in the speech he quoted Cochrane never said the word "borg" they never knew what to label the species. As a result, in TNG when the Enterprise first encountered the Borg, if they had done a background check for Borg they wouldn't have found anything since the previous encounters never identified the species as the Borg.

    Still, for as shitty as Enterprise was, I thought the Borg episode kicked total ass.
     
  5. transmetropolitan

    transmetropolitan nonjon TFW2005 Supporter

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    1. The Borg send a signal to the Hive(s) in the Delta Quadrant at the end of the episode, and I believe that Archer makes a comment like "it won't reach them for 200 hundred years".

    Fast Forward to TNG "Q-Who"-first appearance of Borg.
    Q whacks the Enterprise into the Delta Quadrant to show them a evil coming their way. It's a Borg ship responding to the signal sent 200 years ago.

    The Fedaration does know of the Borg beforehand, but it's highly classified, Section 31(think Sector 7 from Transformers). This is dealt with in some of the books IIRC.

    As for questions 2 and 3. No answer. Just a few of the many unanswered questions in the Star Trek universe. The freezing of the Borg you bring up is a good point.

    "Enterprise" :puke: 
     
  6. BigPrime3000

    BigPrime3000 Well-Known Member

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    See I can kind of understand that, since the Borg in Enterprise were the Borg leftover from the crash of the Borg sphere in First Contact, but at the same time the Borg there were completely stranded and unable to communicate with the collective. And since the larger the collective, the more reponses the Borg are able to adapt to, it makes since that a small collective of only a handful of Borg wouldn't be able to adapt to pre-Kirk technology as quickly as they could with TNG technology. To be fair, it was completely different technology, less advanced or not, the Borg in Enterprise had never seen those kind of weapons before and so had no defense against them. With less Borg being exposed to this new type of weapon, it makes sense that it took them longer to adapt than the Borg in TNG took to adapt to their weapons.

    I consider myself a Star Trek fan, but not a trekkie, and I think that the trekkies really ruined Enterprise unfairly. Sure, it's not the best Enterprise, but I'm able to set aside a few differences that are so minute that it would be like a normal person remembering some insane, off the wall, completely unneccessary detail that was exposed decades before their time that you just can't expect, or demand, them to remember. You just can't ask for the continuity to match up completely.

    But the trekkies go completely batshit nuts over the smallest detail not matching up that Enterprise got a bad rap when it was exactly what a logical, something that Star Trek has stressed as being important by having it be a main trait of the race of the second officer of the very first series, first step for the deep exploration of space by man should be.

    I mean think about it. The actual Enterprise was done perfectly, all the rooms feel small enough and the equipment ancient enough that it practically seems like a submarine flying in space. If you think about it when humans get to the point where we want to travel into deep space beyond the Earth's gravitational influence and beyond the moon, it'll probably be the submarine that gives us the best example of the compactness and close quarters required for the large group of people that will be required to keep a large space ship up and running before we are able to get computer technology into the trillions of terrabites required in small enough of a space to get the luxury of having extra space on a space ship like you see in TOS or TNG. Beyond on that, the psychology of the human race in Enterprise is done PERFECTLY. As far as space travel is concerned, we've been under the control of the Vulcans for over a century and we're starting to resent it. If anything I think that's optimistic of human behavior. Thinking we would be willing to wait over a century to do something on our own as a species is the equivalent of thinking that it would be practical to expect a baby to want to start driving at 12 months of age.

    Sorry for the rant, but I though that Enterprise was a completely logical and enjoyable show that got ruined because the trekkie "elite" deemed it not good enough to carry the Star Trek name for some reason even though it was arguable better than Voyager and Voyager didn't get any shit at all compared to how Enterprise was crucified.
     
  7. DeathStorm

    DeathStorm Snoochie Boochies

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    Wow, good insight from everyone - thanks. As far as the shows go, I knew Enterprise wasn't doing well - even though I never really watched an episode. TNG really hooked me though. Once I'm back home I'm sure I'll watch reruns time and time again. I tried to get into Voyager and Deep Space Nine but it just wasn't the same.

    I will be watching the Voyager episodes in this set though, just cuz it's Borg and I do like them so much. Thanks all.
     
