So long Murder Prime, we hardly knew ya.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Lovecraft, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Wrong.

    Mainstream comic books Batman isn't actually violent nor cynical. Miller's take on Batman is famous but far from being the most common take on the character. The thing about Bats is that he's got this dark gothy brooding appearance, but otherwise he's fairly average in level of violence.
     
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  2. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I don't feel any need for the deconstruction of characters. When there is a news story about a firefighter rushing into a burning building to save someone I don't wonder about his or her backstory and motivation I just think it's cool that there are people who are crazy brave like that.
     
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  3. Pichomp

    Pichomp Well-Known Member

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    :D 
     
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  4. Pichomp

    Pichomp Well-Known Member

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    Optimus learns the meaning of irony.
     
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  5. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Exactly. Miller's Batman isn't the Batman, it's just that his stories are sometimes very well-regarded... and other times utterly reviled. (DKR, ASBAR)

    Couldn't have said it better. Ideals aren't ideals because they're easy to uphold. The entire point of championing morals is that you don't compromise on them. That you don't give up the very minute something is hard. It's like not solving a puzzle the moment you have to question it, or quitting a marathon the instant you get a little tired.

    You really are out of touch with what makes popularity.

    If that were true, Batman Forever and Batman and Robin wouldn't be so hated. If that were true, BvS wouldn't be so loathed and mocked. If that were true, there'd be no ill-regarded Batman fiction or portrayals.

    You're literally trying to say popularity is separate from quality, and it could not be farther from the truth. Especially in this day an age where financial success is tied more and more to quality of stories than it was ten years ago. Otherwise everything and anything Batman would be equally popular because it's all built on the same history. That rather than being timeless stories that are remembered fondly for their portrayal of the characters and quality of their writing, they're just popular "because." That's such desperate bullshit I am actually laughing right now. How little can you possibly know of a subject you so staunchly object to?

    Citation needed.

    No, seriously, fetch me so info on that. The design may be, it gets utilized in toys and media certainly. But where has Prime's violent streak been incorporated anywhere outside of the films? Where has it been lauded as a superior take on the character by the public? Find me an example. I'll wait.

    Exactly! These guys get it.

    Bay's version of Optimus is so scatter-brained you can't really say what makes him popular. You can only really look at what hasn't been popularized by that version. (namely, his personality. The very thing in question)
     
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  6. Nope

    Nope Predacon

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    Yeah, I mean every writer or director or whoever is gonna have their own take on Batman, and most of them can have merit. While the whole fear and vengeance thing is a major aspect of Batman, I've always seen his compassion and resolve as being just as important to his character, if not more so (least in comics and BTAS).
     
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  7. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan Gotta get to sleep somehow...

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    Ooo, that bitch!
     
  8. autobotlongarm

    autobotlongarm Buy Dat Merch

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    I'm thinking that the Bee movie is a alternative universe of the 2007 movie, or it maybe before he turns into a Volkswagen.
     
  9. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Your right next movie should have optimus brainwashing his enemies in order to win

    keep him geewuun.

    Oh i know he shouldn also create an army of sentient watriors and then deactivate them whennthey dont perfom the right way.

    Optimus is not a pargon, hes not superman, and movie prime is g1 prime just in a unverse where the war he's fighting has consequnces
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  10. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    There are no consequences in the movies. Because things just happen arbitrarily to set things off. Also, that's not even close to what movie Prime is.

    If there was anything approaching logic cause/effect in the TF movies, we wouldn't have asinine shit like AOE's plot of the Autobots being betrayed or hunted by the humans, or every movie having the message of "we don't need the Autobots anymore" and then it turns out that they do, time and time again.
     
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  11. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    Murder Prime is Optimus, but as said, it's not the fact he kills, but how. I thought it would be more interesting if the Autobots were just as lethal as the Cons, but Prime's example is what makes them different.

    I think of him as more John Wayne than Gerard Butler.
     
  12. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Humans huntig the autobots makes sense and is a direct consequence of chicago getting destroyed. The war is over the alliance with the autobots have been given assylum for the good they did, but somemeber of the goverment feel that A. Autbots are the same no matee what side they claim to be on (a racist veiw but a human one) and B. If we can build them our selves we dont need to be beholden to a foreign power (also some thing thats very real).

    None of that is arbitrary

    Edit: also its funny how every one just ignores when ever some.one brings up that g1 prime is guilty of allot worse then what ever you wanna pin on movie optimus
     
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  13. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

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    “Optimus was never a paragon!”

