Some thoughts on "who would win"

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Optimus Sledge, Jan 24, 2009.

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  1. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    Chuck Norris. Unless Steven Seagal is involved. I don't want to get in the middle of that fight.

    Ok, with that out of the way, I don't understand threads that pit one character against another without context. Here's my reasons.

    1) Anyone can beat anyone, it depends what they're prepared to do. I'm an overweight guy with no combat training. But give me a .357 Magnum and the element of surprise and Chuck Norris doesn't have a chance. So yeah, Bumblebee could take Trypticon. Comic fans will probably already understand this if I say "Batman" and "preparation time."

    2) We're talking about fictional characters. There are rules, even if unwritten, to how they will act. If you're pitting a good guy against a bad guy, unless there's a story reason for the bad guy to win, the good guy's gonna kick ass. If you pit a good guy against a good guy, they'll fight without really reaching a winner, then figure out they're being manipulated and team up to take down the people who set them up. That's how fiction works. Think about any crossover you've ever seen. The only exception I can think of was that Marvel/DC thing a year back where kids got to vote on whether Wolverine could defeat someone who once killed a planet.

    So I guess what I'm getting at is... what's the point of these things? :confused: 
     
  2. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

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    First of all the only point is for a bunch of nerds like us to have some fun and change things up a little bit. None of the threads here really have meaning a point or anything else except for frivilous fun. There doesnt have to be a point this is a board dedicated to a cartoon!

    I think you misunderstand fiction second of all. There are NO rules in FICTION!! Maybe some people have done things a certain way in the past but the beauty of fiction is that at any time the 'rules' can change!! For someone who said these threads lack imagination I would argue that always following set 'rules' when writing fictional stories is what LACKS imagination. (Also, may I suggest you read a little Shakespeare from time to time) Like i said before, if you dont like these threads just ignore them but I have had dozens of awesome conversations based around this tournament. I just got done having an hour conversation with a friend on here about the tournament and particular matchups/speculation. He ended by saying he loved that I started this thread and he loves checking on it each day.

    I would suggest stop looking for the 'point' of things and if you see a thread that interests you than comment along and have some pointless frivilous fun. If you dont find something interesting in a thread than simply move on, ignore it, and find one you find more appealing!!
     
  3. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    My question is: why worry about it as a serious exercise in tactical comparisons, when it's just going to turn into a popularity contest anyway?
     
  4. Moonscream

    Moonscream YES, We EXIST!

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    I used to look at them as writing practice, where you lay out exactly why and how one character would defeat another, and hopefully win some converts to your choice's side. But it got tedious after a while with poor payoff, so I no longer bother with them.

    Especially when there are multiple threads. We don't NEED multiple 'fight' threads.

    --Moony
     
  5. misternoodle

    misternoodle Banned

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    what's the point?

    discussion.

    I'm not saying its good discussion but it is...something.
     
  6. Easterling Capt

    Easterling Capt I am Vern Schillinger

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    my point exactly in the first thread.

    and no Batman can not take Superman down, because kryptonite gloves are not in his ordinary arsenal of weapons.
     
  7. Voiceroy

    Voiceroy Trans-fo-mahs!

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    I'm with you on this, Optimus Sledge. I don't see the point either. But some fans seem to enjoy it so more power to them. I usually avoid such threads otherwise.

    QFT. I already recommended it be merged into a megathread, and we see how far that went.

    And yet if one of us started a new thread for discussing each individual episode of G1, we know how long that would last before it was merged.

    Try taking a fiction writing class some time and you'll change your mind.

    And it's off topic, but there's a reason it's called "science fiction." One of the rules of science fiction is that it at least be based on science fact in order for it to be plausible and believable. Granted, plenty of writers take lots of liberty with fact in order for their fiction to work, but without at least a foundation of science fact, the fiction falls apart.

    That's why we can accept the plausibility that cars and planes could actually change into robots.
     
  8. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

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    Thanks voiceroy but I have taken multiple fiction classes on top of shakespeare courses, advanced rhetoric, middle english etc etc at one of the best universities in my area. I have actually even been fortunate enough to win some awards for my writing. I know quite a bit about fiction and the one thing that remains true is yes there are some established ways of doing things but no there are NO rules. What makes pieces of work often stand out is when in fact those rules are bent or broken.

    And the only reason I am not merging this into a 'mega thread' is because I didnt think I could do that and insert a poll into it for each new round as it comes along. Is there a way to do this? If so I would have no problem merging them all. Plus it would show how many views and posts this thread gets so we can all realize that even though some of you see no point etc, that there are tons of people that instead of looking for a point in a transformers thread are just participating for the fun of it!!
     
  9. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    Now this I can see. If people are putting detailed thought into the exercise, yeah that can be fun. But... how often does that happen? All you normally get is "Metroplex is bigger than Starscream, so he'd win," if you're lucky. And as Aernaroth points out, it will end up a popularity contest.

    OptimusSolo, you're wrong. If you don't think those rules exist, look at the medium we're discussing. Those rules may not be written down, but they govern the world Transformers exist in nonetheless. You can't seperate the characters from the world they exist in.
     
