SPOILER THREAD for those who watched Predacons Rising

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Wrecker217, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    The irony is they shouldn't have to steal the show when it's suppose to be ABOUT THEM!

    That's one of the other issues I had with Predacons Rising. I wish Unicron and Megatron had just stayed dead so the movie titled Predacon's Rising could actually be about Predacons Rising.

    Anyway, despite the flaws it is better than the Animated version of Predacons Rising. They were never actually called Predacons, there was only two of them, and despite ending with "Wazpinator haz planz" they were never seen again. This has 3 Predacons who are actually referred to as Predacons. Plus a countless army of undead Predacons which I suppose actually fits the title sense they did rise from the dead. It's better than calling an episode Predacons Rising when really all that happens is Wasp gets a beast mode. That's more like Predacon Rising. Blackarachnia was already there.
     
  2. siniquezu

    siniquezu Well-Known Member

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    seriously why would megatron just give up like that
     
  3. Anti Theon

    Anti Theon Well-Known Member

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    You DO realize that the Predacons Rising title was literal.

    It was the RISE of the PREDACON UNDEAD.

    The other Predacons were already "risen" as clones, so seeing more of them wouldn't be any more loyal to the title.

    So tell me: How would/could you make it more about Rising Predacons than than a legion of them risen as undead?

    Changing your core motivation isn't the same thing as giving up.

    Giving up means you still want it, but have lost the will, self confidence, or ability to get it. If anything Megaton was more capable than ever. His "defeat" and earlier death had been reversed. His combat skills were sufficient to best even the mighty Predaking in a one-on-one battle. He could travel interstellar distances at FTL speeds without the benefit of a spaceship or Space Bridge. Surely he still had real prospects of conquest if he so desired.

    If I change your core motivation, you no longer want what you thought you did before and would pass on it even if it was handed to you. A Nazi who has had his belief in his racial supremacy shattered isn't self-motivated to exterminate "lesser" races no matter how easy it is. A medieval Jihadi or Crusader who loses faith in his religion isn't self-motivated to go forth and convert others by the sword even if victory is his for the taking.
     
  4. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    I do realize the title was a reference to the undead, did you not see that part of my post where I had already stated that fact?

    Technically only Predaking had already risen. Darksteel and Skylynx were first introduced in the movie. That being said, the answer is obvious... had the movie been about the Predacons getting together and focused entirely on them as the main bad guys then it would be more about Predacons Rising.

    What we got wasn't really about the Predacons, they were a subplot at best. The main story was Unicron and Megatron are back.

    Lets put this another way. There has been some speculation that Hasbro came up with this Beast Hunters toy line and told the people on Prime you gotta work these dragons into your plot some how. Well I could totally see this movie working without the Predacons. I mean Megatron was going to bring a Terrorcon army over from Cybertron in the first season. They didn't really need to be Predacon zombies, they could of used the same animation models for the generic terrorcons in the first season.

    So what else could of made a better Predacons Rising... a story that actually requires the Predacons to have existed. The story as it is doesn't really require them to be there. The zombies didn't have to be Predacons, they feel like an after thought rather than a main focus. They could of not been there at all and changed the title, and the story wouldn't of changed one bit.

    Oh wait... I didn't realize when I started writing this post. You're the same dude from the other thread. No wander the first thing you said in your post was just to repeat exactly what I already said and make it sound like an argument. No thanks I'm not playing this game again. Go bother someone else.
     
  5. EnergonWaffles

    EnergonWaffles Autobot's Head Chef Moderator

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    ^ was the deathasaurus thread closed? Went to look yesterday and its gone >:0

    Im still wondering why the package art shows Optimus facing off against Predaking, as they never even spoke to each other.

    Not that Im complaining- more Predaking artwork the better.
     
  6. siniquezu

    siniquezu Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you chimed in on this. On a deeper level, I agree that his motivations have changed but the revelation of his alternate believe is somewhat lacking. In good character development, there is almost always a replacement in motivation. Let's suppose that if a person's revenge is stripped, the anger is usually displaced onto the source of the stripped revenge. In Megatron's case, his desire for conquest is stripped but lacks a replacement motivation. Alternately, characters lacking in motivation are typically portrayed as either lost or lacking in will to survive. Neither of these developments were hinted upon; simply that Megatron believes the Decepticons are no more. In which case, his surrender of the Decepticon cause seems lackluster and almost unbelievable.
     
