So who had the better plan? Fallen or Sentinel Prime

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by RedWolf, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    So who had the better plan? Fallen or Sentinel Prime

    Fallen
    -Kill all Prime descendants through minions
    -Steal the Matrix
    -Steal Earth's sun using Sun Harvester
    -Kill all Humans
    -Energon Profit!

    Sentinel Prime
    -Join Megatron
    -Use Space Bridge to bring over Cybertron
    -Make Megatron his bitch
    -Take over Decepticons
    -Enslave the Human race as labor
    -Strip mine Earth
    -Rebuild Cybertron!
     
  2. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Sentinel.

    Not only it was a better plan, it would have made him a hero for saving his race.

    The Fallen deserved to have his face ripped off, he was full of crap.
     
  3. DecepticonSpike

    DecepticonSpike Kimber/Stormer Fanboy

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    I'll go with SP's plan. The Fallen's was all about revenge, while SP's was about saving what was left of the Transformer race.
     
  4. mephisto1138

    mephisto1138 Well-Known Member

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    Fallen definitely had the easier plan as far as damage control. If he'd successfully turned that machine on, they'd have all the energon they need and the humans would be wiped out along with the planet without having to go around and personally kill them all essentially one by one.

    But then the Fallen didn't seem to care about rebuilding Cybertron, so obviously he's prepared to be mobile and adaptable. So, that's sort of another advantage. He was fanatical about the Prime Prophecy, but Sentinel was fanatical in a much more limiting way. Plus, the Decepticons would have killed Sentinel as soon as they no longer needed him, something SP didn't even seem to be aware of or worried about.
     
  5. DecepticonSpike

    DecepticonSpike Kimber/Stormer Fanboy

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    I'm not so sure. The Fallen didn't seem to see the big picture. He was all "revenge" this and "kill all the Primes" that.
    As for SP being betrayed by the Cons if his plan would have worked, I'm sure there would be more than a few attempts to over throw him, especially from Megatron, but, I think SP would have taken out Megatron for no longer being needed. Take out the head Con, and the other's would have fallen in line. The only major Con who may have been a problem would have been Starscream.
     
  6. mephisto1138

    mephisto1138 Well-Known Member

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    I just say Fallen's plan was easier, its the equivalent of nuking Hiroshima to end WW2 vs actually invading and losing a lot of assets in the process.

    Their plans aren't even comparable honestly as the goals were so very different that its like comparing who has the better cooking method? This guy grilling a stake or this guy baking a cake. Well, it doesn't matter because you can't grill a cake.

    Fallen's plan was certainly the most efficient if all you want to do is secure tons of energon and keep your current crew powered up.

    SP's plan was the best plan if you want to restore Cybertron.
     
  7. emilyhall205

    emilyhall205 Well-Known Member

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    Whilst the Fallen's plan probably was probably slightly easier, to him it was "revenge this, revenge that" He was blinded by revenge so his plan would never have worked anyway (at least, that seems to be the pattern in revenge filled characters) Sentinel's plan, whilst bigger in scale, had the foundations of being heroic. He was trying to save the Cybertronian race and their home planet. Still doesn't make what he did acceptable, though...
     
  8. Wheeljack94

    Wheeljack94 Autobot Lycan

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    sentinal. the fallens plan was nothing more than him throwing a hissy fit because big daddy primus told him that he couldnt kill life on a planet. he just had to have our sun. there is like a gazillion other stars. he was a brat.
     
  9. uruseiranma

    uruseiranma Well-Known Member

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    Sentinel.

    The Fallen struck me as an 'armchair warrior.'
     
  10. mephisto1138

    mephisto1138 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't call obtaining a sun's worth of Energon a hissy fit. For all we know it was the last operational machine of that nature. He had a sound plan and was constantly paranoid about the one thing that he viewed could eff it up, a Prime killing him.

    Personally I think all that Revenge talk between him and Megs was just Kurtzman and Orci playing Vader and the Emperor. There were direct lines from SW convos in there because Orci and Kurtzman are admitted Star Wars junkies, clearly jacked bits from it for Star Trek and definitely in this convo as well. I honestly didn't think it fit the character. Fallen was smart, there's a prophecy that could get me killed, remove the subject of said prophecy and I'm good to go. Pretty damn rational. Its sort of like how in the original draft of Terminator Salvation, John Connor was going to always be shored up in a base, never out in public to keep himself safe as he knew what he needed to do and that going out into the battle was dangerous and could ultimately ruin everything (obviously the finished version completely wrecked that, but that's another rant). So the Fallen takes the right precautions to keep himself alive until everything is in place to make his final move. That's chess not cowardice. Maybe a little cowardice, but mostly chess.