    What the fuck do these people even think Optimus is, I really wonder sometimes? Is his defining trait to them just the fact that he’s the boss??
     
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  14. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Well you see those of us who actualy watched g1 under stand that optimus is a general and a warrior not a super hero

    A leader who will do what he has to when he has to.

    This is true in g1 , aligned, idw and the movies

    They all shown that theybare good people but willing do donwhat needs to be done for the greater good

    OPTIMUS IS NOT A PARAGON

    And never was
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  15. Bumblebee765

    Bumblebee765 Wrecker

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    I like the think that when he came back to life in Revenge of The Fallen that he didn't all come back, and that's why he's a bit...unhinged through the rest of the films.
    Also, I live for @Vangelus movie Prime discussions in the wtf@tfw movie talks. :lol 
     
  16. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

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    So the answer was yes

    Also you're talking to a guy who's read all the Tech Specs, every issue of Marvel US and *most* of Marvel UK, Dreamwave and IDW, and seen every single episode of the 1984 cartoon and Headmasters, for that matter. I know enough about "G1" to know that it doesn't just mean the third (or fourth Ladybird might have come first) continuity just because it was the most popular in the U.S.

    Oh and I've read the Ladybird books and know that the town the Witwickys are from is the fictional Kimball, Oregon. Not that any of that makes me an authority or grants me deeper insight than anyone else but I don't need my True Fan card checked on the subject of Generation fucking One continuities.

    And you're right! The G1 cartoon, like the movies, also had some ill considered moral implications and out of character moments for Prime. Sometimes. Occasionally. The difference is that the G1 cartoon was a cheaply produced toy commercial that had to wrap up every plot and restore the status quo in thirty minutes and was written by no name pulp sci-fi writers and cartoon mainstays for a paycheck to cover the lights for that month. The movies are, firstly, movies, so I hold them to a higher standard than television anyway (but I'm old fashioned), and secondly, incredibly expensive movies. I expect more thought and craft.

    Oh, and speaking of those Tech Specs;

     
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  17. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    "Optimus prime was always a paragagon guyys...except when he clearley wasnt...but those times dont count "

    :rolleyes: 

    Also good old bob also wrote ratchet was a party animal and prowl was spock neither of those mean dick when talking about g1 and there actual iconic personalities. But hey gotta cite those wikipedia articles you skimmed i guess.

    I suggest buying a box set and actualy getting aquainted with the characters.

    Also saying "well it was a cheap cartoon" is an admission of defeat, because if thats the case then who cares if they got it wrong, because it there was never any thing of quality to adapt in the first place.

    Any way when a characters most iconic moment is going on a rampage against the enemy, having a fatal showdown with his arch enemy, endiing in mocking said arch enemy befor readying to excute him, I dont think you can really hold on to the fantasy that optimus is superman, nor any one else really thinks of him that way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  18. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Superman also lost his patience and executed general Zod and this was before the modern or even before the dork extreeeme age of comic books. Batman snapped and drew a gun on Darkseid.

    What matters is how consistent is characterisation across the board and not only what's in moments of the character's weakness.

    Bayhemus Prime and the faction he's leading are so effin happy blowing the stuff up and taking heads that it makes one wonder if the moviemakers ever got it that the entire theme of the Autobots was supposed to be reluctant soldiers who fight because they have to... Not because a killing spree is the funniest and coolest thing ever.
     
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  19. Pichomp

    Pichomp Well-Known Member

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    :D :D :D 
     
  20. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

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    I'm saying those times are indicative of any authorial intent as much as they were oversights and examples of creators not giving a damn. Just like Bay's Prime

    Bob also wrote about Ratchets gruff bedside manner and Prowl's ultra-logical strategery. There's not a single example of either in the G1 cartoon (where Ratchet was the doctor and Prowl was just around and neither had personalities) but that's the basis of every single modern interpretation.

    A better example might be Bumblebee, who's bio accurately conveys his relationship to the other Autobots in all following media but does not mention humans or Earth once (Because that role had been meant for Hound, a toy that had a face and was not a gangly freak).

    The cartoon was very popular in this country, but again, it is at best an ancillary G1 continuity. It doesn't have Ladybird's beautiful artwork, the Tech Specs world building or the Marvel Comics' soap operatics. It is a low effort, low energy production that ended up being accessible to American children in the '80s

    I see Prime fighting a bunch of Decepticons without yelling weird shit and then taking a full minute waiting on Megatron to make a move when, if he'd wanted to, he could have shot him as soon as he picked up his gun. The fact that you people always bring up this scene is weird, it's nothing like Bays Prime
     
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