  8. BigPrime3000

    BigPrime3000 Well-Known Member

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    The first few season of DS9 are kind of hard to suffer through, just like the first few seasons of TNG, but if you are able to get to the point where Worf joins the cast and the Federation/Dominion War starts to pick up you quickly realize that while it is completely different than any other Trek series, it also gives you something that you've never seen before in any Trek series in an excellent way, an ongoing War, not just random conflicts, between the Federation and another faction. For as much as we heard about in the fights against the Klingons, Borg, Cardassians in TNG, and other smaller conlicts with random species, DS9 is the first time you actually get to see how the Federation wages war.
     
  9. transmetropolitan

    transmetropolitan nonjon TFW2005 Supporter

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    Yes, the look, asthetics, feel, set up was fantastic, but the STORIES WERE DREADFUL. UTTER GARBAGE. That's the core of a series. Continuity mistakes and nitpicking has nothing to do with its' demise. It was a waste of possibilities. I love Brannon Braga and his work up untill "Enterprise", but this was such a let down. Other than Trip, and maybe Phloxx and big-boobs, the rest of the cast of characters were undeveloped, and I just wanted them to all die.

    I am glad to see that someone enjoyed it, and I would like to see some book relaunch. It just makes me so mad because I want to like it, but never will.
     
  10. Bendimus Prime

    Bendimus Prime Rolls for initiative TFW2005 Supporter

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    No need to apologize, I agree with a lot of what you said. I'd say I'm a half-trekkie of sorts. I've seen every episode of all five series, but I don't remember every little detail like many others do. While there were some things that I think shouldn't have been overlooked (like Phlox being able to irradiate away the nanoprobes), it wasn't enough to give up on the series. And that's exactly what the hardcore fans did.

    I will always be pissed at the fans for not backing the show when it turned around in the forth season. It was thick with cannon (like why the Klingons look like humans in TOS), and still was a fun show for the casual viewer. The hardcore fans really let a good thing get away.
     
  11. Misatokitty

    Misatokitty The Major

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    I love Star Trek, have since I was a kid and saw Kirk on Saturday morning TV (along with Galactica, Man from Atlantis, the US and UK Invisible Man, and the Bionic Duo, amongst other shows). TOS was my favourite Trek until DS9, and Voyager... well, First Contact continued the neutering of the Borg, my favourite TNG enemy, that had begun in I, Borg and more notably in Descent, Voyager just took it to new levels even in the first "proper" Borg episode, Scorpion pt 1 and 2.

    But the Enterprise episode fit in well with the continuity of the Borg that had been set up. Remember, 7 of 9's parents had known about the Borg, and although Starfleet didn't want to look into them, the Hansen family tracked them and knew quite a bit about them. That knowledge came from somewhere. I do think largely, though, from the feel of those Voyager episodes (Raven?) that the Borg were treated as a distant memory by Starfleet and of no concern. It also follows up nicely on the continuity changed/set up in First Contact.

    I consider myself to be a Trek fan of no small stature. And I love my continuity. And yet, Enterprise has become my favourite show in the franchise. Yes, it got a lot better partway through season 2, and picked up majorly in season 3, with more improvement in season 4. Everything I saw from episode 1 was a nice progression towards TOS; most of the things that people disagree with, I just don't get or understand, but I see a lot of the same complaints made about Transformers, and how every new series since 1984's wave 1 has raped the franchise, so I just ignore the complaints now.

    The last episode sucked, though, and I think the novel, "The Good That Men Do" was a great retelling, with Nog and Jake Sisko discovering the real details behind the last episode ;)  That infamous holonovel... being fiction. But read the novel, it's well worth it.

    As to the questions...

    1) according to Voyager, yes, records did exist about the Borg. But Starfleet wasn't looking at them; presumably more worried about local, present concerns such as the recently-ended Cardassian war, ongoing issues with the Tholians, even the Tzenkethi. Civilian researchers had access to records though that talked about the Borg - they were considered to be similar to a fairytale, iirc.

    2) It wasn't just the freezing. They'd been blown up real good by quantum torpedoes, and crashed into the Earth in the Arctic circle - presumably, like Megatron, they were too damaged and then snap-frozen too quickly to make repairs at that point. Once thawed, their nanotech would have been able to make repairs and reactivate them.

    3) The other issue with the radiation is it might have had something to do, as others have pointed out, with the lack of a true collective to associate to, as well as related to the damage from being frozen for nearly a century, or even down to the fact they had never assimilated a Denobulan before, which may have caused some delays with the assimilation process... mostly there because Denobulans several times through the show were noted to be greatly physically different to humans and standard humanoids and were sufficiently different that they may have been harder to crack than us weak pink-skins.
     

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