  7. Anti Theon

    Anti Theon Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.

    However, I think that would be for another story. Adding it to the existing film would have been almost an aside or even an anticlimax (and there was enough of an anticlimax already in Prime's sacrifice).

    In the context of a sojourn in hell, I'd beg to differ.

    We got to see the difference between Megatron and Unicron almost through Megatron's eyes. Unicron was a dark mirror to the worst in Megatron, and he didn't care for what he saw. Unicron wanted to destroy Cybertron, and while Megatron had wanted to conquer it, he had nearly destroyed it in his pursuit. Unicron wanted only to kill, and while Megatron had wanted only dominion, he had killed a great many who would not submit. Seeing that, and being on the helpless receiving end of these worst of his own impulses, I can readily believe he'd reject them (if only in the hope that he would not return to such a hell when he finally dies yet again).

    Right now, Megatron is much like someone who has lost his religion. I don't see him clinging to the Decepticon 'church' even though he was the founder and leader. Beyond that, had they shown Megatron immediately leaping to some new purpose I believe THAT would have lacked credibility. He needs to wander in the wilderness for a while.

    The situation does beg a further story to provide the very character development vacuum that you point out. Does he quest to purge his spark of any residue of the Dark Energon? Does he return to Earth and journey to it's core to hide away in the vacant corpse of Unicron's physical form? I suppose it depends on the story. A quest to purge his spark might be a story wholly about Megatron -- so not likely. If he's needed for some deed crucial to Cybertron's survival, a trip by the Autobots back to an almost empty underworld to retrieve him would be dramatic. I'm sure we could easily come up with a dozen more possibilities.

    Not that I think we are likely to get any such further stories. I fear we've seen the last of Megatron from the current production team.

    Good.

    Now you know just how frustrating it is to have someone reply to a post and apparently not bother to read it.

    Take the lesson to heart.

    Look in the mirror.

    You replied to me there. You literally repeated my statement that progress was slow as if I'd never stated it. That's how you started, doing exactly what you falsely accuse me of doing later.

    When called on it you flipped the subject and claimed that mixed race had been shown since Star Trek, for the sake of being disagreeable I presume. If you can't pick a fight on the "progress is slow" side, claim that progress had already been made. A claim unsupported by your rambling, pointless, volume of shallow information that somehow conveyed -- and contained -- no comprehension whatsoever. No shock, I suppose, that you next think debunking you is merely repetition.

    Wait... are you still playing dumb? Pretending you don't KNOW that's what you did. Talk about playing games.

    You're either a very clever nuisance or a very unclever nuisance. Either way, I won't get fooled a third time.
     
  8. EnergonWaffles

    EnergonWaffles Autobot's Head Chef Moderator

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    Agreed. But for them to pull that off, I believe they would've needed to spend more time on this "change" or changed his scenes with Unicron.

    Could he have given up the will to survive? It wouldn't have fit with his will to survive during his imprisonment with Unicron. No reason for him to suddenly loose it when he's finally freed. I feel like their options for getting him out of the picture while keeping him in character were pretty limited.

    You're totally right, I'm just sitting here trying to think of a motivation they could give him that wouldn't sound like bs. Maybe he could've gone into exile to "protect Cybertron from afar" or something. But I don't recall him really complaining about Cybertron being destroyed- his main moment of defiance was trying to get his body mangled so he wouldn't have to suffer the indignity of being controlled by Unicron.


    Edit: Dang that would've been such an easy fix. Had he been terrified for Cybertron's safety once Unicron told him he planed to destroy his home, that would've been a believable cause for a change of motivation, his priorities, and disillusionment all in one.
     
  9. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    I think that having a god giving you horrible torture is different then having just a mortal begin torture you can give you a bigger impact on your life. Yes Megatron was able to shake off a bit of Unicron's possison in the One Shall Rise arc but it was different because he was alive. Now that he's in limbo Unicron has more power over Megatron as a result.
     
