Since G1 had mass shifting...

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by MegaMoonMan, May 4, 2012.

  1. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan OFFICIAL MMM REP

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    Why did they even need combiners? Just make one guy that gets that huge in the first place.

    I know the answer is "because it's a cartoon to sell toys" but it's food for thought.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  2. Chris McFeely

    Chris McFeely Well-Known Member

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    The ability to shrink upon transformation does not necessarily equal the ability to voluntarily grow gigantic.
     
  3. jono83

    jono83 Well-Known Member

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    Some of them did grow huge in ALT mode Jetfire and Astrotrain for example
     
  4. 3.8TransAM

    3.8TransAM 1989 Turbo Trans AM

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    Mass shifting didn't affect all Transformers.

    It was like a special ability per say. Like Mirages invisibility, Hoists shield, Hounds holograms, yadda yadda.

    Some did, some did due to differing abilities
     
  5. TrueNomadSkies

    TrueNomadSkies Airachnid's ratservant

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    Plus, one could argue that since mass is simply being shifted around (aka, that more mass isn't actually being created), that being larger wouldn't make em stronger. If anything, it made some of em weaker (such as the Astrotrain example), so it makes sense for combiners to be large while also remaining very dense.
     
  6. -Mainframe-

    -Mainframe- Well-Known Member

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    Article


    Combiners did much more than mass-shifting. They combined personalities into one huge super robot. A weapon of mass-destruction.

    Article
     
  7. Macross7

    Macross7 Well-Known Member

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    Not in Soundwave's case. Spike would have to be Superman to pick up a 40 ton cassette player or Soundwave in robot mode would only weigh a pound.
     
  8. grimlock_king25

    grimlock_king25 Hail to the king, baby

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    Because let's be honest here. No matter how much we loved it, Nothing about the G1 cartoon made any sense. Just don't question it and enjoy the cheesy goodness.
     
  9. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    As I see it, mass-shift is directly tied to transforming (in guys with one mode at a much different size than the other(s) ), so changing size at will is out 'cause the systems "just don't work that way".

    As much else is wrong with "Carnage in C-Minor", I still love the whole Idea of Broadside switching to aircraft carrier mode to 'drop in' on Devastator. It ranks as a pretty creative use of modes and mass-shift beyond their primary purpose.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  10. ErbFan28

    ErbFan28 Well-Known Member

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    I hate mass shifting as it is. I'm glad they never did this
     
  11. spikex

    spikex Nightbird is my bitch

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    QFT
     
  12. TrueNomadSkies

    TrueNomadSkies Airachnid's ratservant

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    Soundwave's a tricky bugger. :D 
     
  13. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan OFFICIAL MMM REP

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    It's not about doing it at will, just make a guy that gets that big when he TFs. His alt mode could be huge and dense in the first place - but still small enough to hide and be mobile.

    Yeah, there's no real logic to it. It just seems like forcing a bunch of smaller guys to merge bodies and minds seems inefficient.

    EDIT: Changed the OP to relate the idea better.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  14. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Could be that the combiners are a gestalt entity, with power that increases geometrically or exponentially, rather than at the rate of increase you'd see in an up-sizing mass shifted bot. Or maybe there's an upper and lower limit to effective mass shifting in terms of energy or component functionality. Or maybe combining allows the teams to blend special abilities in a way that simply growing wouldn't, in a way that would be more tactically effective.
     
  15. PrimusVsUnicron

    PrimusVsUnicron Well-Known Member

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    this thread is dumb

    mass shifting wasn't part of the scprit if the show

    and it's a cartoon with no logic
     
  16. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan OFFICIAL MMM REP

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    Thanks for that intelligent well thought out response.
     
  17. scoobsterinc

    scoobsterinc Scoobs

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    It doesnt work that way mass shifting is a speacil ability for some transformers and they can only grow/shrink to a certain mass its like saying bumblebee would be the size of a skyscraper and then turning into a small car
     
  18. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    Personally I put special powers which I feel aren't probably mechanically or technologically based (such as Skywarp's teleporting) down to a quirk of their spark. This includes mass-shifting. However, to give it some kind of rule so TF aren't going big and small all over the place I have to also add a rule that the shifting is constrained by the new alt. If a TF with natural mass-shifting abilities scans an alt mode which is smaller than themselves then the reformat that follows will place that restriction on the natural mass-shifting ability.

    So Soundwave on Cybertron scans a lamppost for his alt mode. Because he's the same size as the post the reformat doesn't alter anything and he cannot mass-shift even if he wanted to. But then on Earth his tape deck alt is scanned and the reformat locks his natural mass-shifting ability which is affected by the scan data and reformat to only allow a shrink when going to alt mode and a grow when going back to robot mode. Basically the scan and reformat is a natural element of a TF's spark. Sure they developed the transforming ability centuries later but it was always there in their spark.
    I'll ignore the times Soundwave has been different sizes in tape deck mode. Same when Megatron in gun mode has been the right size for both TF and humans to use depending on the situation.
    I'll also chuck my rules in to explain for when Micromasters and MiniCons may have small robot modes but normal-sized alt modes.

    If a TF never scans an alt mode smaller than themselves then they'll never discover if they have a natural mass-shifting ability or not. And on rare occasions some TF have split natural mass-shifting spark ability if they happen to be a triplechanger and one of their alt modes is bigger than the other.

    So if a TF doesn't have a natural mass-shifting ability in their spark, if they try to trans-scan something too small or too big for a normal reformat to iron out the minimal differences the scan will be rejected by their systems and they'll have to find something else to scan.

    This is my personal explain-away for it and I know that G1 didn't really have any trans-scanning and reformatting but I'm retconning my personal shit. :) 
    It's a slightly clunky way around the inconsistencies of mass-shifting but it works well enough.

    Mostly though I just go 'he changes size when he transforms' and not let it bother me too much if it may fall outside the rules I made up.
     
  19. WhiteMocha

    WhiteMocha TFW2005 Supporter

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    Yet one more reason why mass-shifting is a terrible, ridiculous idea that never should have even existed in G1. Thankfully modern incarnations of the franchise have essentially abandoned it except in a couple cheaty cases.

    But please, minibot fans, continue to tell me how Powerglide should be shorter than Prowl. :rolleyes: 

    (FWIW, I think you COULD get away with mass-shifting if it were a specific "special power" that only a few bots possessed.... say Soundwave and Megatron. It could consume large amounts of energy and/or even be dangerous, so that they would use the ability sparingly and only when necessary. THAT I could get behind. But I don't like how in G1 everyone, even third-tier grunts like Hoist, can apparently casually mass-shift.)
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2012
  20. Gingerchris

    Gingerchris Telly-headed Tyrant

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    This part below of my rules accounts for that a bit:
    Ah, missed you adding this. I see you're open to some rules or sparky-based explanations. :) 
     

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