    The Fallen, much like every other villain in these movies, was a great idea that didn't get the fleshing out and full menace there was available. That's the fault of pacing, editing and general efficient use of time in the finished films. The SW prequels, though I still love them, suffered the same problem with Anakin. They kept telling us he was the shizz without ever showing him BEING the shizz. Dark Knight is a fantastic example of balancing time and characters. Same with The Unforgiven where you get a character who you're told is bad ass, but then they get beat up. Then the guy #2 seems like the new hotness, but then he gets beaten up. So you keep this ladder going of who is top dog while waiting for your main character to get into the fray, knowing, because the bad ass levels keep rising, that when he does, it will be something to see. That's how you build up a character's impact.
     
  11. Wheeljack94

    Wheeljack94 Autobot Lycan

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    dont get me wrong, i liked rotf. i just disliked the fallen's character. he all of a sudden develops a hate for humans because we need the sun that he wants to take instead of finding another star that would/could provide him with more/better energon. plus he reminds me of a weak "all bark no bite" bully. he kills humans and thinks he is all bad but when prime shows up, and he actually has a challenge where he has to fight for his life, he gets his ass beat. kinda like in "Van Helsing" where the only thing that could kill ends up doing so because he cant defend himself properly. the whole fight he is trying to talk him ito joining him cause he knows he will get his ass beat if he fights him. and he tries running away 3 times. anyway, back to transformers, the fallen was a punk unlike sentinal who whipped everyones ass. (autobots and megs) no wonder megs bested him at the end. he was probably tired.
     
  12. VaderPrime1

    VaderPrime1 Prepare for termination!

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    The Fallen was a wannabe. Sentinel is better.
     
  13. ErbFan28

    ErbFan28 Go Dennis Erb Jr. #28!!!

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    Sentinel
     
  14. ArtistOfWar59

    ArtistOfWar59 Stunticon

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    Sentinel not only had the better plan, but he executed much better. Instead fo sitting on a chair, waiting for Megs to kill Prime, he goes and tries to kill him himself!
     
  15. Skywarp86

    Skywarp86 Active Member

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    The one bit I always found funny about The Fallen's plan was clearing the Pyramid to reveal the weapon. What better way to do this than get the slowest and biggest target you've got on your team to do it - and not only that, but having him start a fair distance from the Pyramid in the first place. Not a clue that 'Con, not a flamin clue.
     
  16. mephisto1138

    mephisto1138 Well-Known Member

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    Sentinel is definitely the bigger badass.

    But I just don't get everyone brushing Fallen off. I mean, the guy KNOWS he's physically weaker than Prime, so of course he's going to try and avoid him at all costs. He's trying to win, he can't win toe to toe with Optimus, so he has to avoid him. Fallen is a strategist style villain, like the Emperor, not an in your face warrior conqueror like SP. The Fallen did exactly what he needed to to try to fulfill his plan.

    Could he have gone to another star system to suck up the sun? Only if a planet in that system had an operational machine to do so. It very much seemed like this might be the only one still intact. I didn't so much see him having a hate for humans as much as a sheer disregard for them. If he flat out hated them, I think he would have like to wipe them out by hand to savor the kill, not just blow up their sun and kill them all as a by product. That's indifference.

    Granted, the pacing and editing of ROTF makes it seem like he got wiped out fast, but that's the film makers fault. The character as he was written did exactly what he needed to do. Personally, and again, this is a hole left by poor filmmaking rather than a character flaw, if I were Fallen, the minute I snatched that Matrix from Prime, I would have put a spear through his head before taking off into the air again, ending the prophecy myself. Why didn't he? It would end the movie, the earth and the human race and the filmmakers weren't smart enough to handle that sequence in a stronger way. I see a lot of untapped potential in Fallen, I don't think he's someone to brush off. He's more of a Lex Luthor type than a General Zod type, he's not going to go toe to toe in a fight with the big boys, but he's dangerously calculating which can sometimes be worse...

    or course, that requires real writers...

    poor Fallen. Didn't get depicted strongly enough and now he can't get any love, lol
     
  17. Soca Taliban

    Soca Taliban Well-Known Member

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    lol, def agree with this....although, I can't see how the Fallen could be weaker than Optimus...afterall 6 other of the Original Primes decided they'd rather kill themselves than fight him 6 vs. 1. How then can OP, a descendant be stronger?
     
  18. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Sentinel's plan had a lot more "IFs" in it, while the Fallen's relied more on stuff he could do himself. I have to give the Fallen the edge in this one. Neither really worked out the way they were planned, though.
     
  19. mephisto1138

    mephisto1138 Well-Known Member

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    Good point, so maybe not weaker, but if the prophecy says he can be killed by a prime, he has to look at that as a weakness from a strategy stand point and avoid the chance the prophecy is write and he is, for some COMPLETELY unexplored reason, Prime fodder if he gets too close to OP lol
     
  20. Lbsammills51

    Lbsammills51 Well-Known Member

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    Sentinel for me, though I do find The Fallen respectable for being able to work in the shadows and manage to stay hidden from the Autobots so much that they had no idea who he was until random Decepticons started name dropping and then he rammed into an aircraft carrier.
     

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