  10. Unicrons Herald

    Unicrons Herald Chaos Bringer

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    True, and Unicron's powers are more awake in Predacons Rising than in One shall Rise arc. If you get what I mean.
     
  11. Don Jon

    Don Jon Member

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    Yep. This show didn't win any awards for its writing, folks. ;) 
     
  12. Anti Theon

    Anti Theon Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like a "deep down he wasn't actually a bad guy" phenomenon to me -- which I would have found vomit-worthy.

    I think the "losing religion" or "losing faith" model is the best -- and leaves the most options open if there were to anything further in this continuity.

    Moreover, I will stick to the argument that the film had too long an anticlimax (the period after Unicron was trapped). The best stories don't have any. This one had one, which is tolerable. Two would have been intolerable.

    Remember that only fandom wants it all, even to the detriment of the story. Put it all in, and it's usually awful. That's what companion comic books and novels are for -- to cover the material that only a narrow slice of the pie would give a damn about.
     
  13. EnergonWaffles

    EnergonWaffles Autobot's Head Chef Moderator

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    I'd have viewed it more as a throwback to how he was before he was corrupted by the war. Even evil people have things they care about. But really either model would work- I'd prefer the loosing religion one since it fits with him exiling himself the best. Plus, loosing religion instead of a change in motivation keeps the door open for him to be an antagonist in future Aligned series without punt kicking whatever continuity is left out the window.
     
  14. donxavier

    donxavier Well-Known Member

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    Here are some of my thoughts on the movie:

    Starscream is not dead. Knowing the humor of the show it seems more plausible that Predaking will keep Starscream around, subjecting him to all sorts of indignities and humiliations.

    Megatron's change in outlook in the end was a little surprising but I like that they allowed the character to go down that road. I imagine millions of years of fighting, coming close to victory time and again only to lose and then to be reduced to nothing more than the puppet of an even mightier force might tire one out of the whole "subjugate the universe" game.

    On the loss of Optimus. Let's see he's died in G1, Beast Machines (Optimus Primal), Revenge of the Fallen, Armada, etc. Hasbro I know you love the noble hero sacrificing himself for the greater good bit but in the next series try to come up with a more original fate for Optimus. The bot has died enough already!!!!! :) 
     
  15. unicronic

    unicronic Well-Known Member

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    Just watched it on BluRay.

    This was actually one of the more satisfying 'episodes' of the entire show. Reasonably well paced and thought out.

    Megatron's about face at the end was one of the few unexpected turns during the series and was refreshing.

    I would have preferred to see a new Prime appear though.

    Also Skylynx and Darksteel, did they really have to use the two repaints to force us to buy those figures all over again.

    Finally, where's my Megacron figure?
     
  16. LegionMaximus

    LegionMaximus Well-Known Member

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    . . . I think it's time I broke down and bought a Blu Ray player.
     
  17. Unicrons Herald

    Unicrons Herald Chaos Bringer

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    Yeah, I need a BluRay player as well, now as they are getting cheap as well. :) 
     
  18. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    That's what made IDW's Death of Optimus Prime great. It was both of a death and re-birth. Optimsu Prime is no longer a Prime or the Autobot leader, but Orion Pax finally freed from the burden of leadership.
     
  19. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Well technically you don't have to buy anything. It's still a pretty dumb choice though.

    The two characters who actually appear in the movie are both repaints of toys that already existed and they're store exclusives. Why couldn't they just use the original versions of those molds? Or better yet, if they were going to insist on the repaints why not mass release them and make the other two store exclusives.

    Maybe Hasbro is testing out how well show characters sell compared to non-show characters. Seeing who's going out of their way just to order these guys from Target instead of just being satisfied that they have the original versions. Of course if that's the case this is still a really dumb way to do it because it's not just show vs. non-show. It's store exclusive vs. mass retail. If the non-show sells out more it won't be because they're more popular but just because they're easier to get.
     
  20. Maximo Prime

    Maximo Prime Bassist of Ill Repute

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    meanwhile, they didn't look enough like one set of repaints or the other, so it really doesn't matter besides the occasional namedrop, does it?
     

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