He woke up during Transport in the prequel novel, and they managed to freeze him again, why couldnt the same be done with other prisoners, especially highly damaged ones?

The whole "comrades hunting them down" thing also has problems when you dump their corpses in the deep ocean and they still go and get them and ressurrect them.

 

Exactly.

 

Okay...Well...I will end this thread, Or try since I started it.

Like everyone who said ''Blackout transformed so slow, and Optimus transformed so slow the first time for dramatic and cinematic reasons''

THAT'S WHY IT WAS SO BRUTAL, It would get people talking. Hence....yeah

 

autovolt 127 you have to remember that the 'cons wanted to take over the planet so the autobots had to kill them to save earth. i for one loved dotm and the violence.

 

It's not as much as the 80's as the fact that it's a cartoon. Your target audience is kids, so you have to keep it down.

 

where would you have them go, shove the frozen cons back into hoover dam, imagine all the time and resources it would take to make sure that they stayed frozen.

And onto the main topic, i'm pretty sure every Prime at some point has been like "fuck it imma kill'em" For instance in G1 Prime's " Megatron must be stopped no matter the cost" , and Primals "Speech this *punch*" there comes a time when diplomacy just wont work.

 

Since the humans had the Autobots as allies who says the frozen cons had to be stored on Earth? Some really cold places in our solar system where there is no danger of civilians being harmed by any attempted Con prison break.

 

Agreed.
We now have an Optimus for the grown-ups.

 

I actually like how the Autobots show no mercy.

 

I don't understand these debates. Michael Bay shat on the TFers, so nothing should be out of bounds.

As for the way they kill, it makes perfect sense. They are protecting the human race and destroyed all of Chiaago. What are you going to do, capture the Decepticons and promise to put them on their best behavior?

And in terms of the whole, look how violent they were. Really, what is a human way to kill? Give them some rust injections so they die painlessly?

I mean, really, this is Bayformers, this should not even be Transformers. Don't use TF logic on Bayformers.

I am sure Optimus, to prove to the humans that they are wrong would let multiple cities die. Yeah! Let's focus on that for a bit.

 

I just watched this movie for the first time a couple days ago, and your thoughts on it are pretty close to mine. It is a fundamental change in the nature of the Autobots, and the ending of TF3 felt forced to tie up loose ends and provide a superficial high point.

I was trying to imagine the events in this film changed in 2 ways, and the affect on movie-goers as a whole would, I think, be significant and support my perspective:

1) like the previous poster said, substitute Prime and Sentinel for another human hero and his foe. How many fans would still support this kind of behavior? Punisher, Charles Bronson, Deadpool, sure. But Spidey, Superman, Iron Man, or Batman? Forget it. Prime was more like the latter than the former in the 80s, as were the Autobots as a whole. Now I guess Prime's essentially Punisher, killing for vengeance.

2) if the music was modified so that it had tension and darkness in it instead of heroic bluster, 2 scenes would have been very different in the movie: a) the one where Prime says that he essentially allowed all those humans to die in order to prove a point; and b) the end after he murders Sentinel. The music alone could have made the audience view those actions as horrific and troubling rather than heroic and justifiable. Even the mouth-agape look on the humans would be construed as horror instead of inspired awe. When the music alone could make such a difference, something is wrong IMO.

But at the end of the day, I agree--the Bay-verse is just fundamentally different. I don't particularly like the Autobots as they exist in the Bay-verse. I don't think they're particularly heroic or noble considering some of the things they've done. But, that's a subjective opinion. If you like your heroes as amoral psychopaths, that's cool. I enjoy a good Punisher yarn myself from time to time. But Prime in that role? Doesn't work for me.

 

I blame the human overlords.

 

Not to mention technically he blew up the whole friggin plnet of CYBERTRON!! seriously war is war and we have to do what we must to survive even if we aren't proud of it.

 

If thats the reason they did these characters a dis-service.

He wasnt any more brutal in the comics either

 

I will compare it to Duke in the GI-Joe cartoon.

Lets say the new 2012 movie has him going around assassinating cobra agents after they were captured or injured.


Would he still be a badass or a murderer?

 

This is a fictional setting, so the only boundaries, especially in a universe populated by reconfiguring space robots, are the limits of the writers imagination.

Who's to say the Decepticons couldn't be imprisoned? The whole N.E.S.T. thing seemed to be working pretty well, bureaucratic issues aside, and the Autobots had spacefaring capability, they could have simply launched the Decepticons into deep space (which, granted, is a lot like dumping them in the ocean).

Hell, we even saw a few Decepticons switching sides over the course of the movies, maybe some could have been rehabilitated. Or reprogrammed. Even if Prime showed reluctance or remorse at executing his prisoners, it would have been better. A few lines of dialogue could have completely changed his characterization, and the tone of the entire action. Think of what it would have said about Prime and his beliefs if before killing Sentinel, who was decrying him for not putting his own race first, Prime had said "This is their world, they need the freedom to make their own choices, like we made ours. We don't belong here," or something similar.

There is a world of difference between G1 prime's speech AND Primal's dismissal. You're right in that there's a time to fight, and the reasons used to justify that counterviolence are extremely important. G1 Prime's speech talked about his willingness to sacrifice himself to stop Megatron's slaughter of the soldiers he led, and Primal's laconic response was an act of defiance towards an arrogant, gloating enemy bent on destroying all Primal's ancestors had fought to build. Neither were calling on their troops to "kill them all".

Yes, nothing is more mature and grown-up than brutal violence and black-and-white morality.

 

In order to match the scenes in the TF movies, those Cobra agents have to be capable of regenerating any damage to their bodies, literally pull weapons out of nowhere, and be physically incapable of being detained.

 

It sure as hell aint for the kiddies, right?

 

''Autobots wage their battle to DESTROY the evil forces of...The decepticons''

Thread closed, Discussion OVER, the G1 theme song CLEARLY proves my point

 

If you said "it's not the 80's" then why bother bringing this up now?
Plus it also goes back to what was mentioned earlier. It was the way that the Decepticons were brutally killed by Prime and the other Autobots, rather than the fact that they killed them. There's plenty of ways to "destroy" someone, not just ripping out someone's face/head/limbs etc...

Then what difference is there between them and the Decepticons other than the fact that they protect humans? I thought that they're supposed to be better than that. This is why I honestly ended up disliking the Autobots in the movieverse. It's like they go around preaching how they're "peaceful and just" they are and then do a face-heel turn on everything they said and butcher their enemies in the cruelest ways possible. I'm sorry, something just seems off a bit there...