So when did the factionalism began?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by RedWolf, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    From ROTF we get the impression the Decepticons were the older faction compared to the Autobots. Heck their founder the Fallen was still alive.

    While the Autobots entire history was written on the Allspark.

    But situation could be similar to Beast Wars and Animated. The elder Autobot generation kept the shadier part of their history from the young generation of Autobots. Specifically about a certain Prime going rogue and being the founder of the Decepticons.

    Thus the Autobots could be descendants of the followers of the Primes while the Decepticons were descendants of the followers of the Fallen.
     
  2. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Going from movie info alone (and that should be enough) I'm taking it that the movie war started 17,000 years ago.

    This is a point that has been bothering for some time. The Fallen comes to Earth with his Prime brothers 17,000 years ago to Harvest the Sun and make Energon. The other Primes see early man, and decide not to destroy the Sun. The Fallen has a hissy fit, rebels, and becomes the first Decepticon thus starting the war. Somehow Prime is a great descendant of those original Primes. Now either Transformers don't live very long in the movie universe or the 17,000 year war went through a ton of Transformer generations very quickly.

    Someone please correct me if I interpreted anything wrong here.
     
  3. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    That's how I understand it, too.

    I just figured the movie Transformers couldn't be millions of years old like in other fiction.
     
  4. Mister Gone

    Mister Gone Macro-Con

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    You know the one thing I never thought to look for on the Fallen or any of the Primes was a faction symbol :p  Any one with keener eyes out there?
     
  5. Omnius

    Omnius Well-Known Member

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    My guess is that the war means there's a high 'turnover'. Though Prime would have to be at least several thousand years old himself, given he knew Megatron himself back on Cybertron.

    I didn't see any - though that said, the symbols are hard to spot on the movieverse bots anyway.
     
  6. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    My only other guess is that time works differently for the Transformers.

    Where one revolution of Earth around our Sun equals a year, but one revolution of Cybertron around its Sun equals millions of years.

    I'm exactly up on Space/Time theories so I don't know it that were even possible.
     
  7. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout SANTARN IS COMING AGAIN TFW2005 Supporter

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    The Fallen's face is the "template" for the standard Movie Decepticon symbol, just look at a movie poster with only the Fallen's face and think of a Decepticon symbol from the movie. Using the "eyes" of the Con symbol as a place marker, super-impose the movie logo's "eyes" over The Fallen's eyes, and you should see the resemblance.

    Otherwise, he carries no symbol, but does he really need one if he's already known as "the first Decepticon"?
     
  8. Mister Gone

    Mister Gone Macro-Con

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    That was the other thing I thought. He looked alot like it but I wasn't ready to draw the conclusion just yet.
     
  9. Omnius

    Omnius Well-Known Member

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    The prequel comics explain that the Fallen's face appeared distorted on a screen when he first contacted Megatron, and the image inspired the Decepticon symbol.
     
  10. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    19,000 years ago given the date was 17,000 BC.

    Around 12,000 years ago the Allspark crashed on Earth.

    Course well after the AllSpark crashed on Earth the Fallen sent Seekers to find the Matrix. Though you'd think they would notice the Allspark during all those years.

    So the War could be on and off or continuous for 5000 years till Optimus Prime launched the AllSpark away from Cybertron.
     
  11. Optimatron

    Optimatron Autobot

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    The only truth is that the "history" in the movie-verse is convoluted and full of plot holes. The comic books try to expand on the mythology, yet contradict the movies.

    For example..one thing that confuses me is, if this war has been going on for as long as Jetfire led us to believe(as a constant war)...they would have been in a timeless war from the day Megatron and Prime were first created, meaning they would have been started off as enemies. Yet, When we pick up with them in the defiance comic prequel..the cybertronians are at peace with one another(and at war with another race), only for the war to start after Megatron is "possessed" by the Fallen.

    I have always tried to explain it to myself as, there was the first war between the Fallen, and his brothers. After that...all knowledge of the war, and those early Primes and transformers was covered up?? It's all so confusing.
     
  12. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Well the Movieverse does have a precedent with Beast Wars and Animated. The establishment made up of elders kept the records of the war from the youngsters.

    Course there is the premise whoever has the Allspark wins the war. It was not until Megatron came into power did the Autobots feel threatened enough to send it to space.
     
  13. Smasher

    Smasher HUNKY BEATS

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    The character of The Fallen pretty much had the Decepticon logo for a face in the Dreamwave comics so I was expecting it for the movie.
    The movie's Fallen is more stylized, but largely the same.

    I just read Defiance and I wasn't confused at all.
    Even in the first movie they state there was peace until Megatron decided to go to war.

    The prequel comics merely expand on that subject -I didn't see any contradiction.

    But, yeah, how the Transformers forgot their history is a BIG mystery.
     
  14. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    I'll guess that after The Fallen rebeled, he created the Decepticons and after battling him the "good robots" decided they needed a name.
     
  15. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Well Autonomous Robotic organisms (Autobots) sounded more of a description of their race.

    For Decepticon given the origin of the faction could be a description itself of the Fallen and his forces. A treachery/betrayal of the ideals of the Autobot race.
     
  16. Sioce

    Sioce Radicon in training

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    I have not read the prequel comics.
    But how it seems to me is, the transformers that came to earth were a scouting party...not the entire race.
    The Fallen rebeled against the established norm and started the war.
    The rest of the scouting party chose a side and the fight was on.
    Optimus and Megatron are "brothers" in the movieverse...this leads me to think there was peace on cybertron despite the fighting on earth. Meaning that no one knew of the fight on earth.
    One of the first things you do in a battle...cut off communication for enemy forces.
    Maybe no one on cybertron knew about the fight on earth...and most of the combatants had to go into hiding. Thus never relaying the information about the fallen or the war.
    That is why Jetfire had no idea what was going on with the modern transformers.
    The message for war was never relayed, megs got possesed by the fallen...recruits more to the fallen's cause. BOOM! War on Cybertron starts.
     
  17. mentat_emre

    mentat_emre Well-Known Member

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    Time does not depend on suns and its orbiting planets. It depends on the velocity of the particle reference to a certain value. "Year" is just a manmade concept. Different calendars use different definitions. exp: sun calendar, moon calendar.
     
  18. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    Jetfire knew of the war. It even seemed the war predated the leaderships of Optimus Prime and Megatron.

    19,000 years ago - Battle of the Primes on Earth

    12,000 years ago - Allspark crashes on Earth

    -12,000 years ago - Megatron crashes on Earth

    -5,000 years ago - Seekers sent by the Fallen look for the Matrix leaving Cybertronian language all over the place. Presumably involved in the cover up of the harvester.
     
  19. Sioce

    Sioce Radicon in training

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    Jetfire knew of decepticons....Knew nothing of the events on Cybertron.
    I have never seen anything to suggest that the war on Cybertron predated Megs and Prime.

    There are plenty of continuities of transformers that show Megs directly starting the war.
     
  20. Nemesis_Dirge

    Nemesis_Dirge Banned

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    well, look at how fast human weapons systems went thru some of the decepticons in both movies...so it would surmise that both sides in a full on blown civil war would be leaving bodies in piles left and right during clashes...some probably were fixable...the majority would be not considering the advanced weapons that the Transformers wield....
     

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