Okay, we all know that between rising raw-material costs, currency deflation, and other factors, Hasbro is under increasing pressure to deliver products of the same quality they have in the past. Eventually push comes to shove, and you have to cut back on something.

I was struck by this when I picked up HFTD Battle Blades Optimus recently. First impression was it felt like a deluxe.

It really does feel like a substantially smaller toy compared with the previous voyager. Smaller in virtually every dimension.



It almost seems like there's a whole size class between it and the TF1 Voyager.



But then we come to pics of the new DOTM Voyager - and it's smaller again!





Then we have exhibit B:



More evidence:



So there's two ways of looking at this: is Mechtech an attempt to compensate for this shrinkage... or is it to blame for yet further shrinkage?

Thoughts? Any other examples? On the plus side, at least they're getting a little better at reducing kibble and integrating more of the altmode into the botmode, somewhat minimizing the damage. If these new figures had giant backpacks, they'd be shorter still.

 

Shrinkage? Sounds like a personal problem.

No seriously though,I brought this issue up a while ago,but you explained it much better than I did.

 

i like the idear of smaller transformers to be honest they take up less room and they look nicer but as long as they dont take away from the toy it self

 

I hate to agree with you Bumble but its 100% true what you said,I figure in a couple more years every TF will be downsized one size,like voyagers will be the size of deluxes,scouts will become legend size,and legends will be minicon size.But the bad part is they will still keep there size class status,but sold at the price they are now.

Finally instead of seeing roughly a 6 inch Deluxe figure it will be a 4 inch deluxe if we're lucky.Damn it sucks in this economy these days.

 

I don't mind smaller toys either, but I'd really prefer the prices reflect the change in size.

Of course, complexity of the figure should also be factored in. BB Prime is way more complex than tm1 voyager Prime. On the other hand the new prime looks to be a step back in complexity from bb prime, so idk.

Edit: haven't really looked at the new ironhide, but damn that looks so much better than the older one

 

I think at least some of this is ignoring the whole idea of mass conversion. Granted, I haven't weighed either 2007 Voy Prime or BB Optimus, but I'm sure some of the reason why the latter is shorter/smaller is due to how the thing transforms in contrast to the older toy. Also, the newer DOTM Voyager Prime has a bunch of the toy's mass in those very large fuel tanks and the enormous mechtech cannon (which you'll note isn't shown in this thread). Skids is similar - the older toy had no extra parts, whereas the new one has a fairly large (for a deluxe toy) gun. I don't think I can say this for Ironhide, though - while his vehicle mode seems roughly the same size, the bot mode is much more lithe (though I'd say that's an improvement) and he has only one (admittedly large) cannon as opposed to two.

 

My guess is that the smaller sizes may be compensating for the extra amount of plastics going into the mechtech weaponry. And as a byproduct of shrinkage, the complexity is taking a hit as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they base size classes not on height, but on the amount of plastic used? It seems that I read that somewhere once befoe, but can't cite my references.

 

Looks like Octavious and I were thinking basically the same thing at the same time lol...something about great minds.....

 

I don't think so. I think it's an intentional shift in design, because ROTF toys were too damn complex for their primary demographic.

 

Yeah, seems like the large, semi-complex weapon accessories are causing the main robot toys to take a hit in size/mass. Reminds me a little of Classics or hydro/jetpack Animated Bumblebee, though those were examples of designing in an accessory for the purpose of making the robot toy a certain size.

As for the complexity, looks like DOTM will be the "Armada" of the movie lines - not that they will be bad (though some will undoubtedly think so), but consciously less complex and with greater gimmicks/play value, to keep the kids (and parents) happier.

 

I agree with Valkysas they are making the figures more kid friendly as getting many sales as possible is more important than ever in this economy. my guess is that they Believe most collectors will consider the ROTF figures as their definitive versions. Honestly i would love to be a fly on the wall at the design meetings for Hasbro and Takara.

 

I wonder if we happen to be seeing Just the smaller toys in the line. We haven't seen comparisons of the Dread/Starscream/Wrecker/ or the HA Basics yet.