  10. Moonscream

    Moonscream YES, We EXIST!

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    You don't need a poll - just count the number of posts for each character between the opening of each fight and the close, declare the winner, then move onto the next contest using the same thread. Judging by your threads so far, doing so would not be unreasonable. I've seen it done this way several times.

    --Moony
     
  11. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

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    I wasnt talking about in one specific environment I was talking about fiction in general so sorry I am not wrong.
     
  12. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

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    It just seemed like it was way easier to do the poll for me to be suer of who is actually voting and for counting up the votes. As busy as my schedule is right now I barely have time to even post the new stuff let alone dig through pages of posts to count up the votes. I see what you're saying and dont disagree with what you say. The polls just make my life way easier. Also, I have noticed that all polls seem to drop off the first page after a day or two so I dont think its too much of a nuissance except for maybe a couple of you.
     
  13. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    We're not discussing fiction in general. And all fiction has rules. Now, you may argue that the fiction that breaks those rules are better pieces of fiction (which means you agree with me, no?). I would disagree (better fiction is that which is better), but it doesn't matter. Such fiction is still in the minority, rendering it unimportant as regards your contests.
     
  14. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    What's the point of making a thread to bitch about "who would win?" threads?

    I mean, distracting, meaningless and smugly condescending quibbles about the definition of "fiction" aside, this is a fan forum full of TF geeks. Geeks will do as geeks will do. If nobody responds to the "fight" threads, they will die a quiet death. If they thrive, it means that there's an audience for these types of threads, and so belong here.

    Personally I kind of enjoy threads like that because it offers me a chance to geek out a bit, to voice and share my interpretations of TF fiction and how I think the characters would interact.

    There's a limit though, and eventually such debates can become tedious. Of course nothing will truly be "decided"... the most we could hope for is a general consensus. But in the meantime, some of the responses and discussion can be fun, and really that's the only reason for us to be here, isn't it?

    What's it all in service to? Why are we here? The SERIOUS BUSINESS of Transformers? Give me a break! :) 

    So yeah, if you don't like "Fight threads" just don't bother with them. Yeesh, talk about trying to dictate what other people should be discussing...!

    Seriously, man... uncool.

    zmog
     
  15. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    At the very least merge them and then stick to one thread. A new thread every day (as far as I can see) is a bit of a clutter - think where we'd be after just a month like that.
    Besides that I don't mind a versus thread. I'm not likely to join in with it, but as long as someone is getting enjoyment from it then play on.
     
  16. Moonscream

    Moonscream YES, We EXIST!

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    Except that telling people they shouldn't discuss (or bitch) about what other people are discussing - is telling *them* what they should be discussing. :lol  I just don't see the point of multiple threads where the only change is the names myself.

    TRANSFORMAZ-TEH SERIUS BIZNES! :D 

    --Moony
     
  17. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Especially when they're only set to run for a single day too.

    I guess the only loss in a single thread for all versus would be the poll each thread has, but I suppose the threadstarter could just count up each person's vote themselves at the end of each match.
     
  18. Optimus Sledge

    Optimus Sledge Yar har fiddle di dee

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    "Bitch"? "Bitch"? Where? Aside from that, Moonscream rather eloquently covered everything I'd want to say in response to you.

    Yeah, there is the clutter aspect to all these threads. Maybe a seperate sub-forum, if they're really that popular?
     
  19. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Bitch, gripe, complain, decry, undermine, critique, whatever... that IS what this thread was started for, right?

    And while I'm usually supportive of internet forums as a venue for sharing grievances, and I normally disagree strongly with those forum pundits whose contributions tend to be "Shut up whiners!", I do have to say in this instance it seems a bit petty to create a thread as a platform solely to criticize other people's threads.

    It just seems really poisonous and unnecessary... something for which the whole purpose would appear to be simply disturbing the proverbial shite. So now we're in the vicious circle of me defending my right to complain about your right to complain about somebody else's right to discuss what they want. Yay.

    But much as you ask "what is the point" of Fight Threads, I counter with "what is the point" of making a fuss over nothing? Why so serious? :) 

    At least I didn't start a thread entitled "Some thoughts about people who have nothing better to do than start threads complaining about what other threads people like to start", so I'm still one up on you. ;) 

    **Though I will add to all of this that I agree the Fight threads do contribute to a certain degree of forum clutter, and could maybe benefit from a more concise organization (if possible).

    zmog
     
  20. OptimusSolo

    OptimusSolo Tournament Master

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    I have no problem mergin the threads into one if the only issue is with clutter (although all past contests are in subpages a day or two later)

    However, it will make it impossible for me to use polls as a vote counter and I would not be able to let people know when new contests start via the main page since the name of the thread would have to be the same no matter what contest we are on. I just see a lot less people participating if they have to write an explanation every time rather than just click a vote on a poll and since they will forget when new contests start. If there is a way to remedy these things and merge them altogether I would be all for it.

    SMOG thanks for being the voice of logic and reasoning here. I was too tired of all the complaining to leave a cool-headed response myself!!
     
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