I hope its not a line wide thing, because I prefer to get bang for my buck when buying a toy.

 

I think Feralstorm's got it. Mechtech is hogging some of the plastic alloted to each toy, so the main figure is smaller.

Armada's a great example of what's going on. If you look at each movie line, they've kind of done everything but a gimmick-heavy kid line. ROTF was about as movie-accurate as you could hope for, especially in the case of characters like Bumblebee and Optimus.

So Hasbro's already made a nearly screen-accurate Optimus and Bumblebee, what's next? Make those characters fun plaything, apparently.

Keep in mind that if the size classes were shrinking for cost alone, you'd see more shrinkage in the Generations/RTS lines. But that's not happening. Jazz is one of the taller Classics-style deluxes. And while Tracks, G2 Optimus and Scourge are short, Kup, Blurr, Drift and Wreck-Gar are tall. There's just no data suggesting a brand-wide trend toward smaller figures.

 

Well corporate america for you...downsize product,raise price....you see it all the time...look @ the 99 cent bag of chips, now looks like the 30 cents bags....

But I do agree that it gears more to the kids this time around...for us we got Generations/RtS lines...

 

I wonder if they continue to downsize figures, will the boxes begin to seem ridiculously oversized. One of these days I'm going to turn onto the aisle and laugh my head off.

If there's enough shrinkage, it'll start to look like swapage. "Hey look some joker's returned a deluxe starscream in a voyager box. Oh wait, that is voyager Starscream"

I believe it goes on the amount of plastic involved, the amount of parts/assembly involved, and the amount of paint involved.

They also have to consider box size, which depending on what mode it's packaged in can affect planes with large wingspans and to some degree, height. This is why deluxe Lockdown can be packaged in car mode and end up taller than most voyagers.

But I do feel like there's substantially less material involved in the example I gave between a voyager from 2007, and a voyager from 2010. I don't think there's any question about that. So even if the overall amount of plastic involved remains unchanged, DOTM figures will still have to use some of that for the Mechtech.

It looks to me that while there was a drive for screen-accuracy with the ROTF line, on DOTM they are focusing more on efficient transformations and ease of posability.

It does seem though, if they're limited by the amount of parts they can use, that Mechtech will limit the amount of parts available for the figure itself, and thus the complexity.

 

Personally, I think it's an attempt by Hasbro to try and keep the base size class prices the same, instead of raising the price every couple of years like they theoretically should be doing.

Though I do have to correct you on one thing. While the new Skids is shorter, it's not smaller. If you look at it's legs, they now hold much more bulk than his previous mold does.

 

that new ironhide looks good.

but i'd like it more if it was the same size as the current deluxe in his alt mode...

how do you feel about that?

 

*scrutinized picture*

You may be onto something. Their chests look the same size.

 

I dont agree with getting less bot for my buck. Chances are I'll be storing the MT guns. So far only Primes looks decent... Megs looks part of the alt mode, so it stays, too...

But as long as the figure is well engineered and dosnt cost to much, I'll buy one.

I like a few big bots, voyagers especially. But the deluxe class is the sweet spot...

As soon as Hasbro took ROTF Leader Prime and KO downsized him into BB OP, it's all over now... There will be fewer big bots and more smaller, more affordable TFs.

Look at the change is design for the basics and now the legends class. Better and better... The ROTF had some awesome basic scout class figs. Knockout, Breacher and Firetrap are so well designed. I think the smaller class figs will evolve more and more...

 

Bugs me. I was hoping he'd be a bit bigger. I'm still on my original TFTM Ironhide (with a head swap because the sculpt there was lacking)- he looked great next to TFTM Prime and BB. The great BB and Prime from ROTF are both significantly larger. Suddenly he's a munchkin. If they'd made him bigger, he would have been an automatic buy. At this size, I'm not sure he's enough nicer to warrant a purchase.

(and have you seen the overhead shot of his bed? it appears to just be a very large hole the ground is visible through- I'm really hoping it's mistranformed or has a part to resolve this.)